RPGamer FFXI Wings Dev. Interview

[BRP]

Off the top of my head: A magical tank, that can put up an instant cast Stoneskin most of the time to absorb damage. getting hit for 0 will keep hate on you because you simply because you won't lose it. Becomes gear intensive late game to still have your stoneskin be worth a damn vs HNMs, and refresh would be vital.

RDM. BLU or WHM too perhaps.

A parrying tank. Has a seigan-like parrying stance that absorbs 80% of incoming attacks. Similar to if samurai couldn't DD and decided it wanted to play a tanking role. Which it won't.

THF, NIN, COR, and SAM all have A- parry. You don't even need an ability if they just boost what Parry Skill does.

A counter-tank. Make Counterstance counter WS's as well. Breaking MNK? Probably. Or add a job that does this, holds hate with damage but needs to have hate to deal maximum damage.

Sounds like the new WAR change?

A Guard tank. lol

Same thing as Parry.

A Enfeebling tank. where Scholar is RDM with no melee or enfeebles, do the opposite. Make a job that can tank with Phalanx and Ice Spikes, RDMs can do this now if they're retarded, But they know they're more useful on the back line. Make a job with these skills into a frontline job.

Hmmm.


If SE fixed bloodtanking(VIT/Defense damage mitigation), every melee job becomes a tank on anything IT or under and greatly increases the chances of another job tanking IT++ and higher. They really don't need to add anything more than more than jobs that can replace BRD or Hasters. They are enough Damage Dealers, enough Healers, and tanking is only limited because you are still basically paper when you aren't hiding behind a shield or shadow.

[Ryko]

Just have Vit past a certain point against a monster's strength cut directly into the mob's D rating as well as the STR /vit atk/def comparison. Would make stat reducing spells actually worth a damn too.

[Spira]

Ultimately, there really arent that many means by which players can tank.
They're talking about the basic concept more than the means really.

Paladin - blood tanking, reduced damage, self curing
Ninja - evasion tanking, damage mitigation with shadows

everything in between, Parrying, Guard tanking, Stoneskinning, is mostly a subset of the above two.. because u're either:
1. reducing damage but still having to take it
2. entirely mitigating damage through some spell or ability on a regular basis..

This is why I think they came up with the BST jug pet Snarl thing to give the jug pets hate, because it's conceptually different.
Beastmaster - pet tanking, debuffs are less important and casualty is inconsequential.

Of course, the concept fell through, cos jug pets def is thin as paper and Snarl isn't quite enough hate.


...on another note, i'm happy that they'll be introducing more ToA content. Theres still the 3 islands connected to the stone tablets, and the Nyzul relics to finish off

[Ryko]

The point is theyre kind of dumb since paladins outside of remora stopped using their faces to tank a long ass time ago. They havent moved out of early 2005, and it's kind of sad. As for there not really being a way to make another tank, they could and should move monks up in tanking capability. There's really no reason why guard doesn't go off more often, take it an extra step and make it so that a mob doesn't gain TP when an attack is guarded. Granted they don't need to make a new job for the purpose of tanking but they sure as hell can revamp how this game works defensively by quite a bit. That and they might wanna do it if they ever plan on making volatile hate worth a damn again outside of low man or exp situations. SE seems to have their heads in the sand when it comes to tanking, but god knows theyre gonna do something fucking convoluted as shit and give RDMs more abilities to do so.

[Tekki]

Hmm I have a wall o text opinion on this matter and will post tomorrow.

[Delekii]

They should have asked why is scholar useless for 50+ exp parties and why is dancer useless endgame on most hnms since it will miss or land zeros.

Pssst

Scholar isn't a main healer type. Check the thread, the more info that spout out about scholar, the more apparent it becomes that is a magical DD.

Oh, so you must be talking about all those BLMs that get parties in 50+ exp parties these days then, right?

If scholar is indeed a "magical dd", it is even more useless than acting as a healer. There is a reason that all the BLM solo camps 1-75 are packed 90% of the time, and it's because Magic DD in 90% of exp parties is inefficient compared with the options.

[LinktheDeme]

They should have asked why is scholar useless for 50+ exp parties and why is dancer useless endgame on most hnms since it will miss or land zeros.

You've done SCH in exp parties 50+ often enough to know?

And DNC on HNMs?

Or is it just still theory?

How is dancer going to do with B dagger skill on sky gods, anything kited, or anything with high def and high evasion?

Scholars spells for exp pt by the time they take effect a melee could have zerged it down in half the time, which means it will get put in the blm category for damage. So yea no ones gonna wanna invite them for exp pts when a job can do better damage or a different job can heal better.

