RPGamer FFXI Wings Dev. Interview

[Septimus]

Change Phalanx II to Phalanxga (the way it was supposed to be originally), give Red Mages a real Phalanx II (self only, because we roll like that) that uses a damage reduction calculation like (Enhancing magic/5)-2 for 42 MP (double Phalanx's cost), then give Red Mages a job ability that doubles the power of their enhancing magic spells. (Hell, you could even do that at the expense of spells from sub job to cut out /NIN dependency.) So Phalanx and Pahalnxga do 28 damage reduction for 300 skill, Phalanx II does 56 damage reduction- using the enhancing JA jumps them to 56 and 112 respectively. (Not to mention 700 damage stoneskin and delicious 40 damage en-spells.)

Wow look, I just created a completely new type of tank class that is neither blood tanking nor evasion, and is from an existing job that is stale as all hell!

When can I expect my pay check, Square?

While that is a good idea, that's STILL face tanking, because you are taking damage and mitigating it through damage reduction (high def/vit, shield block, Sentinel.)

Imo, the most innovative approach to a new type of tank would have to be the mega-stoneskin idea. The character's shield is taking damage, not the character itself, so its tanking would be centered around strengthening and maintaining the shield. It's still technically HP damage, but healing and support would be different, in the same way Utsu tanking requires different things.

Notice that I did throw a super huge stoneskin in there too. I consider it differently because Paladins face tank (not that they can anymore) through their VIT and high enmity that balances out the damage lost, this Red Mage system is super high damage mitigation to lower enmity loss but is completely spell-dependent- if the RDM is caught without Phalanx and Stoneskin he/she is going to get flattened.

But the point is that I came up with a tank (that no one would allow to happen because people hate it when Red Mages are happy) that has very different mechanics from the two existing major tanks in just a few minutes. Square has a bunch of people working on the game, why can't they do the same?

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

[riddaraan]

Septimus,
Honestly, how could we let you tank? What would we tell the lonely crying Galka at night, if you died on the battlefield? That we could have done it with a Paladin, but Red Mages are tanks too? No, sir, I just couldn't do that to those overgrown love muffins.

But if you insist on the desire to tank, I think we can find your lovelies a nice spot in Zehrun Mines. Hard work will take their minds off of their loss.

[LD]

I admit I didn't see the stoneskin part (did kinda throw it in at the end), and this is essentially what I was advocating. However, and I realize I can't say this without sounding a little bitter, does RDM really need to tank too? ~_~;

I'd much prefer the mega shield idea be given to another job, it could be given more room to grow without having to contend with as many balance issues. Shield phalanx, shield regeneration, shield extension to other PT members... While the new job would be seen as the 'real' version, you have to admit RDM getting something similar would probably push it out of the lime light.

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

That too. ¬¬

When your 700HP stoneskin goes down, you still have a 100+ phalanx2. It's different than something based entirely around one thing. Add to that your already powerful healing, buffing, and debuffing, and the only thing you DON'T do is DD. -_-

RDM's Phalanx could get a boost, but frankly, the area they were supposed to excel at was their balance, and their damage dealing seems lacking compared to their healing, support, debuffing, and even tanking. Tanking is a much more desirable role than anything else these days, and you already do it pretty well. I think it would be better if the job got a boost in something it was supposed to do to make up for BLM's raw power, but it was never a substantial enough to constitute a strong compensation, as far as damage is concerned. An Enspell boost, a Sword skill boost, and/or maybe a Zerk-like JA that gives a large Fast Cast and MP cost reduction bonus.

[Septimus]

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

Any more broken than Utsusemi?

I admit I didn't see the stoneskin part (did kinda throw it in at the end), and this is essentially what I was advocating. However, and I realize I can't say this without sounding a little bitter, does RDM really need to tank too? ~_~;

I'd much prefer the mega shield idea be given to another job, it could be given more room to grow without having to contend with as many balance issues. Shield phalanx, shield regeneration, shield extension to other PT members... While the new job would be seen as the 'real' version, you have to admit RDM getting something similar would probably push it out of the lime light.

