NIN/DNC tanking capabilities? (looking your way ruke)

[LinktheDeme]

I was wondering since dancer has curaga, cures, and vokes. I was wondering how nin/dnc fairs. It seems like it will make it into a paladin with shadows if the hate properties from the voke and cures are good enough. Anyways are steps accurate enough as a sj to make this a possibility?

P.S. update your live journal

[evilpaul]

We need at least two or three 'Ruke update your LJ' threads, it's been so long and the "I'm on a different continent" excuse no longer applies.

[Enygma55]

Needing TP to perform dances might kill this idea right off the bat.

[Ryko]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

[Eaglestrike]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm not sure he meant against an HNM.

[Ryko]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm not sure he meant against an HNM.

The hell would you sub anything but WAR as a nin in exp, dyna, limbus, etc.

[Eaglestrike]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm not sure he meant against an HNM.

The hell would you sub anything but WAR as a nin in exp, dyna, limbus, etc.

In certain situations, I believe that some NIN's won't use berserk, leaving /war to be provoke and double attack. /dnc would offer provoke, additional enfeebling, cure and curaga, not to mention endrain for the entire party. It could give a small group some nice benefits while still letting one of the melee jobs keep their shadows and /nin and it wouldn't completely nuke a ninjas hate management ability.

[Aymee]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm interested to see how DNC ends up fitting into HNM activities just for this reason. My server is 90% rednecked in regards to never using melee attacks for absolutely anything, ever. Ever. The system shuns people who prefer playing melee from every joining any actual HNMLSes. If the DNC buffs/debuffs end up being that beneficial, *gasp* dare they have someone melee a faf? Unheardof! There's dnc/sam I suppose, but 60TP every 3min isn't going to be worth a PT slot.
Knowing how absurdly great of lengths LSes have gone before to keep melee out of HNM, they'll probably all lvl SAM on their lvl75 mules and alt accounts and rotate them in to give the DNCs 200TP a pop. Insanely inefficient, but I can entirely imagine it.

...Aspir Samba with a rdm/nin or nin/drk tank sounds potentially amusing though...


As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

DNC voke requires 1 and uses 2 finishes (what wiki says at least), wouldn't it be difficult to keep them charged? Recast is 30 seconds. NIN tank in most anything even close to a challenging situation already requires keeping track of a lot of things and fussy gear... having to worry about outstanding accuracy and keeping a certain TP build could result in a mess. Too much to do and keep track of usually results in horrible results.

[Ryko]

In a really melee heavy shell it's funny to watch people not used to it try to do it.

[LinktheDeme]

As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

Was refering to the hate generated by the cures.

[Wizerd]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm interested to see how DNC ends up fitting into HNM activities just for this reason. My server is 90% rednecked in regards to never using melee attacks for absolutely anything, ever. Ever. The system shuns people who prefer playing melee from every joining any actual HNMLSes. If the DNC buffs/debuffs end up being that beneficial, *gasp* dare they have someone melee a faf? Unheardof! There's dnc/sam I suppose, but 60TP every 3min isn't going to be worth a PT slot.
Knowing how absurdly great of lengths LSes have gone before to keep melee out of HNM, they'll probably all lvl SAM on their lvl75 mules and alt accounts and rotate them in to give the DNCs 200TP a pop. Insanely inefficient, but I can entirely imagine it.

...Aspir Samba with a rdm/nin or nin/drk tank sounds potentially amusing though...


As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

DNC voke requires 1 and uses 2 finishes (what wiki says at least), wouldn't it be difficult to keep them charged? Recast is 30 seconds. NIN tank in most anything even close to a challenging situation already requires keeping track of a lot of things and fussy gear... having to worry about outstanding accuracy and keeping a certain TP build could result in a mess. Too much to do and keep track of usually results in horrible results.

Quickstep (and I assume the other two as well) generates 2 FMs per successful use. 4 FMs per 30 seconds potentially, can give you a buffer for if you contually miss a couple steps in a row, so that's not a problem on something not overly evasive.

[Izzy]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm interested to see how DNC ends up fitting into HNM activities just for this reason. My server is 90% rednecked in regards to never using melee attacks for absolutely anything, ever. Ever. The system shuns people who prefer playing melee from every joining any actual HNMLSes. If the DNC buffs/debuffs end up being that beneficial, *gasp* dare they have someone melee a faf? Unheardof! There's dnc/sam I suppose, but 60TP every 3min isn't going to be worth a PT slot.
Knowing how absurdly great of lengths LSes have gone before to keep melee out of HNM, they'll probably all lvl SAM on their lvl75 mules and alt accounts and rotate them in to give the DNCs 200TP a pop. Insanely inefficient, but I can entirely imagine it.

...Aspir Samba with a rdm/nin or nin/drk tank sounds potentially amusing though...


As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

DNC voke requires 1 and uses 2 finishes (what wiki says at least), wouldn't it be difficult to keep them charged? Recast is 30 seconds. NIN tank in most anything even close to a challenging situation already requires keeping track of a lot of things and fussy gear... having to worry about outstanding accuracy and keeping a certain TP build could result in a mess. Too much to do and keep track of usually results in horrible results.

I don't really see how being smart and not throwing 8 Ridill WAR's on any HNM where there's undesirable TP attacks is "Rednecked".

Next time you fight Tiamat (if you even do fight Tiamat), throw a TP burn worth of melee on it and watch it destroy you.

