Campaign: help make a difference

[Rocl]

Long live Yrvaulair S Cousseraux

[DanielRemora]

Fair enough, they tell you that healing, enhancing, damaging etc gives you points. But what they don't tell you would help a lot. Like, where the hell are the allied NPCs, when are they going to attack, where are the mobs coming from, etc.

The last thing they should do is completely eliminate any element of suprise and actual warfare. Telling you who's coming, in what numbers, where from, and when...? So basically make it like besieged. Oh look, we see them building. Look, advancing. Guess I can AFK here until then...

If I wanted them to make it like Besieged, I would have said "Make it like Besieged."

I'm not asking to know every detail. It's just stupid not to implement things like Allied NPC locations. As it seems we are using real situations to depict how it should be in this game - You don't get dropped into a war not knowing where your allies are, that's retarded. The same can be said for pretty much everything, bar when they are going to attack. If NPCs can run off and intercept attacking forces - because they magically seem to know where they are, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to. I'm on the same team, folks! Tell me things, so that I can actually be of use!

War is not planned. They did a damn good job with the atmosphere in WotG and the last thing they need to do is explain to people word for word what to do, what happens, when and how.

Again, I don't want this. What I want to know is information that should be freely available.

The current 'instructions' for the Campaigns in question, are essentially:
Defend
or
Attack

Not very tactical.

Also, something to let you know both: How long campaign has been active in x area, and how long until the next campaign.

I find whenever I tele to a zone where campaign is happening, it ends before I can do anything. And of course, when I go somewhere that isn't battling, I wait for over an hour for it to start.

Waiting for an hour is ridiculous, yes. The attacks should happen faster, but eliminating any need to wait and be vigilant all together simply ruins the entire concept.

You didn't quite get that. I wasn't asking to eliminate waiting, I was asking to know where Campaign is taking place so that I can put my time to use efficiently. Again, you don't drop an entire army into an area that may, at some point in the future, errupt into war - Unless there is intel to support it.

Fix things so that attacking occurs faster but still occurs over a window, create clear objectives, but don't curtail to people who want the battles on a silver platter, planned and slotted like Besieged was.

This is what I would like to see.

Also I think that if your nation's intel level is really low, then mobs should be able to spawn directly on the NPCs at the fortifications without any warning; surprise attacks!

This isn't.

[Max™]

Ballista Earring idea ftw.

You talk to NPC, you get the item.

It then gives you the messages.

You go get one from each of the nations you want to participate in campaign with, and you get told when the orcs are moving on Jugner, that the Quadav are retreating from the Nest, and that Yags have been seen moving towards Saruta.

Don't care about Sandy's status, and indifferent to Bastok? Give those earrings back and just worry about your home.

You're a soldier, why do you have to rely on a laggy map and luck to actually FIND THE BATTLE YOUR FELLOW SOLDIERS ARE FIGHTING IN.

I should be fired for having blundered head long into the Yagudo several times in Karugo while trying to figure out where the hell my NPC's are coming from.

I've seen them at one spot once, another a different time, seen em just about appear near Rotih once, and haven't seen anyone do anything at all multiple times.

What the hell?

I just want to hear "Scout reporting in, Yagudo spotted near K8, main forces stay at J10 and await further instructions." so I can know the general part of the map to even BE IN.

Better still, when I find the yagudo, and I'm the only one there, why can't there be some way to notify the Aquarian Casters who are halfway across the map admiring a cactus flower?

>.>

/rant

I still love it, it's just a little confusing at times.

[BRP]

I think they need fix how NPCs work because it's quite a bit out of whack. Campaign shouldn't be painfully easily due to some weird glitch, neither should it be nigh impossible due to no NPCs showing up.

Additionally, add some variety between fights with some clear and interesting objectives. Like more focus on taking down "fornications", perhaps something silly as capture the flag/brennen style play or a specific NPC you have to protect like a Serpent General. Aside from that, you should be able to be on the offensive while on the defensive. Let's say Beastmens have three major camps with three NMs(or six) that contain every monster due to appear in campaign. During waves parts of their population are sent to attack NPCs, but Players can go ahead and attack them first if they choose. Killing all the NMs would make them retreat.

The idea of sneak attacks aren't that terrible considering it would put more importance in intel and can be easily prevented.

A final complaint about Campaign would be the lack of combat necessary in Campaign Ops.

EDIT: I'm also extremely disappointed in the lack of Orcish Lizard mounts ;/ and awesome Kingslayer bugard mount. The latter I'm hoping to see in Xarcabard though!

[Kael]

I think the biggest thing I would like is clear instructions from a Campaign related NPC on what to DO.

Fair enough, they tell you that healing, enhancing, damaging etc gives you points. But what they don't tell you would help a lot. Like, where the hell are the allied NPCs, when are they going to attack, where are the mobs coming from, etc.

