Endless debate

[Faris]

*Shitstorm has commenced* The muslims(And, in fact, all countries based largely around religion. I'm looking at you, USA.) are the ones causing the grief. Israel isn't the saint-of-countries everyone makes it out to be, however, you can hardly say -they- cause the wars you speak of through tangibal events. Your personal, chosen beliefs cause the wars and all of your violent hate towards anything a book tells you to hate.(I know full well the history of the situation, mind you.)

That being said, I made the point at the United States for a reason. Though I'm hardly going to start a religious debate over it. So pointless...

yeah its pointless, this is how it is in the middle east, no israelis in our country. JUST LIKE NO FIRAS IN NEW YORK! haha, my visa got rejected 3 years ago when my class was going for educational purposes. A college sponsered trip, and i get rejected;; But seriously, I think my government banned Israelis for their own safety (and ours), 99.9%(count me in) of the people living in the middle east, westerners included firmly believe what is happening in Palastine is wrong, fully blaming Israel and the U.S of the whole issue. So, I think it is smart to avoid any Israeli coming in the UAE, after all we are a tourist country.

Cut this into another thread if you want to, I'll gladly talk about it over there. But what exactly was the international community and the US supposed to do after WW2 with all of the Jews that weren't slaughtered? They had to go somewhere.

Although it may have not been the best solution looking back in history (find a better one before you criticize this one), but what choice did the community have?

You make a thread! this debate has been gone over since 1948, Its been stated in Holy Books, it's inevitable. In the end there will always be two sides West and East. But what does Palestine got to do with jews from WW2? you cant really say its justified to just pour a whole country on someone else's land, and claim it by force. Wait, thats called an invasion, damn.

Someone else's land? The land belonged to the Brits, it was their country and their choice to do what they wanted.

As for Palestine? Israel has never been at war with Palestine because Palestine has never existed, the people who call themselves Palestinians are Jordanians and Egyptians

you really made me lol. I'm sorry but I have absolutely nothing to say to you.

[Meat]

[quote=Firas]

*Shitstorm has commenced* The muslims(And, in fact, all countries based largely around religion. I'm looking at you, USA.) are the ones causing the grief. Israel isn't the saint-of-countries everyone makes it out to be, however, you can hardly say -they- cause the wars you speak of through tangibal events. Your personal, chosen beliefs cause the wars and all of your violent hate towards anything a book tells you to hate.(I know full well the history of the situation, mind you.)

That being said, I made the point at the United States for a reason. Though I'm hardly going to start a religious debate over it. So pointless...

yeah its pointless, this is how it is in the middle east, no israelis in our country. JUST LIKE NO FIRAS IN NEW YORK! haha, my visa got rejected 3 years ago when my class was going for educational purposes. A college sponsered trip, and i get rejected;; But seriously, I think my government banned Israelis for their own safety (and ours), 99.9%(count me in) of the people living in the middle east, westerners included firmly believe what is happening in Palastine is wrong, fully blaming Israel and the U.S of the whole issue. So, I think it is smart to avoid any Israeli coming in the UAE, after all we are a tourist country.

Cut this into another thread if you want to, I'll gladly talk about it over there. But what exactly was the international community and the US supposed to do after WW2 with all of the Jews that weren't slaughtered? They had to go somewhere.

Although it may have not been the best solution looking back in history (find a better one before you criticize this one), but what choice did the community have?

You make a thread! this debate has been gone over since 1948, Its been stated in Holy Books, it's inevitable. In the end there will always be two sides West and East. But what does Palestine got to do with jews from WW2? you cant really say its justified to just pour a whole country on someone else's land, and claim it by force. Wait, thats called an invasion, damn.

Someone else's land? The land belonged to the Brits, it was their country and their choice to do what they wanted.

As for Palestine? Israel has never been at war with Palestine because Palestine has never existed, the people who call themselves Palestinians are Jordanians and Egyptians

you really made me lol. I'm sorry but I have absolutely nothing to say to you.[/quote:1lkdefk5]
Because there's nothing you can say, everything I've said is fact. There has never been an autonomous palestinian state, ever

[Meat]

Are we going to seriously try to justify the creation of Israel by virtue of British imperialism?

