Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Miltani]

iirc cure5 was removed from rdm

[Rocl]

iirc cure5 was removed from rdm

Isn't this a moot point since the level cap wasn't high enough for any RDM to learn it anyway?

[Sho]

iirc cure5 was removed from rdm

Isn't this a moot point since the level cap wasn't high enough for any RDM to learn it anyway?

RDM could use it alongside WHM, they learned it same time if I remember right.

[Wizerd]

iirc cure5 was removed from rdm

Isn't this a moot point since the level cap wasn't high enough for any RDM to learn it anyway?

I think they had use of it for a little, level cap was 70 at the time. And they took it out the patch after NA release, in December 2003, which was also the patch they raised the level cap to 75.

[Kyreth]

iirc cure5 was removed from rdm

They also removed Regen II/III from RDM usage as well. Ironically, RDM has still become the popular main healer anyway. LOLBrady guide still listed Cure V in 2004...

If Scholar gets any of the "recovery" spells- let it be something unique, Regain. But I'd like to see them given dominion over DoT. Helixes need to stack properly- like the BLM Elemental DoT's. Scholars need the Elemental DoTs, and probably would benefit from Dia/Bio I-II as well.

Seeing Scholars being able to pile Helix x4 on a target would add up to some respectable damage, especially considering Tier III nukage on top of it.

Let Helixes create a resistance-weakening effect- hit a monster with a Wind Helix, target gets worse vs. Ice. Water helix? Thunder, and so on. Light weakens vs. Dark, Dark vs. Light.

[Evelyn]

I'm not sure that letting a single scholar pile helices on a target is the real answer. Yes, different scholars should be able to have their own helices on a target, however stacking more than one at a time may be a bit much, especially if/when the damage issue is fixed. Off-hand I can see the Modus Veritas JA getting way overpowered if you're able to stack. Don't know if you'd want to use more than one in an end-game setting anyway, since it would take up a decent chunk of MP to keep 2-3 helices up at once, plus weather buffs, healing etc.

So yes to weather spells need shorter recasts, different scholars should be able to apply their own helices, and some mitigating self-buffs would be nice. Other than that, anything else to me is just gravy.

[Damane]

I'm not sure that letting a single scholar pile helices on a target is the real answer. Yes, different scholars should be able to have their own helices on a target, however stacking more than one at a time may be a bit much, especially if/when the damage issue is fixed. Off-hand I can see the Modus Veritas JA getting way overpowered if you're able to stack. Don't know if you'd want to use more than one in an end-game setting anyway, since it would take up a decent chunk of MP to keep 2-3 helices up at once, plus weather buffs, healing etc.

So yes to weather spells need shorter recasts, different scholars should be able to apply their own helices, and some mitigating self-buffs would be nice. Other than that, anything else to me is just gravy.

helixes, weather buffs and some mitigating buffs wont make SCH by all means wanted or good. The job is so sub dependend in some aspects, especially in the enfeeb, buffing and crowd control department. Just imagine a maat fight as scholar with the native spelllist it has... blm rdm whm would stand a better chance by their own without any subs then sch. they have their binds, stoneskins gravitys etc.

fact is the spelllist is lacking immense, a sch cant adapt easy to things when shit hits the fan, rdm blm whm can, they have some crowd control, some enfeebs and stun/flash. as a sch you cant, because your spellist is so sub dependendent... no sleep/bind/gravity kite option when you are /whm, no superb healing options when you are /rdm or /blm, yeah I know we can make our own curagas with stratagems but thats every 4 min. no superb survive options when you go /blm for nukes, because yeah you will lack stoneskin.

regen I - IV, regenra I-III
refresh
maybe regain
stackable helixes
elemental debuff line 1 and exclusiv line 2 (for more -AGI -INT etc. and DoT)
enhanced weather buff duration
elemental weakness debuffs
a 10 min ability that buffs a DoT spell (may it be refresh, regen helixes, or elemental debuffs)

just with this changes I would be very happy as SCH. hell yeah still no crowd control, it would still be sub dependend. but I have at least some options to debuff mobs to help the pt/alliance (elemental line 2, elemental weakness debuffs), regen options for slow healing when AoE hits people etc. and on top of that I still have my stratagems for AoE instant healing/stronger nukeing etc, when shit hits the fan.

[ronin sparthos]

If SCH gets refresh, the job is going down as a RDM clone in a ball of rdm-clone flames. Regain would be more original than that, regen III would be cool but thats kinda stepping on WHMs toes.

The tier I and II elemental DoTs would be a shoo-in though. the weather spells need to fleshed out badly.

[Damane]

If SCH gets refresh, the job is going down as a RDM clone in a ball of rdm-clone flames. Regain would be more original than that, regen III would be cool but thats kinda stepping on WHMs toes.

The tier I and II elemental DoTs would be a shoo-in though. the weather spells need to fleshed out badly.

I dont think refresh would turn SCH into a rdm clone with everything else added, you forget that SCH have no native enfeebs nor haste, stoneskin etc. and regen III would not be stepping on whms toes, whm have haste cure V stona protectra shellra, the barspell line etc. all that over sch, not to mention curagas, repose etc.