Also, something to let you know both: How long campaign has been active in x area, and how long until the next campaign.

I find whenever I tele to a zone where campaign is happening, it ends before I can do anything. And of course, when I go somewhere that isn't battling, I wait for over an hour for it to start.

Yah, I was talking to a few friends about this, and the biggest drawback to campaign is literally "confusion". I've figured out most of it, but that's because I was there for a long time seeing exactly how it worked.

There should be a system message in every WotG zone announcing when <Region> is under attack. After that, there should be region specific messages, only in the region getting attacked, about what is going on in their campaign.

For example, Let's say Grauberg is getting attacked. Worldwide message should be :

"Grauberg is under attack! Head to the nearest C.A and participate in the battle"

Then once inside grauberg, you should have the NPC inform you the status

"The enemy are guarding the fort, however our re-inforcements are currently in <POS>".

That would be good for a beastman controlled zone. For a nation controlled zone it should say :

"The allience is guarding the fort, however [Orcs/Quadavs/Yagudo/Demons] Have been spotted in <POS>, be on alert!"

and then it should inform us when the current wave is over and when the next wave gets prepared/begins.


I know there would be a lot of spam from the WotG zones from campaign starting up, but a lot of people still don't understand that "Sword on map = battle going on", and once they're there, they don't understand how campaign works (literally just like beseiged, but without system messages).

I'm copy/pasting this and sending it to comments and suggestions to SE, hopefully more people do the same so it can stop the confusion.

Playonline.com > Service and Support > E-mail Support > Comments and Suggestions

Letting us know where our NPC allies are at would be incredibly helpful. Especially in zones like E.Necropolis.

[Sho]

If anything I want it more often in some zones. Have made a lot of exp and limit points off campaign so far. :D

Amen sista, amen. Don't really need to exp on BST anymore, I just spam Campaign for exp.

[Lucavi]

Just a pinch more information would be perfect. The game even talks about how the troops have their own military linkpearls for easily communication, so right there could be the introduction to the "ballista-esque" pearls for PCs to use. Give us the <pos> of the incoming reinforcements when we zone in (for attacks), and give us a rough <pos> of where the enemy "might" be when we zone in (for defense). I'm all for sneak attacks -- I think its hilarious when shadows run practically down the side of the east cliff in gustaberg, when the gigas just attacked from the north, but when its takes 40 minutes for them to get there, just knowing that they're actually somewhere -in- the area would be nice.

Also, enough with the bastok "spying and sabatoge" tactics, especially when fighting. Sandy's zerg-rush tactics are working admirably on Hades, while bastok is sending the grand majority of its attacking forces down paths that PCs aren't even paying attention to, especially at Rolanberry. It's neigh-impossible to coordinate between 30 people to move to the other fucking gate because that's where the NPCs will be coming from, when all of these people don't give a damn about actually winning -- they just want to fight and get their 600 xp over and over.

I can understand it to a point, but you can get the same 600 xp repeatedly by actually -trying- to help the NPCs win the battle. Maybe I just need to move servers -- Bastok is so pathetic on Hades it makes me sick.

/QQ ova!

[Lordwafik]

Campaign has taken off hardcore during JP time. Jugner hit 40 people, and after the last battle (where people got over 3k exp by continuously handing in tags), we managed to change the zone from Beastmen owned to Sandorian owned.

I'm not sure how other countries can influence , I am bastokian but I didn't see bastok's points go up (there were a bunch of us from bastok).

Regardless, this is getting very very fun. Can't wait for future updates. JP time on my server sucks for exp, but is great for things like this.

[Kyreth]

Western Sarutabaruta was beautiful to behold, even though I got there late.

I <3 the current "fog of war". Recon is poor, the forces of Altana are mostly set in defensive postures or hit-and-return tactics. We have no ability to disrupt enemy bases or strike at the heart of the beastmen forces.

(As Shantotto is currently occupied in the Northlands, Windurst is using the A Tea- er, I mean their Warlock might to keep things going till she can take down the boss.) ^^

I'm betting as we get to run more missions, things will change. All those reinforcements you're escorting? If you're like me, sitting there teaching the newbie crafters how to make war materials? (By the way, S-E...you made my day when I got to teach my own Clothcrafting class for the war effort. Heck, yeah!) All those missions supposedly have an effect on the war, and I'm curious to see it.

Get your fight on, however you choose to serve. I'm already hoping some of this expansion rubs off on the "present day" conquest.

[Yutuyu]

I was pretty unclear, arguing realism in a fantasy game is downright stupid, my point was more that if they make too many changes to let everyone know what's going on, it's going to destroy the atmosphere currently setup. Besieged for example, has next to no atmosphere. It's so utterly predictable.