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

That too. ¬¬

When your 700HP stoneskin goes down, you still have a 100+ phalanx2. It's different than something based entirely around one thing. Add to that your already powerful healing, buffing, and debuffing, and the only thing you DON'T do is DD. -_-

RDM's Phalanx could get a boost, but frankly, the area they were supposed to excel at was their balance, and their damage dealing seems lacking compared to their healing, support, debuffing, and even tanking. Tanking is a much more desirable role than anything else these days, and you already do it pretty well. I think it would be better if the job got a boost in something it was supposed to do to make up for BLM's raw power, but it was never a substantial enough to constitute a strong compensation, as far as damage is concerned. An Enspell boost, a Sword skill boost, and/or maybe a Zerk-like JA that gives a large Fast Cast and MP cost reduction bonus.

This is basically a concept for a new tank that does not rely on Utsusemi to not get its face caved in. And people need to get over fast parties. Yes, Red Mages get parties quickly, but it is still terrible, unsatisfying, and thankless job.

I think I need to reiterate what I was going for when I wrote those job ideas.

But the point is that I came up with a tank (that no one would allow to happen because people hate it when Red Mages are happy) that has very different mechanics from the two existing major tanks in just a few minutes. Square has a bunch of people working on the game, why can't they do the same?

No, it would not happen (because people despise the happiness of Red Mages), but I came up with the idea very quickly. Square could easily make an entirely new job like Mystic Knight that tanks on this principle. Of course it would totally destroy the only unique and fun aspect left to Red Mage, which is why I am surprised Square hasn't done it already.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

Any more broken than Utsusemi?

For more, especially considering everything else RDM can already do.

Utsusemi needs to be constantly recast and still be stripped through normal hits/wses. A 100 damage phalanx would just plain reduce damage taken from normal hits to 0, which is silly.

[Septimus]

Sept, that would be ridiculously overpowered for non-HNM stuff.

Any more broken than Utsusemi?

For more, especially considering everything else RDM can already do.

Utsusemi needs to be constantly recast and still be stripped through normal hits/wses. A 100 damage phalanx would just plain reduce damage taken from normal hits to 0, which is silly.

Anything less powerful would be worthless for HNMs since there are plenty of end-game mobs that consistently hit people for 200 hundred+ damage a shot. Even with a 112 damage Phalanx and 700 damage stoneskin you would still need a hefty damage reduction gear set to tank something like Tiamat since the stoneskin would get wiped fairly quickly. (Unless they made it scale to the monsters that you are fighting.)

But that notwithstanding...

But the point is that I came up with a tank (that no one would allow to happen because people hate it when Red Mages are happy) that has very different mechanics from the two existing major tanks in just a few minutes. Square has a bunch of people working on the game, why can't they do the same?

[ringthree]

I actually think of it a little differently. Ninja tanks by damage negation and Paladin tanks by limited damage reduction and self-perpetuation through curing. What if we had a tank that really had damage mitigation as its main ability? For example, what if they got job traits with straight damage reduction that increased with level and a job ability that acted like a temporary damage block for the next hit or x amount of damage? Have it close to instant so that it could be used against TP moves. As a main it would have limited DD ability, and it could be a useful sub for many tank jobs and could make jobs that are close to being able to tank but don't have enough to put it over the top. Probably like a 5% damage reduction at 15, 30, 45, 60 and 75 as a trait, then the instant damage blocks at like 12 and 37 like NIN, or the second one could be higher if it would be unbalanced. (This could all be adjusted one way or the other depending on how it would actually work in game). Give it some other debuffs, maybe a TP reduction move or a TP reduction DoT or both. Maybe even give it a party targetable Regain so that people will want them in an XP party. You could even give it a job trait that changed the way that Vit and defense is calculated against mobs. You would give it low evasion but high defense and Vitality, which would make it close to a Paladin but without the magic. You couldn't give it many of its own enmity tools because it might be unbalanced as a sub for NIN, so it would be more like a NIN tank where the sub defines how it gets hate rather than the main.

The problem with what people think about Paladin is that they assume that it is all about defense and Vit, when it is much more about self-perpetuation through curing. Remove the curing, and make the new tank about real damage mitigation and you have a new and usable tank. Then you would have a decent spectrum from which to field tanks. Damage negation on one side and true damage mitigation on the other, with PLD in between but still having its own unique aspects.

Call it Mystic Knight and call it a day, I could even come up with a decent storyline explanation for it. LOL

[Kyreth]

I can think of another option. Build a TP-dependant style, like Dancer, only tank abilities.

Hello, Viking.

