Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[whoami]

relly as far as haste there is a very limited amount of ways to faste
whm/rdm haste spell 15% 3 minutes
smn hastega 10-15% 1.5-3 minutes
brd marchI 9% march II 11% (roughly)
sam hasso -10% delay (no tp reduction does relly count for haste though)
blu 10% for 5 mintues every 15/17.5/20 minutes.
dnc haste samaba 5% delay reuction (no tp penility)

when we just look at haste and not reduction relly theres only 2 sources of reliable haste.
Brd will always use a march and its stacks with haste spell and smn cant relly relied on for hastega all the time while blu has a long recast timer to hastega as well. That relly on leaves us with whm and rdm for haste spell. Thats very limited when you think about it cause only brd whm and rdm can be relied on haste. thats just 3/20 jobs or 15%. now if sch got haste spell we would have 4/20 or 20% thats a much better % to make partys with so more people can get exp.

[BRP]

I only disappointed that Scholar didn't end up being a buffer for mages. I'd like it if they got Refresh(but not Haste), be able to boost their storm spells like they can their helix with an ability, and best of all apply their stratagems to other mages. Maybe a JA that can boost SC damage too. They don't feel "tactician-ly" enough.

[ruf]

No, I do understand how haste works, how useful it is, etc. But saying "There are only three jobs that can do it, more are needed" seems kind of off, to me at least. How many jobs out of the 20 can you rely on for refresh? 3. For haste? 3. I guess what I'm getting at is I disagree with the idea in general that making more jobs fill nearly the exact same role is necessary. If gear/merits makes SCH an impressive DOT job even on HNM, it will have it's place. Doesn't need to be RDM v.2.

[Lordender]

SCH was advertised as "THE subjob" for mages when the job was first showcased @ osaka. This sub(currently) fails really bad for blm because of no inherent stoneskin/blink which is needed in most situations. I leveled sch to 37 anyway incase SE gives it some love in a patch or two.

[Lordwafik]

SCH was advertised as "THE subjob" for mages when the job was first showcased @ osaka. This sub(currently) fails really bad for blm because of no inherent stoneskin/blink which is needed in most situations. I leveled sch to 37 anyway incase SE gives it some love in a patch or two.

Yep.

It also isn't anything special for RDM, aside from the "Save half MP once per 4mins" or "Save half spellcast time once per 4 mins". I probably would never use them. It offers nothing that /whm or /blm can't do aside from Regen2, big whoop. The only place I see it being useful is in a situation where there are no status effects and everyone needs only heals (so uh colibri camp and what else? <_> ).

SE forget why people have subjobs. The biggest reason that most people don't realize is a subjob exists to help with survival.

/nin offers shadows
/rdm offers stoneskin/blink gravity
/whm offers stoneskin/blink status removal
/smn useless for BLM(guess why!) , useless for RDM, decent for WHM due to auto-refresh (which now /sch > it if you are casting a lot, idling a lot /smn is better)

how or why would I want to /sch on blm? or on rdm? or even on bard? I think they should have advertized it as "perfect subjobs for white mages only".

[Ohemgee]

Is /SCH the same MND as /SMN (for WHM's sake)

[Spekkio]

SCH was advertised as "THE subjob" for mages when the job was first showcased @ osaka. This sub(currently) fails really bad for blm because of no inherent stoneskin/blink which is needed in most situations. I leveled sch to 37 anyway incase SE gives it some love in a patch or two.

Yep.

It also isn't anything special for RDM, aside from the "Save half MP once per 4mins" or "Save half spellcast time once per 4 mins". I probably would never use them. It offers nothing that /whm or /blm can't do aside from Regen2, big whoop. The only place I see it being useful is in a situation where there are no status effects and everyone needs only heals (so uh colibri camp and what else? <_> ).

SE forget why people have subjobs. The biggest reason that most people don't realize is a subjob exists to help with survival.

/nin offers shadows
/rdm offers stoneskin/blink gravity
/whm offers stoneskin/blink status removal
/smn useless for BLM(guess why!) , useless for RDM, decent for WHM due to auto-refresh (which now /sch > it if you are casting a lot, idling a lot /smn is better)

how or why would I want to /sch on blm? or on rdm? or even on bard? I think they should have advertized it as "perfect subjobs for white mages only".

there might be a narrow realm of uses for it to bolster a rdm's poor native dark magic (or a VERY slight boost to their elemental magic) but yeah. i think you hit the nail on the head. i'm a taru blm. i know better than anyone that regardless of having 50 or 500 MP left when you die, you're still dead. sch may have some specialized applications for any of the above jobs, but it's by no means the unilateral "ultimate subjob" for them.

[whoami]

my rdm is onyl 50 but for rdm outside soloing its relly bad. mostly because the arts will hinder you on what ever actiong you would take at a event. Use dark arts to nuke/drain/aspir better but then you refresh and haste timers take a penility to them. use light arts and now your elemental enfeebles and dark magic take a penility to them as well. outside of rdm/sch for merit with no na's its relly bad overall unless rdm only has to refresh them selves and maybe 1-2 people tops. for whm its between smn and blm for saving mp.