And I'm not really against letting there be messages broadcast to inform people that an attack is suspected to occur. But when you tell us exactly where our allies and enemies are, when the event starts, when new waves are coming; you start to boil it down to something without atmosphere and can be follwed as a routine like besieged.

It also makes absolutely no sense from a storyline point of view. Incase you guys don't follow it much, we're at the point in the war where the allies are losing. Within the next few months of ingame time, Garlaige will fall, Windurst's Walls will be breached, and the walls around Jeuno will be destroyed (along with Ru'lude) during the Siege. Followed sometime around there by the destruction of Tavnazia. At the start of the war San d'Oria lost Davoi and not too much before the WotG storyline begins, Bastok's Fourth Division gets massacred at Grauberg.

You guys expect CA's (Who by the way most work for Jeuno, especially in attacking areas) to somehow magically know the position of National Forces at all times, and also the invading enemies? There's no Global Positioning Satalites, the allies are at a low point in the war, and nations don't even share that much intel (what little they probably have).

At best you should be able to be informed when an attack is suspected to begin for defenders, planned to start for attackers, and the strategy employed if you're part of the attacking nation.

[Suiram]

Granted, I had the benefit of some friends who had been doing Campaign since day one of the expansion when I started doing it a couple days ago (one has 35k AN already lol), but a lot of the complaints here seem unfounded, and the suggestions unnecessary.

For one, you should never be waiting around for the mobs to get there. It's easy to be stuck in a besieged mindset where you think of joining the battle at or near its outset and then leaving and getting your exp and IS (AN) award when it's over, but it's not like that at all. If you get to a zone where there's nothing happening yet, or it's one of those "all NPCs attack the fort" battles and you don't have an AoE spell/ability, or you just don't feel like doing it, just /cmap and port to another one, at worst you just wasted 140 AN which is nothing lol If you wanted you could join a battle midway, kill a couple mobs, turn in your tags and go to a different zone after 10 minutes if that's what suits you, the point is nothing is keeping you at the site of a particular battle, and there's no real need or benefit from staying there.

If they added a global message (or even a WotG-wide message) of where Campaigns are starting, trust me it would irritate you far faster than any benefit you may accrue from it. As it stands now, the /cmap loads a bit slow, sometimes 5-10 minutes slow, but as I tried to stress above there is no real benefit to arriving right when the music changes, and as most have observed the mobs haven't even arrived yet when it does.

As for finding mobs to fight, from what I've noticed they seem to take place in roughly the same sections of a zone every time, so that problem will go away after a bit of experience with the system.

I don't know, the last few days I've had a lot of fun with it. If I could make any suggestion it would just be to have /cmap update a bit faster (duh), allow C.A. warps closer to Nest and Garlaige so there's more incentive to join the battles there, and on the subject of global battle messages maybe make an "Al Zahbi Coaster" key item that will alert you when forces are preparing/advancing/attacking because pretty soon people are going to realize that Campaign trumps Besieged in every positive characteristic the two share save for skillups and maintaining decent merit camps so it'd be good to know when one is about to happen just so we don't forget about the AC and its accompanying benefits altogether.

[layoneil]

turn in your tags and go to a different zone after 10 minutes if that's what suits you, the point is nothing is keeping you at the site of a particular battle, and there's no real need or benefit from staying there.

your description of benefit seems only interested in optimizing a character's XP+AN/hr, while that is always going to be a consideration of what people want to do, it defeats the purpose of the system, which is people signing up for their nation and helping the nation complete its objectives.

if people want to try and stop San d'Oria from losing Jugner Forest to the Beastmen, warping to another Campaign area because they can't find the mobs is not beneficial.

[Lordwafik]

I'm betting as we get to run more missions, things will change. All those reinforcements you're escorting? If you're like me, sitting there teaching the newbie crafters how to make war materials? (By the way, S-E...you made my day when I got to teach my own Clothcrafting class for the war effort. Heck, yeah!) All those missions supposedly have an effect on the war, and I'm curious to see it.

Yes they do have an effect, I'm sure the effect is what you see in the attatchment.

On asura I see the bastok escort getting spammed like mad, and we're the only ones with 2 stars near supplies.

I think if a lot of people get their Ops correct, we'll see more things go higher (I'm sure if people spammed crafting, production would go up).

Or maybe this is just a result of the survey

[Suiram]

turn in your tags and go to a different zone after 10 minutes if that's what suits you, the point is nothing is keeping you at the site of a particular battle, and there's no real need or benefit from staying there.

your description of benefit seems only interested in optimizing a character's XP+AN/hr, while that is always going to be a consideration of what people want to do, it defeats the purpose of the system, which is people signing up for their nation and helping the nation complete its objectives.

if people want to try and stop San d'Oria from losing Jugner Forest to the Beastmen, warping to another Campaign area because they can't find the mobs is not beneficial.