[BRP]

How is dancer going to do with B dagger skill on sky gods, anything kited, or anything with high def and high evasion?

The difference between A+ and B at 75 is 26. (A-, which is what WARs have with axe, is 19). They get at least one Acc trait(11+), I don't think they get more though. The difference is rather small(5-8% hit rate) and shouldn't be too much of an issue with the gear Dancers get + food and buffs/debuffs. I'd think Dancers would have more problem giving TP rather than hitting. For situations like that or kiting(they have C+ throwing, so who knows) they can always sub /SAM. On the other hand, more situations are looking like Dynamis/Limbus/etc where you are basically fighting monsters at an exp level but with more exp... and there are very often adds on the side DNC could TP up with. Dancer also has some pretty decent h2h skill, which is quite a bit boost for Salvage, making them much more functional at the start.

Scholar on the other hand should be able to make buy in the same way SMN or BLM can. A WHM+RDM is common enough and there is hardly a difference with WHM+SCH.

[Maxxthepenguin]

A WHM+RDM is common enough and there is hardly a difference with WHM+SCH.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Refresh is really really important man

[LinktheDeme]

How is dancer going to do with B dagger skill on sky gods, anything kited, or anything with high def and high evasion?

The difference between A+ and B at 75 is 26. (A-, which is what WARs have with axe, is 19). They get at least one Acc trait(11+), I don't think they get more though. The difference is rather small(5-8% hit rate) and shouldn't be too much of an issue with the gear Dancers get + food and buffs/debuffs. I'd think Dancers would have more problem giving TP rather than hitting. For situations like that or kiting(they have C+ throwing, so who knows) they can always sub /SAM. On the other hand, more situations are looking like Dynamis/Limbus/etc where you are basically fighting monsters at an exp level but with more exp... and there are very often adds on the side DNC could TP up with. Dancer also has some pretty decent h2h skill, which is quite a bit boost for Salvage, making them much more functional at the start.

Scholar on the other hand should be able to make buy in the same way SMN or BLM can. A WHM+RDM is common enough and there is hardly a difference with WHM+SCH.

TP was what i was talking about I don't think they'll be able to TP fast enough to be even considered a main healer all they'll be able to do is maybe help a bit for SCs and a light support less than brd cor and rdm on hnms which i think will be a problem. This is aside from salvage since salvage is pretty easy to hit mobs.

I also feel scholar will be a little out of place without being able to function in pts post 50 too much and not being able to manaburn as well. Though with a rdm they can just function as a main healer i suppose.

[wood]

Hope Nvidia fixes their shit. I can't play FFXI on my laptop because of it.

yay for 2-3 FPS at the fucking auction house.

You CAN...... if you install XP

[BRP]

A WHM+RDM is common enough and there is hardly a difference with WHM+SCH.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Refresh is really really important man

Typo, SCH+RDM.

[Max™]

Sch+Dnc?

Dnc doesn't need Refresh, and Sch wouldn't be main healing in that situation?

[levish]

Aside: lol @ nvidia fix. Don't look our way, it's not our problem. When a whole industry of games work and one game doesn't, What's the odds that it's a problem with the graphics driver that works on everything else, compared to the one game. Especially when numerous people with that driver can run fine on that game. I have a 7950GT OC I got from work, and my flatmate has a 6800GT OC, And another friend has an 8800GTX Watercooled. All 3 run FFXI at max frame rate with no issues. I run 1600x1200 with 2400x background and get 30fps in Dynamis with max drawdistance, even with bard songs and Firaga IIIs flying.

I'd say BS unless you have shadows on med or off. Shadows off I can pull 30fps off except for bard songs and firagras which still lag the schnitzel out of me and I've got a 3.0ghz c2d and a 8800GTS OC and 4gb of ram etc etc ...

Side note, ;_; no engine update ... Eve-Online is doing it now and looking great. If EQ2 and WoW does it and i'll be a sad panda.

unless the next SE mmorpg doesn't suck, but since they seem to say that they made no real progress on it other than using the white engine ... ;_;

[Zragnarok]

-Fans everywhere have been asking, why not another tank class?
-I knew you were going to ask that question. The way we see it, there are two types of tank type jobs, evasion like the Ninja or damage soaking like the Paladin. We didn't see anything that was original enough, and we didn't want to just clone these existing jobs. We know that there is a tough time to finding tanks, so we've decided to adjust existing jobs to be able to tank in certain setups. Expect to see job adjustments coming soon.

