Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Meian]

Any other SCHS have any luck on getting Helices to do respectable damage on HNMs? With +50 INT and 286 elemental skill, I kept getting 1s on Genbu...

Not HNMS but gods only
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3752/4godhelixip7.jpg

Curious to what gear and merits you have

[Toth]

Found this on MMORPG.com thanks to a heads up from KI:

Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess Class Questions
Mitsutoshi Gondai - Planner & Akihiko Matsui - Battle Director recently spoke with us about the two new jobs added in their latest expansion for Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess.
MMORPG.com:


FFXI Expansions 1 and 3 has added 3 new classes each and expansion 4 has added two. Tell us about the thoughts and reasons behind the addition of new classes (jobs). Why so many at a time for example. Is it so there's more than one kind of newbie around?
SquareEnix:


The first reason for the addition of multiple jobs is to give a variety of choices to players interested in starting a new job. Secondly, as you mentioned, having this variety allows a party composed of all new jobs to have more flexibility.

And unlike the addition of new monsters or other basic elements, adding a new job requires significant system changes. These changes are best made during the release of expansion packs, so it makes sense to introduce all the jobs in development as major features of an expansion.

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MMORPG.com:


There's what is known in MMOGs as the "Holy Trinity" of classes: the melee, the healer and crowd control, followed by other classic roles such as the rogue and the magic user. Where does the Dancer and the Scholar fall in? How would you describe the two new classes? Let's start with the Dancer.
SquareEnix:


While being classed as a "healer", the dancer stands in the thick of things with the melee jobs. After designing the blue mage for Treasures of Aht Urhgan, we decided that the next job we designed would follow this concept.
MMORPG.com:


What about the Scholar?
SquareEnix:


Scholars are capable of being healers, damage dealers, or crowd control, depending on how they combine the use of abilities, magic, and support jobs.

With the ability to switch between roles, this job is designed to make a significant contribution to the party no matter the situation. However, we still need to make some adjustments before the scholar's potential is fully realized.
MMORPG.com:


What does the Dancer bring to the table that is new and what, if anything, is shared with older jobs?
SquareEnix:


First and foremost, dancers require TP in order to activate their abilities. When I thought about designing a healer that hits the enemy, I decided to make TP a necessary component of the job in order to give dancers a reason to be in melee. Another new element is the dancer's ability to alter the enemy using Samba moves, wherein other party members gain various effects from attacking the altered opponent. The short duration of Samba effects on a target was another way to ensure the dancer remained on the front line.

Finishing moves were added as a way to activate abilities that didn't rely on HP, MP, or TP. This element brings a level of complexity to the job that prevents the dancer's actions from being subject to nothing more than the recast timer.
MMORPG.com:


I'll ask the same about the Scholar.
SquareEnix:


Up until now, the actions of a magic user have been limited by spells and the use of MP. However, we designed scholars with abilities that grant them an expanded range of flexibility and control over the magic they command. The "charge" system was also introduced to allow scholars further freedom to combine abilities or use them in rapid succession.
MMORPG.com:


What about their roles in a group? What do they bring to the group mix? What powers/skills do they add?
SquareEnix:


I suppose you could call dancers "healers with good footwork." I think their ability to heal during a mobile fight, and the fact that they don't need to rest to recover MP is a key factor. Clever use of their many abilities in conjunction with those of other party members makes dancers an excellent support class.

Scholars, on the other hand, bring the ability to convert certain single-target spells into area of effect spells, which can make all the difference in some situations.
MMORPG.com:


It looks like every class is designed to have a primary and a secondary purpose. Are some classes better at one than the other?
SquareEnix:


There are many jobs in the world of FINAL FANTASY XI, but everyone has their favorite. Even with a system that allows players to change jobs freely, it's extremely satisfying for us to see players form an attachment with a specific job.

It depends on the situation, but if one job appears to be performing far above the rest, then it is usually time to make some adjustments. In an online game where new elements are being continuously introduced, it often becomes necessary to make weaker jobs stronger and stronger jobs weaker. The first thing we consider is how these adjustments will make the game more interesting, and also how they will affect the overall balance of the game.

Certain jobs will perform better in certain circumstances or against certain enemies. However, this becomes more an issue with the range of play style available, rather than a problem with job balance.
MMORPG.com:


Can either the Dancer or Scholar solo effectively? Tell us some of the offensive and defensive powers they have access to that?
SquareEnix:


The dancer was designed to be effective in small parties, so the job is certainly viable for solo play. certainly viable for solo play. If you have yet to try playing a dancer, I suggest you see how effective the Drain Samba (gained at level 5) and the Curing Waltz (gained at level 15) can be in combat.

To be completely honest, the scholar is not intended as a solo job. However, as a scholar reaches the higher levels, they become more capable of defeating enemies with offensive spells in much the same way as a black mage or red mage.
MMORPG.com:


There has been some comment that the Dancer seems to be over-powered, especially when compared to the Scholar. Do you feel that's true and have there been some re-balancing that's taken or is taking place?
SquareEnix:


We feel that the scholar is in need of adjustment, and changes are currently in the works.

We hope to make the scholar a job that players will consider interesting and challenging to play.
MMORPG.com:


Are more classes to come do you think?
SquareEnix:


Are more classes to come do you think?