[Nirokun!]

regen 3 would be stepping on whms toes lol

healing potency/efficiency---proficiency is a whm thing and a whm thing only. Other jobs can heal and support to a point that a whm does, but SE made tier V defensive spells and -ras and regen 3 to keep whm at the top of that field.

what you said is like saying, hey, giving whms all the weather spells would not be stepping on scholar's toes because scholars still have light/dark arts, helices, and all their strategems.

whm is SE's premiere healer, no if's, and's, or but's.

[Damane]

regen 3 would be stepping on whms toes lol

healing potency/efficiency---proficiency is a whm thing and a whm thing only. Other jobs can heal and support to a point that a whm does, but SE made tier V defensive spells and -ras and regen 3 to keep whm at the top of that field.

what you said is like saying, hey, giving whms all the weather spells would not be stepping on scholar's toes because scholars still have light/dark arts, helices, and all their strategems.

whm is SE's premiere healer, no if's, and's, or but's.

I am myself a whm, regen III wont make SCH into a premiere healer by any means, it will help SCH tough of course. and I think you forget all the other things a whm ecxells at besides healing, which a SCH never can touch. Magic defense buffing is a (if merited and proper gear) whm mastery that no other mage comes close too, not even rdm. not to mention raise II and raise III etc.

[Havok]

SCH already learns regen 1 and 2 earlier than WHM. The same should hold true for regen 3 imo

[ronin sparthos]

If SCH got regen III then they could just give WHM regen IV.

[Gilthas]

If SCH got regen III then they could just give WHM regen IV.

And then people would say that SCHs should get Regen IV too.

And frankly, who cares if giving Refresh to a SCH would make it a RDM clone (it wouldn't) at least that would finally make it a better option to put in the BLM party than a RDM. And hell, it would actually make SCH invite rate higher for exp/merits, god knows soloing BLM to 75 was enough for me, we really don't need another job to be ignored.

As it stands, with me having WHM and BLM at 75 there's no reason to ever bring SCH to events.

[BRP]

Like I said, give SCH ballad before Refresh.

[ronin sparthos]

Flurry and Regain would be sufficient imo, along with the elemental debuffs (both tiers)

[Alibeemac]

Currently levelling SCH atm (55). So far I am pretty much treating it as a WHM in exp pts. 90% of the time I sub WHM as I am main healer. Haven't gotten the Helix yet but so far I am not greatly impressed with Storm spells other than they look pretty and are fun in Beseiged for BLMs in the alliance. They definately need to add something to the Storm spells to make them less redundant. Recast timers being shortened is something SE definately needs to consider. Atm Accession Thunderstorm is good for Zerg fights only like DL. Longer fights such a Faf, Tiamat etc it is pretty bleh for. Adding things such a Break etc to Storms is a very interesting idea and definately could be a good addition.

SCH needs to be given more unique spells. Refresh absolutely not, that is RDM's uniqueness and I refuse to turn my SCH into another Refresh bot. Haste ehhhh unsure about but am tending to fall into the No category as it keeps it too much in the Healer category. I'm loving the suggestion of Tier 2 Dots altho I think these should be added in a similar way to enfeebles as Merit categories. Regain would definately be something I would like to see. This spell alone would give SCH a uniqueness that would make it desireable both in exp and HNM fights.

The main thing SCH needs right now is better gear -.- I am praying they add Abj/Salvage gear in the next patch to be SCH usable. I wanna be able to use my Dalmy instead of ugly Errant and drop rates in Nyzul suck so much that getting a Saio is gonna suck.

I am relatively enjoying levelling SCH tho as long as parties don't last too long or I start to fall asleep from boredom. I love SCH in Besieged and Campaign. Spamming AOEs on the NPCs and mobs is fun even if I do die :D

[6souls]

How about the addition of tier 1 and 2 single target bar-status spells. Bar-status are the most unused spells and could use a boost. Could work well in later level battles where a whm is already present for Protectra/Shellra and you could use a boost in status resistance. Also the addition of Libra as an enhanced /examine. File it under "tactical assessment" to decide how to change up the battle. It would give them more of a use in hnm endgame.

[Custom M]

Regain and Regen III seem pretty agreeable. It feels downright weird getting Regen II sooner than WHM and not getting Regen III at all. Regain fits very well, but I've always wondered: What does TP stand for? Tactical Points? Technique Points? Anyone know?
Latent spells would be novel, but overall seem difficult to manage. I would advocate small effects added to storm spells. Looking to elemental staves for inspiration would be appropriate. But I think increasing duration would be more important. Maybe 4 minute duration if other effects are added, 15 minute duration if not? 2 minute duration is just awful.
Also, what about self-target Flurry or Freshies? (Yeah, call it Freshies so it can stack with Refresh and mirror Flurry, plus people who refer to Refresh as Freshies will confuse RDMs. All around a good deal.)
Finally, I think the drawbacks of Accession/Manifestation use (double recast time) are enough to warrant a lower stratagem recharge time. And... maybe increase Ebuillience/Rapture effect to 50% to correlate with Parisimony/Penury/Alacrity/Celerity?

[BRP]

Why not just level WHM?