Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[LD]

Did everyone that asked for utility spells miss the fact that it's subjob dependant? I highly doubt SE will give them many spells that people are hoping for, for fear of the job becoming too powerful, too soon. At endgame, a few things can be confirmed already about SCH:

1) Has the best AoE Stoneskin.
2) Has Elemental nukes on par with RDM.
3) Has the better AoE Enspellage than SMN.
4) Can main heal and sub heal better than SMN and BLU (and still deal out damage).
5) Can add 10% Potency and Accuracy to all mages, including themselves.
6) Has strong DoTs that can be used during kiting.
7) Can AoE Aspir during select endgame situations (like dynamis and limbus).
8 ) Can AoE Gravity and Paralyze during select situations.

The only set backs are justified, if you really think about it. I wouldn't want a job that had AoE Haste, SS, Refresh, and Dispel all on one job. I'd be like a RDM rehash, and break the job. If they add this stuff to SCH, they'd need to boost RDM and BRD more.

I disagree, the problem seems to be it makes it TOO SJ dependant. The entirety of its support ability lies in its subbed spells, and the job was pegged to be more flexible than that. It doesn't need native refresh by a long shot, nor does it need dispel (hell, native gravity is pushing it a little bit, its subbable by lvl 42), but haste would give the job a real edge while still being restricted by charge timers (which are 4x longer than an unbuffed SMN's BPs.) Giving us a new Hastega'r would not marginalize RDM, because it would still have Refresh AND Convert, it would just make SCH more practical in Merits and in general.

Native Stoneskin is mostly for the benefit of /SCH, and it can't -ga it until lvl 40, which is not all that much earlier than Earthen Ward. It may be more powerful and slightly cheaper, but it can't be used as often as Diamondhide & Earthen Ward. It would give it a (much needed) boost in the mid-levels, but would become a non-issue at high levels, when people are mostly subbing /WHM or /RDM anyway (including the SCH.)

It can't Aspirga or Paralyzega, Manifestation only works on Black Magic Enfeebling spells. Aspir is Dark Magic and Paralyze is White Magic.


SS & Haste are the only two spells that NEED to be added to give SCH any kind of practicality (as a sub and in merits, respectively.) Beyond that, the only thing that would be nice would be the last two regen spells to make it a better, more unique healer.

[Dreampainter]

It can't Aspirga or Paralyzega, Manifestation only works on Black Magic Enfeebling spells. Aspir is Dark Magic and Paralyze is White Magic.

Well paralyga obviously doesn't work because its a white magic spell, but aspirga definately works and its really awesome, I've tried it many times now in parties where we slept a beetle link near the party. All dark magic spells seem to work with manifestation including drain.

[Xanthe]

It can't Aspirga or Paralyzega, Manifestation only works on Black Magic Enfeebling spells. Aspir is Dark Magic and Paralyze is White Magic.

Well paralyga obviously doesn't work because its a white magic spell, but aspirga definately works and its really awesome, I've tried it many times now in parties where we slept a beetle link near the party. All dark magic spells seem to work with manifestation including drain.

One of my friends does Manifestation > Aspir on charmed players in Undead Besieged. Now there's some good lulz.

[Max™]

It can't Aspirga or Paralyzega, Manifestation only works on Black Magic Enfeebling spells. Aspir is Dark Magic and Paralyze is White Magic.

Well paralyga obviously doesn't work because its a white magic spell, but aspirga definately works and its really awesome, I've tried it many times now in parties where we slept a beetle link near the party. All dark magic spells seem to work with manifestation including drain.

One of my friends does Manifestation > Aspir on charmed players in Undead Besieged. Now there's some good lulz.

lol, ask them to Manifest > Drain next time and SS it.

[LD]

Hmm, interesting. I always thought it was unfair that Accession worked with 2 types of spells and Manifestation didn't. Kind of a large thing to omit in a description, though.

So it should work with Stun & Bio, though no one is going to want Bioga (unless it's something like Blitzkrieg), and subbing DRK is much less desirable than the mage jobs (though it DOES give sleep and bind.) Wonder if it works with absorbs....

[Max™]

Saddened to hear that Dispelga doesn't work.

[Fors]

I was doing Aspir-ga on beetles for fun while plvling my pt on the desert.

