Special Task Force Report (12/04/2007)

[Croaker]

RMT
Our activities against RMT*1 are not limited to only RMT websites, but also deal with "gil vaults" and with hunters*2 who are involved in obtaining RMT organizations' gil. Through these actions, we aim to seriously reduce RMT organizations' activities.

*2, Hunters
Characters who kill Notorious Monsters, clear quests, and obtain items over and over again with the sole purpose of gathering gil, which is then handed off to RMT groups.

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

[Not Kuno]

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

Does said HNMLS pay seemingly random people? The money that goes out from the BG bank goes to BG members. I'd say thats a good way of determining who is a RMT bank and who is legit.

[Fhqwghads]

Very encouraging to see them continue on their massive crackdown. The economy, on the other hand, is incredibly turbulent due to the out-flux of gil. But given the choice, I'd rather see the RMT finding new jobs or new games to ruin and purge FFXI of their presence than have a more stable economy with them around. I predict that sometime in the near future, some of the lesser NMs that have so-so drops might actually be up and unclaimed for a while. You know, like back in the day before IGE & Co. sunk their teeth into the game.

[Alleya]

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

Does said HNMLS pay seemingly random people? The money that goes out from the BG bank goes to BG members. I'd say thats a good way of determining who is a RMT bank and who is legit.

The fact that every transaction an HNMLS bank has does not involve people named Fiodhgwaeggn and Ajaiowrgbar is also a good indication.

[Croaker]

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

Does said HNMLS pay seemingly random people? The money that goes out from the BG bank goes to BG members. I'd say thats a good way of determining who is a RMT bank and who is legit.

True. Assuming the person scanning the logs knows who your members are. Maybe the trade is only legit if both people are wearing he same pearl.

[Fhqwghads]

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

Does said HNMLS pay seemingly random people? The money that goes out from the BG bank goes to BG members. I'd say thats a good way of determining who is a RMT bank and who is legit.

True. Assuming the person scanning the logs knows who your members are. Maybe the trade is only legit if both people are wearing he same pearl.

The trade can be legit if it's not a member of the shell. A dead give-away is an account with tons of money that frequently gives away gil to random people, and rarely gives any to the members of their own linkshell. Even then, it's more than likely to gear up a new account to replace an old one, and they'd buy completely crap gear. Conversely, a legit shell would rarely give gil to random people, and its members would spend the money they receive commonly buying the best gear they can.

[Croaker]

Im very curious to know how their logs can distinguish the RMT groups from an HNMLS.

HNMLS kill Notorious Monsters and obtain items over and over again. (check)
HNMLS sell materials for gil and keep a huge amount of funds in a LS bank i.e. "gil vault". (check)
HNMLS periodically pay out this gil to their members. (check)

Based on a scan of logs, these actions would look identical to an RMT group.

Does said HNMLS pay seemingly random people? The money that goes out from the BG bank goes to BG members. I'd say thats a good way of determining who is a RMT bank and who is legit.

True. Assuming the person scanning the logs knows who your members are. Maybe the trade is only legit if both people are wearing he same pearl.

The trade can be legit if it's not a member of the shell. A dead give-away is an account with tons of money that frequently gives away gil to random people, and rarely gives any to the members of their own linkshell. Even then, it's more than likely to gear up a new account to replace an old one, and they'd buy completely crap gear. Conversely, a legit shell would rarely give gil to random people, and its members would spend the money they receive commonly buying the best gear they can.

Lets say I am some guy that SE pulled off the street and is paying $5 and hour to scan through billions of lines of transactions. What exactly distinguishes someone as a "random person" to me? If I am on the outside looking in, then everyone is a "random person".

[ringthree]

The most that I see RMT anymore is the group that camps Kreutzet for JP THFs.

[Croaker]

The fact that every transaction an HNMLS bank has does not involve people named Fiodhgwaeggn and Ajaiowrgbar is also a good indication.

But maybe it involves people named Fhqwghads or Ghanraam? Those names are obviously made up RMT names.

[Khamsin]

Hell, I can even tell the difference between RMTs with an HNM and legit LSs with an HNM. And I don't even have any of the tools the GMs have to investigate such matters.

As for gil transactions of RMT vs HNMLSs, they go about their gathering and distribution in entirely different ways. There only appears to be conceptual similarities on the surface. RMTs do not operate like HNMLSs.

[Weeks]

Okay, all very good. Now when are they going to start working with the dev team on stopping claim bots?

[Stolin]

When are they going to start instancing things that matter so no one would have to use claim bots and gilsellers can't bother anyone?

[Croaker]

Hell, I can even tell the difference between RMTs with an HNM and legit LSs with an HNM. And I don't even have any of the tools the GMs have to investigate such matters.

As for gil transactions of RMT vs HNMLSs, they go about their gathering and distribution in entirely different ways. There only appears to be conceptual similarities on the surface. RMTs do not operate like HNMLSs.

