Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Araius]

Edit: And they seriously need to fix the Light/Dark Arts icons both looking the same. >.>

Better yet, just make it so that when Light Arts is up, you can only use Dark Arts, etc. That way no matter what you don't waste a whole freaking minute when you accidentally hit the wrong one, and you could just put /ja "Light Arts" <me> and /ja "Dark Arts" <me> on the same macro

[Miltani]

just save yourself the trouble and get brandson's ui mod if you're on the pc

[TeancumMemsochet]

Or you could do what I do and make 2 different macro sets. One for Light Arts and one for Dark Arts. Then on the dark arts set have one to activate Light Arts, and on the Light Arts set one to activate dark arts. Each macro also switches gear and changes the macro set to the appropriate set. Doing this, I've never had a problem knowing which arts I'm under or cast the wrong spell type(ie light magic w/ dark arts up). The only draw back is hitting the macro b4 the timer is up or losing the "arts" effect(dying and zoning). You end up with the wrong macro set, but don't change arts.

[Gilthas]

My solution for them is for SE to give SCH Refresh, and them give RDM Refresh II (@4-5 tick, cannot stack with Refresh). At least from there, SCH would still be balanced from not having Haste (at the expense of having Refreshga), and RDM could keep their decent PT invites with their Haste spell.

Or they could make Refresh not stack with Accession and have RDMs still have Haste and higher enfeebling skill (that or give them reasons to use their swords more ).

[Aemora]

My Sch macros go like this:

/ja "Light Arts" <me>
/equip body "Vermillion's Cloak"

and

/ja "Dark Arts" <me>
/equip body "Shaman's Cloak"

Kinda easy to tell which mode I'm in >.>

Disclaimer: Lv59+ onry

[Kyreth]

ok peopel dont want to give SCH refresh/regen III etc for whatever reason, because it wont make it "unique"

DNC is unique because his healing power relies on TP instead of MP.

What do mages lack? in battle we are not capable to do Skillchains, unless we engage the enemy and try to hit it .

As far as I think SC are classified as magic dmg, correct me if I am wrong.

My Idea would be to give SCH the Skillchains as additional nukes, that support thus the dmg of BLMs dealt in PTs/HNM fights indirectly.

We basicly create a way where SCs are generated in MP instead of TP.

We have a winner. Unique, useful, and Scholary even in it's roughest form.

[evilpaul]

Would Refreshga really be broken if it cost 3x as much anyway?

[Kyreth]

Would Refreshga really be broken if it cost 3x as much anyway?

Not broken, but it'd certainly be a time-saver. A few cases it'd be a discount (say, BLM PT's). RDM 60 or so, and there would be much rejoicing.

[Toth]

I must say that it is very awesome to be able to greatly heal an outside party with Accension'd Cure IV (even more so with DS) while TP burning Kirin 3 times in a row

[Ryushii]

Would Refreshga really be broken if it cost 3x as much anyway?

Not broken, but it'd certainly be a time-saver. A few cases it'd be a discount (say, BLM PT's). RDM 60 or so, and there would be much rejoicing.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks this is a good idea. Why would you waste one of SCH's defining abilities to Refresh an entire party when you could just do it without the ability? It's like wasting a DS on a cure2 or an ES on a bliz2. It's almost never a good use of the ability.

[Max™]

I must say that it is very awesome to be able to greatly heal an outside party with Accension'd Cure IV (even more so with DS) while TP burning Kirin 3 times in a row

That is in fact a very awesome use of Sch, I'll have to bring that up in Sky, cause it's always kind of a scramble getting everyone cured back up after AF.

Also: Scholar with the ability to cast Skillchain effects for other mages to MB off of is the best idea I've ever heard for what to give Sch to make them more useful/unique/powerful.

Even better if you could SC off them, get the Sch to cast Fusion, drop a Ground Strike > 3 Man light ftw?


Though, Blu kinda has the MP > SC thing, but they still need TP for it.