A lot of ppl seems to have overlooked that sentence by SE. There will be new tank but they will come from one of the existing job and only under certain setups. But I agree with a lot of you, a fresh new tank job would have been a really good thing instead of just trying to change the existing jobs to fit.

[Septimus]

Change Phalanx II to Phalanxga (the way it was supposed to be originally), give Red Mages a real Phalanx II (self only, because we roll like that) that uses a damage reduction calculation like (Enhancing magic/5)-2 for 42 MP (double Phalanx's cost), then give Red Mages a job ability that doubles the power of their enhancing magic spells. (Hell, you could even do that at the expense of spells from sub job to cut out /NIN dependency.) So Phalanx and Pahalnxga do 28 damage reduction for 300 skill, Phalanx II does 56 damage reduction- using the enhancing JA jumps them to 56 and 112 respectively. (Not to mention 700 damage stoneskin and delicious 40 damage en-spells.)

Wow look, I just created a completely new type of tank class that is neither blood tanking nor evasion, and is from an existing job that is stale as all hell!

When can I expect my pay check, Square?

[Kazen]

Or just complain on Alla and get a current tank buffed even more for more people play it! Waaaa waaa waaa PLD isnt strong enough, reflect sucks waaaaaaa we need Phalanx/Stoneskin and a refresh spell to say fuck you rdms even more than the reflect spell (if added) says now.

[LD]

Change Phalanx II to Phalanxga (the way it was supposed to be originally), give Red Mages a real Phalanx II (self only, because we roll like that) that uses a damage reduction calculation like (Enhancing magic/5)-2 for 42 MP (double Phalanx's cost), then give Red Mages a job ability that doubles the power of their enhancing magic spells. (Hell, you could even do that at the expense of spells from sub job to cut out /NIN dependency.) So Phalanx and Pahalnxga do 28 damage reduction for 300 skill, Phalanx II does 56 damage reduction- using the enhancing JA jumps them to 56 and 112 respectively. (Not to mention 700 damage stoneskin and delicious 40 damage en-spells.)

Wow look, I just created a completely new type of tank class that is neither blood tanking nor evasion, and is from an existing job that is stale as all hell!

When can I expect my pay check, Square?

While that is a good idea, that's STILL face tanking, because you are taking damage and mitigating it through damage reduction (high def/vit, shield block, Sentinel.) Incidentally, I'd prefer RDM got a boost in physical and magical damage over their tanking ability. Phalanxga is cool, but....really?

Imo, the most innovative approach to a new type of tank would have to be the mega-stoneskin idea. The character's shield is taking damage, not the character itself, so its tanking would be centered around strengthening and maintaining the shield. It's still technically HP damage, but healing and support would be different, in the same way Utsu tanking requires different things.

[Xno Kappa]

[quote:20e5y5lk]Change Phalanx II to Phalanxga (the way it was supposed to be originally), give Red Mages a real Phalanx II (self only, because we roll like that) that uses a damage reduction calculation like (Enhancing magic/5)-2 for 42 MP (double Phalanx's cost), then give Red Mages a job ability that doubles the power of their enhancing magic spells. (Hell, you could even do that at the expense of spells from sub job to cut out /NIN dependency.) So Phalanx and Pahalnxga do 28 damage reduction for 300 skill, Phalanx II does 56 damage reduction- using the enhancing JA jumps them to 56 and 112 respectively. (Not to mention 700 damage stoneskin and delicious 40 damage en-spells.)

Wow look, I just created a completely new type of tank class that is neither blood tanking nor evasion, and is from an existing job that is stale as all hell!

When can I expect my pay check, Square?

While that is a good idea, that's STILL face tanking, because you are taking damage and mitigating it through damage reduction (high def/vit, shield block, Sentinel.) Incidentally, I'd prefer RDM got a boost in physical and magical damage over their tanking ability. Phalanxga is cool, but....really?

Imo, the most innovative approach to a new type of tank would have to be the mega-stoneskin idea. The character's shield is taking damage, not the character itself, so its tanking would be centered around strengthening and maintaining the shield. It's still technically HP damage, but healing and support would be different, in the same way Utsu tanking requires different things.[/quote:20e5y5lk]
You do realize you just described Phalanx/Stoneskin tanking.

[LD]

It's different in the way that it's an inherently more powerful shield, and thus wouldn't necessarily require something like phalanx to supplement its strength, at least not in the same way. Direct damage would be less likely.

To put it plainly, it would be what utsu is to blink right now; much more powerful and reliable, and the core mechanic with which the rest of the job is built upon.