I have no hidden agenda or something I am trying to prove. I only posed the question because I am curious and also seriously question SE's ability and methods in their years on "cracking down". The fact that is is so obvious to you makes me wonder why it has not been so obvious to SE. Can you please elaborate on these differences? They may seem obvious to you becuse you "know" they are RMT, but how are these differences distinguisable to someone on the outside?

I have been with my linkshell at camps where a non USA LS shows up and a flame war ensues because both linkshells are 100% convinced that the other linkshell is RMT. Most people never look beyond those conceptual similarities on the surface.

[Khamsin]

Hell, I can even tell the difference between RMTs with an HNM and legit LSs with an HNM. And I don't even have any of the tools the GMs have to investigate such matters.

As for gil transactions of RMT vs HNMLSs, they go about their gathering and distribution in entirely different ways. There only appears to be conceptual similarities on the surface. RMTs do not operate like HNMLSs.

I have no hidden agenda or something I am trying to prove. I only posed the question because I am curious and also seriously question SE's ability and methods in their years on "cracking down". The fact that is is so obvious to you makes me wonder why it has not been so obvious to SE. Can you please elaborate on these differences? They may seem obvious to you becuse you "know" they are RMT, but how are these differences distinguisable to someone on the outside?

I have been with my linkshell at camps where a non USA LS shows up and a flame war ensues because both linkshells are 100% convinced that the other linkshell is RMT. Most people never look beyond those conceptual similarities on the surface.

I think it's more to do with accountability. As an individual player, I can label whoever I want as RMT and nobody loses sleep over it. Not like I can ban anyone over it, anyway. FFXI isn't my responsibility.

SE, on the other hand, is the "governing agency" and is the accountable authority when handling bannings and RMT. While nobody is watching me, caring what I think, everyone is watching SE and criticizing how they go about their business. SE probably has a better idea of who the RMTs are than they let on, but because they are accountable, they want some documented objective procedure to back themselves up.

I'm betting if you asked one of those task force people behind the scenes and off the record, they could probably finger more RMT than was officially in their report.

When are they going to start instancing things that matter so no one would have to use claim bots and gilsellers can't bother anyone?

When they make FFXI a single player game. Can you imagine an MMO where the only communal areas are the towns, and all other content is a series of instanced missions?

[fndragon]

When are they going to start instancing things that matter so no one would have to use claim bots and gilsellers can't bother anyone?

When they make FFXI a single player game. Can you imagine an MMO where the only communal areas are the towns, and all other content is a series of instanced missions?

Guild Wars already exists.

[ringthree]

When they make FFXI a single player game. Can you imagine an MMO where the only communal areas are the towns, and all other content is a series of instanced missions?

Isn't that pretty much the concept behind Guild War, D&DO and the coming Conan game?

Definitely not something I would want to play.

[Stolin]

I wasn't suggesting instancing *all* of the actually gameplay.

Sigh...I miss the days I played age of empires2 and counterstrike when I never argued about inane bullcrap. SC2 can't come out sooner.

[Kyreth]

the only thing that still irks me is that they continue to run gil out of the economy w/o replenishing it. this causes NPC prices to raise even further, but that's a topic for another discussion.

I can make over 100K in a day from simply farming TW-EP mobs solo as a RDM/THF (no, not telling, but it's not exploiting and it's not tiger fangs), just in sell-to-vendor stuff. Find stuff that sells well to the right vendors. Farm the hell out of it. NPC prices don't change much, unlike AH prices...and the more the economy deflates, the better farming stuff to simply sell off to a NPC gets.

Amusingly enough, on Ragnarok I often pass by an RMT-run monk who sits there in the gobbie room (near the 3 Mage Door) in the Ruins, basically running in circles punching the gobbies to death till full inventory, runs up to sell off the junk and repeats. The name's changed, the tactic's the same every month. STFU notices, bansticks them (likely traces the Gil and bansticks the banks too), and RMT goes right back to doing it again.

[nekura]

Dude it would own if I were a GM. I'd find someone POSing and POS along with them invisible and then uninvisible after a few and say "Out for a jog?" and then b& <_<

I nominate you for GM good sir, assuming you'd be willing to fraps this.

[Fhqwghads]

The trade can be legit if it's not a member of the shell. A dead give-away is an account with tons of money that frequently gives away gil to random people, and rarely gives any to the members of their own linkshell. Even then, it's more than likely to gear up a new account to replace an old one, and they'd buy completely crap gear. Conversely, a legit shell would rarely give gil to random people, and its members would spend the money they receive commonly buying the best gear they can.

Lets say I am some guy that SE pulled off the street and is paying $5 and hour to scan through billions of lines of transactions. What exactly distinguishes someone as a "random person" to me? If I am on the outside looking in, then everyone is a "random person".

I think it would revolve around frequency. I can't think of any LS that hands out gil to many people who are not in the shell, and at the same time rarely gives out gil to their own members.

The fact that every transaction an HNMLS bank has does not involve people named Fiodhgwaeggn and Ajaiowrgbar is also a good indication.

But maybe it involves people named Fhqwghads or Ghanraam? Those names are obviously made up RMT names.

HEY!