Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Ryushii]

There is absolutely a time issue. I thought that was proved already? Isn't there even a formula to figure out the max exp per a certain time limit?

[Toth]

Ah, that explains it. The times when I have gotten such low exp have been when the battle ends shortly after I arrive. Good to know.

[Kaeko]

Tabula Rasa not only gives you infinite charges for 1 minute, but it also fully recharges any used charges.

Example:

I used up 3 charges and the /recast now says 12:00 (0)
Tabula Rasa Used
Now says on recast 0:00 (3)
Minute up of infinite charges
Still says on recast 0:00 (3) and can use 3 more charges immediately.

[rydiu sucks]

yeah, it's nice to use if you're in an emergency and need charges.

but all I've determined right now from scholar is:

If you've got RDM, BLM, or WHM75, you're better off playing one of those instead when it comes down to it.

I've toyed around with Scholar at a couple different things, and it's just really weak compared its more specialized counterparts. Storms and Helices are not enough to save the day for me at the moment.

Oh well, we'll see. I'm still continuing to buy specialized pieces for it (hi2u genie gages) and finally get my freaking yigit, but I just don't see the job being good (cor all over again) until SE decides to buff it like it should be.

To be quite honest, if I had access to almost all white magics with Light Arts active, and NO Black Magic spells at all, and vice versa... I don't think it'd be that overpowered. The 1min timer is hard enough to deal with on Red Mage at times. But I doubt they'll do something that drastic.

[Levi]

I agree with "rydiu sucks"

Last week I dinged 75. I Also posted this on another forum:

"I think the initial release of sch is not great... It's pretty useless in endgame stuff like Dynamis.
The so called "Heavy dot" spells suck and you won't notice the dot at all with melee wacking the mobs.

Only good thing about sch is the weather spells for the BLM, those are great. But usually there's no place for a sch in a blm pt so there you go...
Also the weather effect lasts to short and the recast time is to long.

I hope SE will fix sch and make it more meaningfull.. for now sch is only good for subjob and maybe some small events. "

I think I won't touch sch again till we get a good update.

[Wizerd]

Simple solution: Give Scholar a new spell that reflects their mastery of battle tactics.

I'm thinking of Regain.

- Lv58.
- 2 minute duration like Refresh / Ballad.
- 1 minute recast to prevent overpowering by casting on too many people.
- 35 or 40 mp cost.
- 2TP/tick.

It could be 3TP/tick, but I think it'd need to be changed to a 45-50 mp cost if that were the case. If Regain is introduced as a spell, Scholar certainly makes the most sense to get it.

I figured lv58 because it's directly between the weather spells and the helices, and it's about the point when the really needs that extra utility to continue as a real mage. It's also smack dab in the level range where no one gets anything very special to enhance the speed of parties (unless I'm missing something). The 60s are the worst levels when leveling any job, in terms of tediousness, so this would definitely help through those levels.

Opinions?

[Araius]

The flood of SCH leveling would be too much to bear, but that would be hot.

[Kyreth]

I was pleasantly surprised at the boost I was getting with Firestorm...in Besieged...with a L43 BLM/WHM.

Suddenly, my Fire II's were landing respectable (for Besieged) damage. I kept pestering the SCH for rebuffs whenever possible. He's got the Ice one now, looking forward to teaming up with him in Campaign with my RDM and seeing how well it works.

[Sho]

Hopefully SE will be generous and give SCH Tier IV, Raise II, an increased DoT tick duration and merits all with this coming update. I can't really see them giving SCH debuffs like Slow and Paralyze unless they are all over lvl 35+, people with no native skill would be able to sub it and land those important debuffs with very little trouble. Might be over my head tho, at the grand scheme of things, however.

[Max™]

Given that Sch got Blau instead of Dnc, I would not be surprised to see Sch get Regain.

I would not mind having someone keeping a Regain tic on me full time in a meripo, I would not mind it at all.

[Custom M]

And change sword enchantment spell calculation for people without enhancing skilll~

[Levi]

I was pleasantly surprised at the boost I was getting with Firestorm...in Besieged...with a L43 BLM/WHM.

Suddenly, my Fire II's were landing respectable (for Besieged) damage. I kept pestering the SCH for rebuffs whenever possible. He's got the Ice one now, looking forward to teaming up with him in Campaign with my RDM and seeing how well it works.

Yeah BLM love the weather spells.. I tested the weather spells with a small group of BLM.. after that they wanted weather spells all the time

Another thing: who cares about DOT these days? ppl want to kill mobs as fast as possible and want to see high numbers of dmg... not some slow DOT spell which is resisted most of the time (especially on endgame mobs). It's just a waste of mp and noone cares.. Helix fails imho.

[Sho]

I was pleasantly surprised at the boost I was getting with Firestorm...in Besieged...with a L43 BLM/WHM.

Suddenly, my Fire II's were landing respectable (for Besieged) damage. I kept pestering the SCH for rebuffs whenever possible. He's got the Ice one now, looking forward to teaming up with him in Campaign with my RDM and seeing how well it works.

Yeah BLM love the weather spells.. I tested the weather spells with a small group of BLM.. after that they wanted weather spells all the time

Another thing: who cares about DOT these days? ppl want to kill mobs as fast as possible and want to see high numbers of dmg... not some slow DOT spell which is resisted most of the time (especially on endgame mobs). It's just a waste of mp and noone cares.. Helix fails imho.

