WotG Storyline Discussion (Spoilers)

[Lucavi]

Zied snapped him out of it. Then the Zilart showed up (a la Ocelot at the end of MGS2's Tanker chapter), emo'd about how they aren't perfect and that they have to kill everyone to be perfect, and summoned the Crystal Warriors to start by killing you. Raogrimm becomes the Shadowlord one last time to fight them knowing he will lose ("one does not have to be a prophet to foresee the outcome of this battle"), sacrificing his life to allow you to escape.

Back on topic: has anyone considered that the beastmen aren't after the elemental crystals used for synthing but the actual mother crystals? The established information about the shadowlord indicates he "fell into contact with a dark power resting beneath the northlands". Odin is a fantastic guess and the presence of his kindred army (and the scene of Emeline singing the lay to his crystal) pretty much confirms that they did work together very closely. HOWEVER, Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands". However, the Vhazl shard IS resting deep beneath the northlands and it can be inferred that Diabolos is its guardian. Diabolos is a pretty dark power if you ask me, and he is the master of the dream world of Dynamis (the final you-don't-get-a-resting-place of the Shadowlord after he's finally killed for good, stated to be the result of a pact between him and Diabolos). Raogrimm mentions before he goes SSJ5 one last time that he "can still draw power from this land"; this seems to indicate that his shadowlord power came not from Odin but from the Vhazl crystal. It is further mentioned in one of the Snoll Tzar cutscenes that Raogrimm met up with Odin -after- he was already the shadowlord at that point, and it is suggested that he may have been manipulating or controlling him somehow.

So, assuming the facts we have now point to Raogrimm drawing his Shadowlord power from Vhazl, he must then be after the other shards for their power (he is as strong as he is now from just ONE shard- think of how much power he could have with even just one more). The Zilart also mention his existence causes quite a lot of "noise" in the crystals- perhaps a result of him drawing out their power?

I like all of this a lot. My question, though, is why Zied didn't "snap him out of it" the first time? War Cloud was with Volker when they fought the Shadow Lord the first time, so why would it have not worked then, but worked 20 years later? Maybe being freshly ressurected, the "Dynamis Lord" part of Raogrimm had not had time to fully manifest itself?

I think the Shadow Lord we fought in the present was maybe 25% of the "DL" persona, and mostly Raogrimm, since he was freshly awakened from his nap. The DL we fight in Dynamis must be close to 100% "DL" persona, given the massive increase in power and the fact that no mere group of 6 adventurers (the number that can fight the regular Shadow Lord) could hope to take him down.

Maybe the one we'll fight is closer to a 50/50 mix? That could either mean that he's stronger than the Shadow Lord, but weaker than the Dynamis Lord...

..or it could mean that he's a perfect fusion of the powers, and thus, will be far stronger than both. A perfect unification of emotions generally leads to a more powerful entity, rather than relying on pure rage or pure serenity.

[Yutuyu]

"Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands"

That's not true true actually. The battlefield where "Flames for the Dead" is fought is actually in the ground. You fall into the hole in one of the lowest areas in Ulegeurand and walk around. So yeah, it is VERY consistent with the location of Odin's crystal.

EDIT: And about Raogrimm, I could be wrong, but doesn't Cornelia (the long dead one) play a role and making him come to his senses during the 5-2 fight? Like her ghost or something.

[Toksyuryel]

Oh, you are right, I had forgotten that actual path taken to reach there XD lol been so long, was just going off the name of the zone pretty much. I suppose it could be either, or it could be both. This will hopefully be cleared up at some point during this expansion

Of note: the Hydra Corps "mysteriously vanish" before the Shadowlord is "defeated". So either we're not them, or we don't get to fight him.

On Corneilia's ghost: it was actually both. Zied called him by name and this kick-started his memory, and it was then that a ghostly apparition of her appeared before him to finally bring him back to his senses. Then the Zilart had to come and fuck everything up I hate the Zilart ; ;

[Kyreth]

Getting back to, y'know...WoTG spoilers....

Is it just me, or has anyone else gotten a really strong feeling as to the true identity of our masked Warlock Warlord, and why?

Spoiler in tinyprint-

Hint: She's supposed to be in the Northlands...and isn't. Go explore around the Fort when Windurst owns it and one of the Tarutaru might give you the same idea.

[BRP]

"Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands"

That's not true true actually. The battlefield where "Flames for the Dead" is fought is actually in the ground. You fall into the hole in one of the lowest areas in Ulegeurand and walk around. So yeah, it is VERY consistent with the location of Odin's crystal.

EDIT: And about Raogrimm, I could be wrong, but doesn't Cornelia (the long dead one) play a role and making him come to his senses during the 5-2 fight? Like her ghost or something.

Um... Bearclaw Pinnacle is at the top. You ride the winds to the "pinnacle" of the mountain.