[Toth]

As much as I love the idea, though, of skillchain magic, I know there would be way too many QQing DDs. Just think of the possiblities of creating a skillchain on high-end HNMs without feeding them any TP :drolls:

If this would ever come to pass, my guess how it would be implemented would be 6 elemental spells ala weather and helices learned past level 50 that would most likely do weak-average damage to balance it (or have a high MP cost/ recast time). I could only imagine how useful that would be in manaburns and on all exp merit mobs save colibris :elmer:

[Max™]

Well, I doubt you'd see Light and Dark SC's, if you really wanted to balance it some, make it level 1 SC effects only, without a big prohibitive cast effect, but let Sch's or other WSes SC off them appropriately.

I don't think it would be so bad to give them like lvl 20-50 lvl 1 SC's, and lvl 60-75 the lvl 2's.

[neira]

As much as I love the idea, though, of skillchain magic, I know there would be way too many QQing DDs. Just think of the possiblities of creating a skillchain on high-end HNMs without feeding them any TP :drolls:

If this would ever come to pass, my guess how it would be implemented would be 6 elemental spells ala weather and helices learned past level 50 that would most likely do weak-average damage to balance it (or have a high MP cost/ recast time). I could only imagine how useful that would be in manaburns and on all exp merit mobs save colibris :elmer:

I'm not possative, but i think spells give TP to mobs, easy way to check would be go blm/bst, do a nuke that wont kill the mob, charm it, then <pettp> pretty sure it will have TP when you do this.

[Evelyn]

magic skillchains are an awesome idea. For game-balancing purposes you may need to make them all work off the same timer. Maybe a JA you use (Elemental Chain?), then cast a spell to get the appropriate L1 skillchain effect? Put it on a 5 minute timer and I don't think you'll have many pissed off DDs, plus we'd get to use it in conjunction with spells we'd be casting normally.

[Toth]

As much as I love the idea, though, of skillchain magic, I know there would be way too many QQing DDs. Just think of the possiblities of creating a skillchain on high-end HNMs without feeding them any TP :drolls:

If this would ever come to pass, my guess how it would be implemented would be 6 elemental spells ala weather and helices learned past level 50 that would most likely do weak-average damage to balance it (or have a high MP cost/ recast time). I could only imagine how useful that would be in manaburns and on all exp merit mobs save colibris :elmer:

I'm not possative, but i think spells give TP to mobs, easy way to check would be go blm/bst, do a nuke that wont kill the mob, charm it, then <pettp> pretty sure it will have TP when you do this.

Each black magic spell give 10 TP (?) I believe. I was more referring to how you couldn't need two DDs to give mobs large amounts of TP in order for them to get 100 TP for their weaponskills. Dancers and Blue mages are examples of how this can work at least.

P.S I agree that Scholars should not get lvl 3 skillchains. That would be very game breaking.

P.S.S Love the Elemental Chain idea! I could actually see that as a Strategem.

[Lordwafik]

By "game breaking" you mean "Scholar becomes useful" ?

I wonder how many people said "OMG BARD IS BROKEN" as they kept levelling. Just because it's a good idea and very powerful doesn't mean it's broken, job is shit as of now.

[Spekkio]

By "game breaking" you mean "Scholar becomes useful" ?

I wonder how many people said "OMG BARD IS BROKEN" as they kept levelling. Just because it's a good idea and very powerful doesn't mean it's broken, job is shit as of now.

i concur. how is a sch being able to bust out a skillchain nuke really that different from a sam doing the same? meanwhile, after the sam has burnt his meditate, he can continue to stand and DD while waiting for his timer to come up. there's no downtime, just times of less tools. meanwhile, a sch has a finite pool to work from, like any mage. while you may be able to back to back them a little better, once you spend your tools, you're out for a while. it's no worse than blm getting thunder4 or any other large damage tools. you may hit hard and quick, but it doesn't last too long if you push it too much.

[ronin sparthos]

The idea of Scholar making skillchains isnt a bad idea, it could be not only a way of making SCH unique, but also giving melee some 'friendly' competition in the skillchain department. (Hey, most people think SC suck so whats the big deal.)

The only issue is that SCs are based on weaponskill damage currently, so making spells outta them would result in them being based on ________?

[Kkel]

Would a castable lv2 skillchain still be able to be followed by a WS for lv3? You'd be getting close to the whole "breaking" aspect in an alliance situation. 5 SCH and a SAM with Meikyo could pump out 5 lv3's, Light and Dark, in a matter of seconds for MB purposes.