I agree that the scenario I described was a bit of an exaggeration, and wouldn't really be in the best interests of your nation, although it wouldn't have a negative impact either, more of an 'every bit helps' kind of thing.

In practice, it's worked more for us like this: Let's say we're fighting at Grauberg. Kill a few mobs, trade in the tags for new ones, kill a couple more, trade in the tags, kill one or two, Campaign ends. Everyone checks /cmap, "Rolanberry is up", "So is Vunkerl". Maybe the first guy to Vunkerl reports that the mobs aren't there yet, or it's just an NPCs vs. Fort battle, lets the rest of the party know and ports back and we all go to Rolanberry. So basically we're doing non-stop Campaign, getting there a little late but as I tried to emphasize in my other post being late doesn't matter so much, and we're helping the attacking nation in the process, not just exploiting to get exp/AN for ourselves as the part you quoted suggests, so everyone wins. And more to my main point, in doing so we're never really waiting around for half an hour for one to start.

[Drozz]

Letting us know where our NPC allies are at would be incredibly helpful. Especially in zones like E.Necropolis.

I agree with this....Sitting in Crawlers Nest, the place is way to big to run around and try and find the battle.....I found all the NPC's way down at the end of a tunnel last night a few times, they all take off running to a battle, and leave me in the dust....I had them on /follow in case I was looking away when they took off, but they run with increased movement speed.....by the time I got out of the tunnel I was in, they were nowhere to be found.....There were about 6-7 of us there for a couple hours that would just run up and down every tunnel looking for the NPC's and 3/4th of the time we couldn't find them

[Suiram]

Hmmm, maybe ignore what I said before about it being okay to come late, since there seems to be evidence that rather than the constant 600 cap, todays patch changed the cap to be based on the amount of time you were in the campaign. (although that could be wrong, it's still a little early to be sure)

[Kyreth]

Yesterday, I was in a 4-wave battle in West Saruta. Turned in tags after #3 for a full 600xp, then got another 200 or so nailing Shadoweyes incoming wave of Gnats with a Sleepga.

Note to self: Need more AoE sleep spells when Zodiac's worth of Combat Casters hoses down entire wave and I still get aggro.

Second note to self: Kiting entire waves of ninja Yagudo is fun.

Third note to self: Actually beating an NM Yagudo so hard he -ran away- at 30 percent health felt even better than dropping it.

[Meepein]

One of the tings I have been noticing is that the NPC 'helpers' in some of these zones can be way too powerful, to the point that it is almost no use going there to defend since the NPC's will wreck stuff while you are still targetting. For example, I did a Vunkret Inlet [S] battle yesterday, and the NM was obliterated in about 5 seconds. The major NPC there (a SAM in full relic, I did not catch if he had Relic GKT but would not doubt it), was pulling out 3.3k Gekkos. The RNG NM (Three Eye something or other) got off EES and died. The rest of the mobs died quicker, no one had a chance to fight anything. Really, it was like a 30 minute wait for a fight that lasted less than a minute.

Another example of this (though this might be due to Campaign Ops) is the rediculous amount of NPC's in West Sarutabaruta [S]. The one fight I did there yesterday, we had probably somewhere near 50 NPC's (with all of the Taru BLM's manaburning like mad and Avatars AOE'ing.) It was bad, then the Cardians arrived and it got worse. While it was hilarious to watch, it sucked when people in my pt died and no one could target them to Raise due to the lag.

[Soraan]

The solution to your problem is simple. Go intercept the incoming campaign mobs like I do before they get to the defending base. In most cases, this will work fine because the Campaign mobs are rather weak VS a RDM's phalanx/stoneskin and you will almost 100% get your 600+ points by engaging them first before NPCs get a crack. Now, sometimes mobs like Gnats or Gigas come with the yags or the eyes; if this is the case, just run to the Fort and let the NPCs engage first, then pick off one mob and run far away from the Fort. You should have ample time to solo the mob before they warp and get most of the points.

[Kyreth]

Being a Windurstian, I know about the Taru Zerg Force for Sarutabaruta.

First off, high morale + prosperity = kick ass NPC's. I've seen the opposite in Bastok, where I got to be the sole PC in a squad vs. squad matchup in Pashow. (BTW, Crawler's Nest is best done via Pashow -> Rolanberry -> CN...the CA is right near the Rolanberry zoneline and Pashow's fortification is too if it's beastman controlled.

The Bastok forces were pushovers vs. the high-morale Quadav, who didn't lose a single member depsite having the entire squad pounding on one turtle and me pouring every MP (about 2K) I had into Curing them up. Hot Shot + Blast Shot from the Bastokers just wasn't cutting it.