[Kyreth]

I was in Tavanzia after just finishing CoP 3-5, and remember one of the NPC's mentioning how the beastmen were gathering crystals to wake their dark divinity.

Perhaps given enough power, Odin can manifest like he does near Al Zahbi, only more so?

Crystals in and of themselves can be harnessed as power sources, like Cid does with his engines. We know beastmen gather their crystals into huge "clusters" thanks to the Neo Crystal War event, which makes me think of them as being much like miniature versions of the mothercrystals...which as we all know are part of one massive power generation system for the Zilart.

Also, Grauberg is mentioned as a source of high-quality crystal mining. Chocobo digging is going to be interesting once we get birds going.

[Max™]

Thinking about it, didn't the masked warlock singsong some?

Regarding the SL/DL thing, I bet/hope that it's going to be a big ass epic fucking battle in Xarc, a campaign style fight, with a Shadow Lord on par with the toughest mobs in the game, and like 80-100 people bum rushing him and dying in droves.

God that would be unbelieveably awesome, charging up the hill with hordes of fellow players, slaughtering our way through orcs, quads, trolls, imps, yags, frogs, everything til we reach the top and rush him, and only after he's been defeated outside can you access the inside and finish that part of the missions, involving a fight with a weakened version of him...


Better yet, we lose the fight, go up there to kick his ass, all the relic weapon NPC's with us, and then when he gets to say 50% he "2 hours" and dezones our asses into limbo.


Just thoughts on what would be cool to see, doubt much if any of it could work, but I hope he isn't just contained to some dinky 6 man fight.

I wanna see the full sized, huge ass, TRUE Shadow Lord standing at the gates of Zvahl laughing as he sends wave after wave of demons and fomors and beastman at us.

[Xanthe]

I wanna see the full sized, huge ass, TRUE Shadow Lord standing at the gates of Zvahl laughing as he sends wave after wave of demons and fomors and beastman at us.

You mean like clearing this?

[Toksyuryel]

Only without the cool music probably D: Maybe the allied NPCs will do chainspell stun for us :D

Regarding this whole Bearclaw Pinnacle business, I'm gonna just go bloody check for myself... when I wake up. Going to bed now >.>

EDIT: You made a typo in your link. Here, let me fix that for you...

[Dein]

I like all of this a lot. My question, though, is why Zied didn't "snap him out of it" the first time? War Cloud was with Volker when they fought the Shadow Lord the first time, so why would it have not worked then, but worked 20 years later? Maybe being freshly ressurected, the "Dynamis Lord" part of Raogrimm had not had time to fully manifest itself?

I think the Shadow Lord we fought in the present was maybe 25% of the "DL" persona, and mostly Raogrimm, since he was freshly awakened from his nap. The DL we fight in Dynamis must be close to 100% "DL" persona, given the massive increase in power and the fact that no mere group of 6 adventurers (the number that can fight the regular Shadow Lord) could hope to take him down.

Maybe the one we'll fight is closer to a 50/50 mix? That could either mean that he's stronger than the Shadow Lord, but weaker than the Dynamis Lord...

..or it could mean that he's a perfect fusion of the powers, and thus, will be far stronger than both. A perfect unification of emotions generally leads to a more powerful entity, rather than relying on pure rage or pure serenity.

I believe Zeid said that at the first battle he only suspected that the Shadow Lord was originally a Galkan and after he knew for sure he was able to do something about it. I can't really confirm this too much as it's been a good while since I did that mission and I no longer have an account to use. Like I and someone else mentioned before, the Crystal Warriors only attack us because they're made to by the Zilart who view all the races as a scourge to the crystals and planet.

My guess is that WotG will have the Shadow Lord appear as a boss mid way through the story or just a little later and you help defeat him in combat and seal him away. SE could then easily make the last months of the Crystal War reveal some hidden evil that was working behind the scenes, use that as a reason why the beastmen still resisted, and then have you run off and fight the evil in the shadows thus omitting it from ever showing up in history.

[Hanyoko]

Isnt the last ZM battle taking place in the "power plant" for sky. I recall that being a huge crystal.

Sky porters need to be repaired with a crystal.
Need the various headstone crystals.

So much ancient technology seems based on crystals.

If our synthesis crystals are indeed similar to magicite. Its almost like our signet/sigil/sanction (hmm all S) may be a magical attempt to mimic the eye of altana. And on defeat it crystalizes part of the empty within them.

[Kaylia]

There is no Throne Room in .dat, so we might not see any BC there. Not that they couldnt modify it to add the area.