We'll see. (laughs)

I think we'll stick with improving the scholar for now! (laughs)"

Thoughts? At least they are aware of the job's shortcomings.

[Priran]

they say they think it needs adjustment. that doesn't mean they're aware of SCH's shortcomings, it means they're aware no one is playing it.

[Toth]

Shortcomings may be the wrong word but at least SE knows that the job needs work. And quickly

[LD]

In any case, it's best we don't expect anything beyond subbable Stoneskin this March. A Helix fix is possible, but the major changes the job needs to do what SE promised are unlikely to come this soon.

[Miltani]

Curious to what gear and merits you have

8 Elemental 8 Enfeeble 70+46 int

[Maxxthepenguin]

they say they think it needs adjustment. that doesn't mean they're aware of SCH's shortcomings, it means they're aware no one is playing it.

No... Nobody used/uses DRG and they denied it being underpowered for a long, long time.

[LinktheDeme]

they say they think it needs adjustment. that doesn't mean they're aware of SCH's shortcomings, it means they're aware no one is playing it.

No... Nobody used/uses DRG and they denied it being underpowered for a long, long time.

Kind of like there doing with PUP

[Maxxthepenguin]

they say they think it needs adjustment. that doesn't mean they're aware of SCH's shortcomings, it means they're aware no one is playing it.

No... Nobody used/uses DRG and they denied it being underpowered for a long, long time.

Kind of like there doing with PUP

More or less lol

In both cases it shows that SE's flaws are the polar opposite of what mr leaking vag thinks

[Priran]

Except SCH and DRG were completely different cases. SCH just came out and is already abandoned. DRG was popular, then it got nerfed, and people gradually left the job. And SE is adding PUP attachments all the time, added new maton WS, and increased maton skill levels.

I'd probably expect SE to at least be aware of what their playerbase wants if there wasn't so much precedent set to the contrary.

[BRP]

PUP got the biggest boost than any job that comes into mind, hardly ignored at all. Their only beef is the clumsiness of a pet job and the lack of any sort of burst damage.

[Toth]

PUP got the biggest boost than any job that comes into mind, hardly ignored at all. Their only beef is the clumsiness of a pet job and the lack of any sort of burst damage.

Very true. And I can draw a lot of parallels between 'beta' (ie pre update) PUP and beta SCH. SCH has the bonus of being a very good healer so it's spot in a party is always welcome.

[SilverBreeze]

PUP got the biggest boost than any job that comes into mind, hardly ignored at all. Their only beef is the clumsiness of a pet job and the lack of any sort of burst damage.

Very true. And I can draw a lot of parallels between 'beta' (ie pre update) PUP and beta SCH. SCH has the bonus of being a very good healer so it's spot in a party is always welcome.

Hey hey, let's not get carried away there buddy. SCH are very good healers but I wouldn't exactly call them welcome to parties heh. The lack of certain spells will always keep us in third in like for the healer role. "Man there's no RDMs or BRDs seeking, oh well, get the SCH."

I don't think PUP is a bad job at all, although it did instantly get a bad reputation and quickly became a loljob. SE keeps doing stuff for it to make it better and better, I think its a job that needs to be explored more, but that would require more people to be open minded about it.

I do hope the adjustments for SCH turn out well, even in its current state I still love the job, its pretty unique in what it can do, and I just want it to be better. Also BLM/SCH Tarutarus get 85 int with merits, which is nuts :O

[Toth]

What I mean about being welcome is that unlike PUP, even at this stage SCH has the chance of being invited to main heal a party (parallel to SMN in a way) if needed and the exp will not suffer. Leveling PUP to 60 was rather difficult as even today, where you still won't get invites if there are different melees lfp despite how well geared you are.

[Reapz]

In any case, it's best we don't expect anything beyond subbable Stoneskin this March.

Stoneskin for SCH would be awesome if it could be changed to AoE through stratagems, then we could finally get the capped 350 damage absorb onto people rather than the 200 from Earthern Ward and 184 from Diamondhide.

[Toth]

Um...SCHs can already do that by subbing WHM and RDM...

[Reapz]

Did I fail I thought I heard they can't be changed into an area spell
Edit: Oh my god they can, who knew now I feel so silly

[Toth]

Did I fail I thought I heard they can't be changed into an area spell
Edit: Oh my god they can, who knew now I feel so silly

It's okay :D It's actually a neat trick we have that I use in meritting parties to help damage reduction. If we just had something else to offer...

My wish again is for Bravery and Faith:

Bravery
Level 45 SCH
MP Cost: 50
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 30 seconds
"Improves attack and attack speed of target (10% attack bonus and 10% Haste/Weapon Delay)"

Faith
Level 45 SCH
MP Cost: 50
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 30 seconds
"Improves a target's magic attack and magic defense (10% MAB and 10% MDB)"

These spells are not broken (Bravery would be weaker than BRD songs and COR rolls, Faith would be an excellent self buff besides party) and would make scholar into a job that..you know...changes the course of battle like its supposed too lol

[Kaslo]

In before < Bard Song = worthless statements

[Toth]

This is FFXI. Gotta be some balance somewhere :D