Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Toth]

They don't really need a strategem to bring a tier 3 to tier 4 nuke power. They just need to fix Ebullience to add 50% MAB and not 20%. Or, conversely, allow a SCH to stack Ebulliences to enhance the damage (though this would really require the strategem recast to drop to 2 mins.)

[ronin sparthos]

Or another stratagem that adds MAB on a 2 charge use? (2mins x2)

[BRP]

Flurry as a replacement for haste keeps RDMs and BRDs desired

Wouldn't a weapon delay spell break the game?

[ronin sparthos]

Not quite, DNC already has Haste Samba which for all intents and purposes is Flurry.

[BRP]

It's only 5% though.

[ronin sparthos]

Flurry is already a 'tamed' haste, lacking the recast punch that the 'real' Haste gives but keeping the faster swings aspect. I think it'd be a fair tradeoff for a castable Flurry to give 10% attack speed+ with SE dictating if it can stack with the 'normal' haste or not.


Or: Give SCH the standard Haste spell, with the extra hoop of having to use a Windstorm/Wind Weather to cast it.

[BRP]

Or give them march stratagem...


Anyway, at some point, there's a thing called too much Haste, where characters start hitting nigh-hundred fist speeds in a standard exp party.

[ronin sparthos]

It wouldnt be that bad, EXP-wise. I could see your arguement holding true for something like a DRK kclub-zerg fest but thats just one of those 'things' SE has chosen to ignore despite it being pretty 'broken' in loose terms.

Of Refresh, Regain and Haste - i think Haste is the least broken, Flurry if SE really wants to be 'special' in terms giving SCH something unique and all its own. Regain is just too 'hey guys lets break melees more!!' and Refresh is conceding that they have no direction for the job besides RDM-cloneship.

Haste is pretty much something any 'versitile' mage needs to survive in this day and age, even BLU has its own pocket-haste. I think Haste, along with a combination of Skillchain-inspiring spells, stratagem tweak and weather-spells (put those unique tier II DoTs in here) would be the shot of adrenaline SCH needs to be completely unique.

[BRP]

Regain is hardly broken imo. Unless you make it a huge effect, it's probably going to give someone 50 to 100 TP over 3 or 5 mins. Not that I think SCH should get regain, that's boring.

[ronin sparthos]

Those tics add up and combined with Samurai/Warriors etc already pushing the limit on DD just seems like more fluff that most DDs dont really need. Beastmaster is a DD, if they wanna 'improve' DD - go improve BST

I say leave Auto-Regain to DNC, they should get at least 1-2tp/tic since they are 'healers'.

SCH gets 1 Max MP Boost trait iirc? 2 wouldnt be too bad for them.

[Enygma55]

I think everyone here has lost sight of what a SCH was intended to be by SE's standard and everyone is just trying to throw stuff together on a new mage job. Starting to sound like timemage with all the haste > regain > flurry > break (aka stop) magic that the job supposedly needs to function.

[Nekio]

Regain is hardly broken imo. Unless you make it a huge effect, it's probably going to give someone 50 to 100 TP over 3 or 5 mins. Not that I think SCH should get regain, that's boring.

Don't worry, COR will be getting Regain-ga when they release Dancer's Roll.

And I agree, giving 1-3TP (max with DNC in party and an 11 roll) every three seconds isn't going to break anything. It'd really only be useful for DDs outside of the alliance in place of Opo necklaces. Other rolls would still be more preferable in merit parties (ie. Fighter's, Chaos, or Rogue's depending on setup).

[ronin sparthos]

I think everyone here has lost sight of what a SCH was intended to be by SE's standard and everyone is just trying to throw stuff together on a new mage job. Starting to sound like timemage with all the haste > regain > flurry > break (aka stop) magic that the job supposedly needs to function.

What is SEs standard? Currently the job is in limbo somewhere between RDM and BLM, in both categories devoid of the meat of the job and SCHs main draw is flawed due to stupidly long timers/restrictions.

SCH feels more like a concept, less of a job. The DoT/weather bit is nice, but does SE wanna make another SMN where the job feels like its pretending to be something else for 60 levels?

SCH doesnt *need* anything to function, SE could just give it SS/blink and think the job is workable as-is but currently (at least to me) the job is devoid of charm. Its got nothing another job cant equal or exceed. Its still new, why people are still discussing it and brainstorming ideas to make it 'better'.

Theres tons of spells locked away in the .dats, its a shame SE doesnt think to use them on this new job. Break could easily just be an earth-based stun, less of the stop its known for on the monsters side.

[Restrat]

I think sticking with SE's idea of a JA oriented mage is better than giving scholar spells. How about a series of abilities related to battle management? Something like "Tides of Battle"- gives 10 second terrorize to all allies and aggro'd monsters, except the scholar, giving you enough time for some needed curing/stoneskinga/nuking if things are going wrong. Or JA "Battle Strategy" commands for the party, something like songs or rolls. "Scholar orders concentrated fire!" and a boost is given to ranged attacks, "Scholar orders defensive positioning!" and damage taken decreases a small percent.

[BRP]

Let it be said, the best ideas for SCH have already have already been said and most of this new stuff is starting to sound stupid.

[TeancumMemsochet]

Let it be said, the best ideas for SCH have already have already been said and most of this new stuff is starting to sound stupid.

I agree. And while I think giving SCH Accessionable Refresh, I still believe that SCH should get mage boosting abilities/spells.

[Toth]

I'm playing FF12 atm and I wonder if SE would ever consider giving SCH Bravery and Faith for their unique spells. For the 6 people that missed FF12, Bravery and Faith are spells that increase attack and magic power respectfully. Seems like a valuable tool a SCH can use to turn the tide of battle like they were claimed to supposed to but so far have not really shown (how changing weather on any non obi mage wins any battle in this game is beyond me lol).

[Shinsei a la Odin]

That would be a great idea, they also had that in FFT. Have it be straight potency maybe, like it can effect cure spells too and maybe enhancing/enfeebling magic.

[Ryushii]

I'm playing FF12 atm and I wonder if SE would ever consider giving SCH Bravery and Faith for their unique spells. For the 6 people that missed FF12, Bravery and Faith are spells that increase attack and magic power respectfully. Seems like a valuable tool a SCH can use to turn the tide of battle like they were claimed to supposed to but so far have not really shown (how changing weather on any non obi mage wins any battle in this game is beyond me lol).

Wonderful idea, though Faith is like a more direct way of storms+obis (and storms without obis can still proc more damage).

That brings up a question: do the weather spells appear to have an increased proc rate when compared to regular weather?

[ronin sparthos]

I think it just simulates the weather effect you'd have if you were in a zone with a weather condition going on. Your still subject to the random procs unless you have an obi on?