Uh there's a Throne Room [S]

I stand corrected then There was none listed in the old "area" thread


On topic, the final fight will be against what cause the time disturbance I bet. So, Atomos probably.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Zied snapped him out of it. Then the Zilart showed up (a la Ocelot at the end of MGS2's Tanker chapter), emo'd about how they aren't perfect and that they have to kill everyone to be perfect, and summoned the Crystal Warriors to start by killing you. Raogrimm becomes the Shadowlord one last time to fight them knowing he will lose ("one does not have to be a prophet to foresee the outcome of this battle"), sacrificing his life to allow you to escape.

Back on topic: has anyone considered that the beastmen aren't after the elemental crystals used for synthing but the actual mother crystals? The established information about the shadowlord indicates he "fell into contact with a dark power resting beneath the northlands". Odin is a fantastic guess and the presence of his kindred army (and the scene of Emeline singing the lay to his crystal) pretty much confirms that they did work together very closely. HOWEVER, Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands". However, the Vhazl shard IS resting deep beneath the northlands and it can be inferred that Diabolos is its guardian. Diabolos is a pretty dark power if you ask me, and he is the master of the dream world of Dynamis (the final you-don't-get-a-resting-place of the Shadowlord after he's finally killed for good, stated to be the result of a pact between him and Diabolos). Raogrimm mentions before he goes SSJ5 one last time that he "can still draw power from this land"; this seems to indicate that his shadowlord power came not from Odin but from the Vhazl crystal. It is further mentioned in one of the Snoll Tzar cutscenes that Raogrimm met up with Odin -after- he was already the shadowlord at that point, and it is suggested that he may have been manipulating or controlling him somehow.

So, assuming the facts we have now point to Raogrimm drawing his Shadowlord power from Vhazl, he must then be after the other shards for their power (he is as strong as he is now from just ONE shard- think of how much power he could have with even just one more). The Zilart also mention his existence causes quite a lot of "noise" in the crystals- perhaps a result of him drawing out their power?

I like that Diabolos idea, but it could have been that strong piece of magicite (forgot its name...), since magicite seems to be the result of the light of the crystal and the Emptiness. However, something probably happened with Diabolos. Something tells me maybe the SL was disrupting Diabolos (since he was probably absorbing the energy of the Vahzl crystal, as you said).

Also, don't forget about Atomos!

[Yutuyu]

"Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands"

That's not true true actually. The battlefield where "Flames for the Dead" is fought is actually in the ground. You fall into the hole in one of the lowest areas in Ulegeurand and walk around. So yeah, it is VERY consistent with the location of Odin's crystal.

EDIT: And about Raogrimm, I could be wrong, but doesn't Cornelia (the long dead one) play a role and making him come to his senses during the 5-2 fight? Like her ghost or something.

Um... Bearclaw Pinnacle is at the top. You ride the winds to the "pinnacle" of the mountain.

No, they were just lazy and used the zone for the bottom of the area and the top. You have to go to the very bottom of Ulegeruand in order to enter and there's no indication at all of going to the top via the winds.

Claiming that the Winds that serve as the BC entrance takes you to the top makes very little sense seeing as how they exist as the entrance AT the top (Brothers entrance) and at the lowest point.

But if you have any actual evidence beyond your opinion to back up it, I'd like to see it.

[Septimus]

Zied snapped him out of it. Then the Zilart showed up (a la Ocelot at the end of MGS2's Tanker chapter), emo'd about how they aren't perfect and that they have to kill everyone to be perfect, and summoned the Crystal Warriors to start by killing you. Raogrimm becomes the Shadowlord one last time to fight them knowing he will lose ("one does not have to be a prophet to foresee the outcome of this battle"), sacrificing his life to allow you to escape.

Back on topic: has anyone considered that the beastmen aren't after the elemental crystals used for synthing but the actual mother crystals? The established information about the shadowlord indicates he "fell into contact with a dark power resting beneath the northlands". Odin is a fantastic guess and the presence of his kindred army (and the scene of Emeline singing the lay to his crystal) pretty much confirms that they did work together very closely. HOWEVER, Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands". However, the Vhazl shard IS resting deep beneath the northlands and it can be inferred that Diabolos is its guardian. Diabolos is a pretty dark power if you ask me, and he is the master of the dream world of Dynamis (the final you-don't-get-a-resting-place of the Shadowlord after he's finally killed for good, stated to be the result of a pact between him and Diabolos). Raogrimm mentions before he goes SSJ5 one last time that he "can still draw power from this land"; this seems to indicate that his shadowlord power came not from Odin but from the Vhazl crystal. It is further mentioned in one of the Snoll Tzar cutscenes that Raogrimm met up with Odin -after- he was already the shadowlord at that point, and it is suggested that he may have been manipulating or controlling him somehow.

So, assuming the facts we have now point to Raogrimm drawing his Shadowlord power from Vhazl, he must then be after the other shards for their power (he is as strong as he is now from just ONE shard- think of how much power he could have with even just one more). The Zilart also mention his existence causes quite a lot of "noise" in the crystals- perhaps a result of him drawing out their power?