/smn is 200 mp a minute which is mp coming in and cuts rest time down

/sch your looking at 120 mp from 50% off two spell (every 4-5 minutes) and 10% off other spells i dont feel like math crunching but you have to rest at some point it just extends that time. though if you got aspir for decent returns every 2 minutes (say 15 mp gained each cast) you would get ahead of smn on mp saved over time. (10% +120+ 75 mp on aspir gained)

/blm 8% saved over time randomly just extends the time you rest

anyways im hoping there's going to be a adjustment to the wether boost and helices and possibly stoneskin added later to relly make /sch and sch shine more then current. if they id it for cor i can see them doing it for sch with a decent chance.

[Tsukuyomi]

for whm its between smn and blm for saving mp.

/smn is 200 mp a minute which is mp coming in and cuts rest time down

/sch your looking at 120 mp from 50% off two spell (every 4-5 minutes) and 10% off other spells i dont feel like math crunching but you have to rest at some point it just extends that time. though if you got aspir for decent returns every 2 minutes (say 15 mp gained each cast) you would get ahead of smn on mp saved over time. (10% +120+ 75 mp on aspir gained)

/blm 8% saved over time randomly just extends the time you rest

anyways im hoping there's going to be a adjustment to the wether boost and helices and possibly stoneskin added later to relly make /sch and sch shine more then current. if they id it for cor i can see them doing it for sch with a decent chance.

I haven't had the chance to actually test SCH yet as a sub to my WHM, but isn't light arts supposed to give you that slight fast cast on related spells as a sub too? If it actually does, it's another positive thing about it. Also the boost to enhancing skill gives you a few more points on barspells, it isn't a *huge* difference but still useful, I carry 3 pieces of equipment on me for a +4 on barspells usually XD (and I would bring more if only I had the sea cape D: ). If aspir manages to land decently in places like Dynamis (and I think it should with the help of anrin obi and a few +skill items) /SCH could easily be better than /SMN for those situations.

[Kaslo]

SCH was advertised as "THE subjob" for mages when the job was first showcased @ osaka. This sub(currently) fails really bad for blm because of no inherent stoneskin/blink which is needed in most situations. I leveled sch to 37 anyway incase SE gives it some love in a patch or two.

Yep.

It also isn't anything special for RDM, aside from the "Save half MP once per 4mins" or "Save half spellcast time once per 4 mins". I probably would never use them. It offers nothing that /whm or /blm can't do aside from Regen2, big whoop. The only place I see it being useful is in a situation where there are no status effects and everyone needs only heals (so uh colibri camp and what else? <_> ).

Um... Nyzle Isle Mamool Ja's? The only thing that could hit you is random blu debuffs and nin debuffs but I don't remember ppl getting hit with them >.>

But just make one of your 2 bards come /whm and your fine ;D

[ruf]

Regen 2 on rdm (dunno if that is the case /sch or what) would be enough to make me prefer rdm over whm at merits. As it is having regens makes it easier to haste all melee and keep people alive alongside keeping MP. But it feels like we're seriously talking the SCH subjob thing in circles.

Edit: checked, yeah regen 2 is 37.

[Pergo]

if only there was blink/stoneskin/sleep, i'd really have no problem subbing sch on whm or blm... i really enjoy the subtle fast cast that comes with light/dark arts

[LD]

Regen 2 on rdm would be enough to make me prefer rdm over whm at merits.

Ummmm......

[Wizerd]

if only there was blink/stoneskin/sleep, i'd really have no problem subbing sch on whm or blm... i really enjoy the subtle fast cast that comes with light/dark arts

You mean like... Blink/Stoneskin/Repose? SCH is already the new WHM sub, but that's about the only job that it's super useful for. BLM and SMN sub offer absolutely nothing in comparison in any normal situation. There's no way auto-refresh or conserve MP can kick out Light Arts (and the ability to Aspir certain things with decent accuracy), especially when you use big spells such as Raise III or Reraise III mid-battle or at low MP.

[ruf]

Regen 2 on rdm would be enough to make me prefer rdm over whm at merits.

Ummmm......

What? I know whm has regen 3, but the ability to do a higher regen than 5hp/tick and still have be able to refresh myself and convert would make rdm more preferred by myself personally. That being the case, once I level sch to 37, I'll probably merit rdm/sch instead of whm when I don't feel like meritting on brd. As it is, I hate having to rely on straight cures instead of MP-saving regen that I get on whm. Not totally sure what the umm was about.

edit: Guess I wasn't clear. It would make me prefer to come as rdm over whm at merits, which currently isn't the case.

[Delekii]

Regen 2 on rdm would be enough to make me prefer rdm over whm at merits.

Ummmm......

edit: Guess I wasn't clear. It would make me prefer to come as rdm over whm at merits, which currently isn't the case.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................................. ...........

[Pergo]

if only there was blink/stoneskin/sleep, i'd really have no problem subbing sch on whm or blm... i really enjoy the subtle fast cast that comes with light/dark arts

You mean like... Blink/Stoneskin/Repose? SCH is already the new WHM sub, but that's about the only job that it's super useful for. BLM and SMN sub offer absolutely nothing in comparison in any normal situation. There's no way auto-refresh or conserve MP can kick out Light Arts (and the ability to Aspir certain things with decent accuracy), especially when you use big spells such as Raise III or Reraise III mid-battle or at low MP.

yeah, i just feel weird not having regular sleep (sleepga) or warp/escape.. i still need to get used to it thats all

[Max™]

Wait, /Smn Auto-Refresh is 200 MP per Minute?

Is that right? That doesn't seem right.

[ruf]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................................. ...........

Good point I guess.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Wait, /Smn Auto-Refresh is 200 MP per Minute?

Is that right? That doesn't seem right.

More like 20 >_>