People said COR's Quick Draw failed when it was first released. Give it time for SCH and helix spells.

[Delekii]

People said COR's Quick Draw failed when it was first released. Give it time for SCH and helix spells.

What people said that? QD was fucking OP from day one, when it worked on elegy, then it got toned down...

[LD]

Hopefully SE will be generous and give SCH Tier IV, Raise II, an increased DoT tick duration and merits all with this coming update. I can't really see them giving SCH debuffs like Slow and Paralyze unless they are all over lvl 35+, people with no native skill would be able to sub it and land those important debuffs with very little trouble. Might be over my head tho, at the grand scheme of things, however.

The only way I can see SE giving SCH tier 4 nukes would be through G2s in some sort of 'Black Magic package', and that's a long way off. R2, however, is more likely, since R1 is early enough on SCH's list for it to fit. I doubt they'd give SCH slow & par, all the jobs that are able to cast Enfeebling spells normally already have some native skill in it, not every job needs to go from 0 skill to an automatic B+. If they make SCH worth subbing by giving it SS, I don't think BLM needs any more toys. Helixes, I'm not really sure about yet...

[Lordwafik]

Simple solution: Give Scholar a new spell that reflects their mastery of battle tactics.

I'm thinking of Regain.

- Lv58.
- 2 minute duration like Refresh / Ballad.
- 1 minute recast to prevent overpowering by casting on too many people.
- 35 or 40 mp cost.
- 2TP/tick.

It could be 3TP/tick, but I think it'd need to be changed to a 45-50 mp cost if that were the case. If Regain is introduced as a spell, Scholar certainly makes the most sense to get it.

I figured lv58 because it's directly between the weather spells and the helices, and it's about the point when the really needs that extra utility to continue as a real mage. It's also smack dab in the level range where no one gets anything very special to enhance the speed of parties (unless I'm missing something). The 60s are the worst levels when leveling any job, in terms of tediousness, so this would definitely help through those levels.

Opinions?

My opinion is it'll be gimmicky if it was introduced like this, and it'd suck. Also still no haste = no point inviting them to a melee party, even a SMN with high summoning skill would be more efficient to keep in that slot than someone who can give 1 person TP refill every minute.

What would fix SCH now :

-Actually giving it heavy DoTs (let the spell land on mobs for 200-300), like it was advertized, and not lightweight ones.

-Giving it a role in TP burns without it being inneficient, for example if they're going to fill the whm or rdm spot in a TP burn, let them have the ability to haste others.

- Giving it a role in a manaburn , if they're going to take the spot of a BLM, let the weather durations last as long as 4 minutes, so they can keep it up fulltime on the whole party while allowing themselves to nuke harder.

- Giving it some defensive spells, as of now it's a very weak subjob for mages who can't stoneskin/blink naturally, it leaves them very vulnerable. Once again, it was acclaimed to be the "/sam for mages" , but really ends up being the /pup of mages.

- Categorize magic classes properly , if you want to slow/paralyze something efficiently, you need dark arts up to raise your skill, but due to slow/para being light based debuffs, their MP and casting time goes up, also this fact stops manifestation from allowing you to paralyga/silencega/slowga etc.

- Possibly add buffs to weather effects, gives them a more unique role as a buffer. Imagine thunderstorm as powerful as double DEX etude, firestorm as STR etude, Hailstorm as INT etude, etc, whilst also maintaining weather effects. Because seriously, as cool as changing the weather is, it's near useless in this game.

[LD]

I agree with practically all of that, but what would Voidstorm boost, base MP?

[Kyreth]

It'd be nice it Helix DoT actually tic'd at the same speed as Bio/Dia does.

What I'd like to see added to Scholar spell lists that already exists:

The elemental DoT's (Shock, Rasp) at the level after BLM gets them. They'd flesh out the lower-level Scholar's spell list and go well with the helixes.

Add the Banish line of spells. Banish at level 8, Banish II at 34, Banish III at 69. Scholars can use White magic as much as Black, and this gives them another nuke option when using Light Arts and further allows them weaken undead a bit.

What I'd like to see changed:

Charges. Bring the maximum up to five, and get rid of the "one charge if subbed". Levels 10/25/40/55/70. Low charges means much of the fun stuff a scholar can do can't be done regularly for most of the job's lifespan. Boo hiss.

Halve the recast timer for Dark Arts/Light Arts at 40 as a Job Trait.

Make Modus Veritas expend a Strategem charge, rather than a separate JA with a long timer.

[Spider-Dan]

Simple solution: Give Scholar a new spell that reflects their mastery of battle tactics.

I'm thinking of Regain.

- Lv58.
- 2 minute duration like Refresh / Ballad.
- 1 minute recast to prevent overpowering by casting on too many people.
- 35 or 40 mp cost.
- 2TP/tick.

My opinion is it'll be gimmicky if it was introduced like this, and it'd suck. Also still no haste = no point inviting them to a melee party, even a SMN with high summoning skill would be more efficient to keep in that slot than someone who can give 1 person TP refill every minute.

They'd have to set Regain's duration to match that of Strategem recast.

Then you could permanently Regain the frontline, which would be a valid substitute for Haste (to say the least).

My worry is, Regain (in any form) has the potential to break DNC wide open. DNC with Regain (especially if Scholar's Roll or Dancer's Roll also give Regain) could obsolete RDM and WHM in exp overnight.

[Lordwafik]

so long as dancer keeps it's 15 second recast timer, I can't see them making any of the mages obselete.