I like that Diabolos idea, but it could have been that strong piece of magicite (forgot its name...), since magicite seems to be the result of the light of the crystal and the Emptiness. However, something probably happened with Diabolos. Something tells me maybe the SL was disrupting Diabolos (since he was probably absorbing the energy of the Vahzl crystal, as you said).

Also, don't forget about Atomos!

The magicite that they had during the Northlands expedition was the Star of Tavnazia, part of the Magicite that was created when Esha'ntarl tried the banish the Keeper of the Apocalypse from Prishe with the Eye of Altana. When Raogrimm came into contact with the crystal, he hear a voice from within it, and that voice is what granted him power. In most likelihood it was Promathia.

As to Diabolos's role, that is a horse of a different color, so far his actions have been mostly benevolent-ish. (During CoP he tried to save people by drawing them into Dynamis instead of just letting them die because of Bahamut's deal.) During the Dynamis - Xarcabard cutscene Diabolos was simply an unknown disembodied voice, had Raogrimm made a pact with him I would imagine that he would have shown some familiarity with the speaker. As he did not, I imagine that RotZ Dynamis was slowly corrupted by the Shadowlord after his powers had been sealed. As for why the Hydra Corps, the Vanguard, and Kindred were pulled in there, hopefully we will find out in this expansion.

[Khamsin]

"Odin's protocrystal is high up in Bearclaw Pinnacle, far from resting "deep beneath the northlands"

That's not true true actually. The battlefield where "Flames for the Dead" is fought is actually in the ground. You fall into the hole in one of the lowest areas in Ulegeurand and walk around. So yeah, it is VERY consistent with the location of Odin's crystal.

EDIT: And about Raogrimm, I could be wrong, but doesn't Cornelia (the long dead one) play a role and making him come to his senses during the 5-2 fight? Like her ghost or something.

Um... Bearclaw Pinnacle is at the top. You ride the winds to the "pinnacle" of the mountain.

No, they were just lazy and used the zone for the bottom of the area and the top. You have to go to the very bottom of Ulegeruand in order to enter and there's no indication at all of going to the top via the winds.

Claiming that the Winds that serve as the BC entrance takes you to the top makes very little sense seeing as how they exist as the entrance AT the top (Brothers entrance) and at the lowest point.

But if you have any actual evidence beyond your opinion to back up it, I'd like to see it.

Yeah, Bearclaw Pinnacle is the lowest point, and deep beneath the Northlands.

I know it doesn't make much sense, given the name, but hey... I didn't make it.

[Max™]

I wanna see the full sized, huge ass, TRUE Shadow Lord standing at the gates of Zvahl laughing as he sends wave after wave of demons and fomors and beastman at us.

You mean like clearing this?

Without having to spend a million gil, wait 3 days, and lose exp...

Oh, and maybe they could do something new for a change, and have the mobs up there drop gear.

Plus, having the Hydra Corp with us, instead of trying to eat our spleens, but yeah, pretty much like Dyna Xarc except what it was a dream based on.

[Toksyuryel]

That reminds me. They have said they were not going to make relics any easier to obtain, so how are they going to deal with the fact that they were widely and easily available at that time? So we save the world (again) and get to the highest possible rank/decorations and the NPCs aren't grateful enough to let us spend Notes or whatever on some big numbars? This is starting to look like a recipe for retcon-disaster (granted the apparent total lack of any ancient currency trade is already a pretty major retcon. I guess it would have been too hard for them to balance making it easier to get with adding a bunch more things to spend it on. Oi.)

[Rocl]

That reminds me. They have said they were not going to make relics any easier to obtain, so how are they going to deal with the fact that they were widely and easily available at that time? So we save the world (again) and get to the highest possible rank/decorations and the NPCs aren't grateful enough to let us spend Notes or whatever on some big numbars? This is starting to look like a recipe for retcon-disaster (granted the apparent total lack of any ancient currency trade is already a pretty major retcon. I guess it would have been too hard for them to balance making it easier to get with adding a bunch more things to spend it on. Oi.)

Hmm? The only vendors in the expansion so far take gil because they're from Jeuno, and there's reasons for all the quest rewards being in gil. (Wyatt is from Jeuno, and the Bastok guy explains it)

[Toksyuryel]

I understand that, that wasn't really what I was complaining about, just the fact that there isn't a single NPC in the past with a job for you to do willing to pay you out-of-pocket that isn't from Jeuno. It just feels awkward to me. But I guess we're all used to that by now... and I'm sure I'll get over it when we finally get some kick-ass CoP-quality cutscenes :D

Are there any other NPCs that have strange new things to say like those mithra in Windurst? Maybe there are more puzzle pieces out there already...