Give it job traits that increased TP gain -from being hit- (hi, pain makes me angry), much like monsters do. Allow Viking to use defensive JA abilities that cost TP- Defense Up (you call that a hit?), HP Max UP (don't feel pain), Damage percent down (real men don't bleed from those tickles), a Provoke-style like DNC has (it's a Viking ability anyway), etc. Also, do something unusual...give them a JT that -increases- casting speeds. Barbarians don't trust filthy sorcery and Viking Ninjas are freaks of nature.

Axe B, Great Axe A, Great Sword A-, Shield C, Sword B-, whatever else. Give me a fur-clad guy with a big 2hander that gets hit, starts foaming at the mouth and mauls things like a bear on crack. And doesn't believe in Utsu tanking.

There's your new tank. It bloodtanks but it doesn't shadow tank, and it tanks better the more it gets hit/smacks things.

[ringthree]

I can think of another option. Build a TP-dependant style, like Dancer, only tank abilities.

Hello, Viking.

Give it job traits that increased TP gain -from being hit- (hi, pain makes me angry), much like monsters do. Allow Viking to use defensive JA abilities that cost TP- Defense Up (you call that a hit?), HP Max UP (don't feel pain), Damage percent down (real men don't bleed from those tickles), a Provoke-style like DNC has (it's a Viking ability anyway), etc. Also, do something unusual...give them a JT that -increases- casting speeds. Barbarians don't trust filthy sorcery and Viking Ninjas are freaks of nature.

Axe B, Great Axe A, Great Sword A-, Shield C, Sword B-, whatever else. Give me a fur-clad guy with a big 2hander that gets hit, starts foaming at the mouth and mauls things like a bear on crack. And doesn't believe in Utsu tanking.

There's your new tank. It bloodtanks but it doesn't shadow tank, and it tanks better the more it gets hit/smacks things.

Sounds a lot like a Warrior tank in WoW, but with a FFXI twist. You would have to be careful about them being able to gain TP too fast though, thus probably needing to decrease their weapon caps to at most B.

We can all come up with very usable idea for tanking jobs all day, but day-dreaming and speculating doesn't actually make them work in game. SE has to do that.

[LD]

I don't see how RDM being a thankless job is, um, our problem. Ok, maybe it sucks playing RDM sometimes, but that doesn't mean it isn't one of the highest valued jobs in this game. To be absolutely honest, how happy you people are and how well the job works have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Job balance has nothing to do with how much fun you have. I mean, to put it simply, PUP looks like a fun job. :/

Yes, I'm aware I essentially said the same thing 5 times. That's kind of the point.

Also, the Stoneskin portion is the only truly unique aspect, since PLDs have Sentinel. They don't have it on all the time, but it's a conditional damage mitigation tool, which is what you're talking about (unless you suggest a job should have a latent phalanx effect (JT), which would basically be a PLD, with phalanx instead of def/vit.) Stoneskin is currently more of a stall due to its low HP amount, it's not the defining factor in tanking. IMO, SS has more that could be built on; with phalanx, you can only make the shield stronger, with SS, you can make it stronger, regenerate it, use portions of it for various purposes (think Souleater, only with more control.)

Anyway, while we both have interesting ideas on the subject, none of it's gunna be applied to RDM. You should really hope for something along the lines of better DD or more efficient spellcasting to go along with even faster casting. While refresh is incredibly important, the value is somewhat mitigated by it invariably being casted on all other mages.

[Max™]

That Viking description sounds like something I've said before (same with the Mystic Knight one), but more interestingly.

That description of Viking sounds like the job adjustments they mentioned for Warrior.

Counter doesn't work through shadows, I doubt they would make it only work through them for Warrior, as that would basically be saying "just go fuck yourselves with rusty pipes, Monks". Getting Tp from Counters would improve Warrior hate holding, negate damage, and make Seigan tanking pretty viable for a lot of things.

[Spider-Dan]

I'd like to see a Mystic Knight tank, but oriented completely around spikes. Give them standard spike trio at low levels, plus earth spikes (slow), dark spikes (blind), wind spikes (def down), water spikes (atk down), and maybe light spikes (?). The key would be a Spike Bonus JT (15ish) which increases enmity and potency of MYK's spikes, and Double-Spike (40) / Triple-Spike (65ish) JTs, which allow you to stack non-elementally opposed spikes (think frost/rasp/drown).

Brand new tank with a significantly different modus operandi than NIN/PLD. And since it needs to be hit to function (like a reverse DNC of sorts), /NIN is completely inapplicable (in contrast to, say, RDM/NIN).

[Gasgul]

Side note, ;_; no engine update ... Eve-Online is doing it now and looking great.