[Genosync]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm interested to see how DNC ends up fitting into HNM activities just for this reason. My server is 90% rednecked in regards to never using melee attacks for absolutely anything, ever. Ever. The system shuns people who prefer playing melee from every joining any actual HNMLSes. If the DNC buffs/debuffs end up being that beneficial, *gasp* dare they have someone melee a faf? Unheardof! There's dnc/sam I suppose, but 60TP every 3min isn't going to be worth a PT slot.
Knowing how absurdly great of lengths LSes have gone before to keep melee out of HNM, they'll probably all lvl SAM on their lvl75 mules and alt accounts and rotate them in to give the DNCs 200TP a pop. Insanely inefficient, but I can entirely imagine it.

...Aspir Samba with a rdm/nin or nin/drk tank sounds potentially amusing though...


As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

DNC voke requires 1 and uses 2 finishes (what wiki says at least), wouldn't it be difficult to keep them charged? Recast is 30 seconds. NIN tank in most anything even close to a challenging situation already requires keeping track of a lot of things and fussy gear... having to worry about outstanding accuracy and keeping a certain TP build could result in a mess. Too much to do and keep track of usually results in horrible results.

I don't really see how being smart and not throwing 8 Ridill WAR's on any HNM where there's undesirable TP attacks is "Rednecked".

Next time you fight Tiamat (if you even do fight Tiamat), throw a TP burn worth of melee on it and watch it destroy you.

try like 4 wars with ridills and monk's roll. it's actually kinda cool.

[loial]

If dancer debuffs are melee accuracy based, then any 75 melee should be able to land the debuffs on the mob. I'm not sure what the recast on the Animated (provoke) flourish is, but if its short enough, a NIN could build hate pretty quick. And at only 10TP per voke, a NIN would feed only a little bit of TP to get the TP necessary to voke. Any extra TP is gravy for curing.

[LeothaSamurai]

Anyone tested the hate on Movment%+ jig? From what I understand it doesnt cost any tp at all. I dont know for sure, but sounds like it could bust some old /brd like stuff, all depends i guess tho.

[Ryko]

Melee is doable (and honestly, encouraged) on cerb and faf, tia and khim would be a bitch.

I'm interested to see how DNC ends up fitting into HNM activities just for this reason. My server is 90% rednecked in regards to never using melee attacks for absolutely anything, ever. Ever. The system shuns people who prefer playing melee from every joining any actual HNMLSes. If the DNC buffs/debuffs end up being that beneficial, *gasp* dare they have someone melee a faf? Unheardof! There's dnc/sam I suppose, but 60TP every 3min isn't going to be worth a PT slot.
Knowing how absurdly great of lengths LSes have gone before to keep melee out of HNM, they'll probably all lvl SAM on their lvl75 mules and alt accounts and rotate them in to give the DNCs 200TP a pop. Insanely inefficient, but I can entirely imagine it.

...Aspir Samba with a rdm/nin or nin/drk tank sounds potentially amusing though...


As for the original topic, there is a small issue with wanting to use DNC cures to help let a nin/dnc tank. Part of a NIN tanking is the fact it shouldn't be getting beat up all that much. The 'paladin with shadows' idea is nice, but pld/nin is kinda already that covered. Cures? Obviously there. Voke? Err... Flash can qualify from an enmity point of view.

DNC voke requires 1 and uses 2 finishes (what wiki says at least), wouldn't it be difficult to keep them charged? Recast is 30 seconds. NIN tank in most anything even close to a challenging situation already requires keeping track of a lot of things and fussy gear... having to worry about outstanding accuracy and keeping a certain TP build could result in a mess. Too much to do and keep track of usually results in horrible results.

I don't really see how being smart and not throwing 8 Ridill WAR's on any HNM where there's undesirable TP attacks is "Rednecked".

Next time you fight Tiamat (if you even do fight Tiamat), throw a TP burn worth of melee on it and watch it destroy you.

If you're in a position where tiamat's attacks aside from back to back wings are downright fucking you up you probably need smarter tanks/healers/melees. It's not really hard for a samurai or even a party of melees to do insane damage on a mob like that and not run a real risk.

[Izzy]

If you're in a position where tiamat's attacks aside from back to back wings are downright fucking you up you probably need smarter tanks/healers/melees. It's not really hard for a samurai or even a party of melees to do insane damage on a mob like that and not run a real risk.

That's kinda what I was implying. Obviously you're gonna be able to withstand multiple back to back breaths etc.

@Genosync

Yea that actually would probley work. We usually do the Monk's Roll + Hundred Fists on a certain Salvage boss and it's pretty amazing. (I don't remember which one Q_Q)

[Ryko]

If you're in a position where tiamat's attacks aside from back to back wings are downright fucking you up you probably need smarter tanks/healers/melees. It's not really hard for a samurai or even a party of melees to do insane damage on a mob like that and not run a real risk.

That's kinda what I was implying. Obviously you're gonna be able to withstand multiple back to back breaths etc.

Or a wing, a breath, a terror, a roar. I mean you have a 6% chance it'll back to back wing and that's still completely determined by whether or not your melees know to back off for a second after they see the virus icon over their heads. Pussyfooting imo is a sign that you honestly dont think the people you recruit are smart enough to follow 1 simple instruction (or I guess 2, dont sneak attack more than you trick attack)

[Krenna]

Could always pit the NIN/DNC (on things you cant melee well) with the samurais for Shikikoyo. 200 TP would last a good 5 minutes id assume, if your conservative about it. D:

[layoneil]

Anyone tested the hate on Movment%+ jig? From what I understand it doesnt cost any tp at all. I dont know for sure, but sounds like it could bust some old /brd like stuff, all depends i guess tho.

Spectral Jig requires no TP and can be used anywhere.

Chocobo Jig is Lv 55 and not subbable unless you're talking about DNC/NIN tanking.