[kenwongf11]

I just dinged 53 last night and am now ready for the ToAU exp orgasm train :D but I wanted to add a few things about SCH as a main healer:

3) While we do not get haste, the enspellga tactic continues to shine in party situation. At 52, melees now get 6 additional damage per hit with it (with PLDs hitting for 12) and combined with 3-4 dual wielders, you're adding almost 50 extra damage to a mob each attack round (even better if the mob has high defense like crabs). The fact that it lasts more than 4 minutes and costs 36 MP under Accession makes it an incredibly useful ability.

If pt have Dnc, enspellga will make dnc's samba lose effect.
Between Haste Samba and enspellga, only can choose 1.:/

[Starless]

Hmm, interesting. I always thought it was unfair that Accession worked with 2 types of spells and Manifestation didn't. Kind of a large thing to omit in a description, though.

So it should work with Stun & Bio, though no one is going to want Bioga (unless it's something like Blitzkrieg), and subbing DRK is much less desirable than the mage jobs (though it DOES give sleep and bind.) Wonder if it works with absorbs....

I had a giggly fantasy about Absorb-INTga on a plethora of mobs and absorbing 50 something INT. Then I remember it was DRK 39.

[Shadowhusky]

So I don't know if this has been discussed or tested...But with weather effects active on a person (Let's say wind), and they're wielding a weapon (Say Garuda's Dagger) that the added affect procs 100% on winds day. Would wind weather at all affect the proc rate on the dagger?

Now that I think about it, makes sense it wouldn't...But could this apply to other weapons?

[LD]

Saddened to hear that Dispelga doesn't work.

Seriously? It's a Black Magic Enfeebling spell. :[

[Delekii]

So I don't know if this has been discussed or tested...But with weather effects active on a person (Let's say wind), and they're wielding a weapon (Say Garuda's Dagger) that the added affect procs 100% on winds day. Would wind weather at all affect the proc rate on the dagger?

Now that I think about it, makes sense it wouldn't...But could this apply to other weapons?

Since weather spells give a weather effect, I would assume that any weather induced proc would work just fine. Weather and days are different entities, however.

[Max™]

Saddened to hear that Dispelga doesn't work.

Seriously? It's a Black Magic Enfeebling spell. :[

I've yet to read differently, anyone tried to Dispelga, or did they just read that it doesn't work somewhere and give up?

[Plight]

Dispelga works. Just cast it on a Forest Hare in East Ronfaure [S] and hit a Carrion Worm right next to it.

[Max™]

Dispelga works. Just cast it on a Forest Hare in East Ronfaure [S] and hit a Carrion Worm right next to it.

Awesome, awesome to the max.

Of course, that shit will get you RAPED, as Dispel gives what, 320 Millinazi's (yeah, Kaeko's, but Millinazi's makes me smile) of hate?

[Plight]

Though the hate would presumably be divided up amongst the targets so it wouldn't get you any more hate from X mob than a normal dispel?

[Max™]

Though the hate would presumably be divided up amongst the targets so it wouldn't get you any more hate from X mob than a normal dispel?

That would be awesome if it spread the hate around.

Lethal if not.

Fun to watch either way.

The reason I say it's lethal is, if the mobs are slept, then you've put yourself right up there with the Sleeper on the hate list, and if they aren't slept, you gon' get raped.

[Delekii]

Though the hate would presumably be divided up amongst the targets so it wouldn't get you any more hate from X mob than a normal dispel?

I seriously doubt it gets divided.

Anyway, in terms of safety of the group as a whole, it's much better that the hate is on someone other than the sleeper, since it's much easier to reapply sleep if you and getting smashed. Not as good for the scholar of course..

[Plight]

Sorry if it was unclear; I meant divided as in the 320 units per mob, rather than some extra hate for being AoE.

[Wizerd]

Though the hate would presumably be divided up amongst the targets so it wouldn't get you any more hate from X mob than a normal dispel?

I seriously doubt it gets divided.

Anyway, in terms of safety of the group as a whole, it's much better that the hate is on someone other than the sleeper, since it's much easier to reapply sleep if you and getting smashed. Not as good for the scholar of course..

Maybe not, but the Scholar can do Manifestation > Dispelga for hate, followed by Manifestation > Bindga or Graviga (depending on which they feel more comfortable with or other conditions) to keep the mobs from moving much, while the sleeper re-applies sleep. It's not too hard to keep track of a minute and a half, to know when to cast the second spell.

Remember, Scholars can store up to 3 charges at lv70+.