EVE>FFXI
http://myeve.eve-online.com/download...wnload&vid=157

link to new EVE engine trailer,

Been subbed for a year, good solid experience, definately recommend,

[Maxxthepenguin]

Anything less powerful would be worthless for HNMs since there are plenty of end-game mobs that consistently hit people for 200 hundred+ damage a shot. Even with a 112 damage Phalanx and 700 damage stoneskin you would still need a hefty damage reduction gear set to tank something like Tiamat since the stoneskin would get wiped fairly quickly. (Unless they made it scale to the monsters that you are fighting.)

But that notwithstanding...

But the point is that I came up with a tank (that no one would allow to happen because people hate it when Red Mages are happy) that has very different mechanics from the two existing major tanks in just a few minutes. Square has a bunch of people working on the game, why can't they do the same?

Which is why Phalanx is a bad idea to be the primary method of tanking, it just can't be balanced to be useful and fair.

It's just not easy to come up with ideas for tanking. They obviously tried something with viking and it didn't work. Give them some credit lol

[Khamsin]

Anything less powerful would be worthless for HNMs since there are plenty of end-game mobs that consistently hit people for 200 hundred+ damage a shot. Even with a 112 damage Phalanx and 700 damage stoneskin you would still need a hefty damage reduction gear set to tank something like Tiamat since the stoneskin would get wiped fairly quickly. (Unless they made it scale to the monsters that you are fighting.)

But that notwithstanding...

But the point is that I came up with a tank (that no one would allow to happen because people hate it when Red Mages are happy) that has very different mechanics from the two existing major tanks in just a few minutes. Square has a bunch of people working on the game, why can't they do the same?

Which is why Phalanx is a bad idea to be the primary method of tanking, it just can't be balanced to be useful and fair.

It's just not easy to come up with ideas for tanking. They obviously tried something with viking and it didn't work. Give them some credit lol

What about a new buff that acts as a sort of inverse Phalanx that caps damage, rather than shaves it? For example, it might cap physical damage against you at 100 (give or take depending on enhancing skill), so even Geush Urvan or Tiamat's crits won't do more than 100. It also wouldn't overpower them in solo situations, either, since nothing you solo does more than 100 damage per hit anyway. It also wouldn't allow them to solo or hold NMs they couldn't before, as even at 100 per hit, you'd still run out of MP fairly quickly trying to solo hold Tiamat or Geush Urvan. You'd still need as much support as any other tank would need to make it effecient.

Possible exploits include Stoneskin (350) holding out for 3-4 hits on even the strongest HNMs. So with a haste setup and slow II/elegy, it may be possible to keep Stoneskin up nearly indefinitely. But then, this isn't necessarily overpowered since utsusemi is almost the same way.

Another possibility is having a buff like Phalanx but with a sliding scale of % damage reduction. For example, depending on enhancing magic, let's say at 50 damage taken, you cut off only 25% which would be a little weaker than Phalanx. However, at 300 damage taken, you cut off 50%. At 550+ damage, you'd cut off 75%, and cap it there. This would also make it beneficial to purposefully lower or raise defense depending on which would get you the lowest damage. Above and below a certain amount of base damage near the lower and upper ends of the spectrum, you'd do better to raise defense. In the middle of the damage spectrum, you'd do better to lower your defense.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Another possibility is having a buff like Phalanx but with a sliding scale of % damage reduction. For example, depending on enhancing magic, let's say at 50 damage taken, you cut off only 25% which would be a little weaker than Phalanx. However, at 300 damage taken, you cut off 50%. At 550+ damage, you'd cut off 75%, and cap it there. This would also make it beneficial to purposefully lower or raise defense depending on which would get you the lowest damage. Above and below a certain amount of base damage near the lower and upper ends of the spectrum, you'd do better to raise defense. In the middle of the damage spectrum, you'd do better to lower your defense.

I actually really like that idea. A hard cap isn't a good idea IMO but something like that would be good. IMO RDM doesn't need it though, it's already one of the most powerful and needed jobs in the game. It could be interesting on SCH.

[LD]

That's all effectively the same as phalanx.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Phalanx works on small hits, this would be working on large hits

[LD]

Well, that's why I didn't say exactly the same, but I admit it's an interesting concept.

Anyway, Scholar already gets Phalanxga with RDM sub, and since RDM's Enhancing isn't much higher than a SCH with Light Arts up, it will likely get comparable results.