Bottom line is the Allies defeated those who greivously wronged the European Jews and were left to decide the fate of the former Axis countries. Intense military presence in the region until this day would've been a safety buffer. Instead, it was decided to pass off the "problem" to an area inhabited by people who had no involvment in the crimes against the Jews of WWII. Stalin wasn't jew-friendly at all, and I suppose the rest of the allies were more concerned with getting their piece of the post-war pie.

Might makes right, I stand by my original statement. The British had ever right to decide to partition the land as they saw fit.

[Faris]

Because there's nothing you can say, everything I've said is fact. There has never been an autonomous palestinian state, ever

-_-
by the end of the seventh century that land was recognized as Arabic, arabs and muslims lived in it. Filastine was its name(how palestine is pronounced in Arabic) then it diverted to the Ottoman Empire, still being an Arab nation, and Islam is its religion. Up until 1948, the largest community in that piece of land were Arabs. When Jewish settlers came to Palestine living there for religious purposes only, and not political, the Arabs had no problem with that. It was when the land of all the peasants (Arabs) were being purchased by Jews and slowly evicting the peasants from their land thats when the Arab peasants started feeling the danger. How is that possible? The 1858 Ottoman Land law. in a nut shell, this is when the ottoman empire started asking for registration on lands in order to claim that the land is yours, the peasants didn't feel the need to register for many viable reasons, as a result, ottoman villagers registered as owners of the land of the Arab peasants, and started slowly selling them to Jews. The Brits came later, the conflict started before that. Here are quotes from great Israeli figures:

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." -- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

We came to this country which was already populated by Arabs, and we are establishing a Hebrew, that is, a Jewish state here. Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you, because those geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahalal arose in the place of Malalul; Givat in the place of Jibta; Sarid in the place of Haneifa, and Kfar Yehoshua in the place of Tell Shamon. There is not one place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.
--Moshe Dayan, addressing the Technion, Haifa (Haaretz, April 4th, 1969)

Lets not mention, the attempt to invade Lebanon in 1982 and Egypt in 1956, or are those also were never owned by Arabs?

It's an endless debate, It all boils down to war pretty much. The whole scenario is too messy, too deep and too religious. Sadly it resulted in all this violence, all those wars and the deaths of all the innocent people in between.

[archibaldcrane]

Gentlemen, please! Everything you need to know about the Jewish claim to this land can be summed up in this informational video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fkvbln1ORk0

No need to be argumentative about it. I mean, Grandpa has the documents and everything!

[Lordwafik]

Someone's replaced all the frogs in Zhayolm Remnants with jews, because we're getting no drops!

[Exoduso]

Sucks that Jerusalem isn't mentioned a single time in the Koran... oh yeah, and they all face AWAY from Jerusalem when they pray since they have to be facing Mecca.

Get over yourself. The only reason all the arab nations in that area support the Palestinians because they don't want them in their own country... no one wants them, so it's the best choice for all of those nations to just support their cause, this way they don't have to deal with them.

EDIT: This topic is indeed going to be endless, you know that right? CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALOOOOOOOOOONG.

[Lordwafik]

What if you're in asia, wouldnt you be facing both Jerusalem and Mecca at the same time?

[Faris]

Sucks that Jerusalem isn't mentioned a single time in the Koran... oh yeah, and they all face AWAY from Jerusalem when they pray since they have to be facing Mecca.

Get over yourself. The only reason all the arab nations in that area support the Palestinians because they don't want them in their own country... no one wants them, so it's the best choice for all of those nations to just support their cause, this way they don't have to deal with them.

EDIT: This topic is indeed going to be endless, you know that right? CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALOOOOOOOOOONG.

What are you talking about? the Koran mentions the jews, and Jerusalem. I agree with you on the whole arab nation not wanting them in their country(well its mostly Lebanon and the other neighboring countries). Its a shame, really. But that is not the reason why nobody supports Palestine officially. Arab nations are scared shitless from America, and thats the truth. One nigga wasn't scared, and they took him out. He was a Tyrant, but he was better, if you know what i mean.

[Exoduso]

I thought the only way Jerusalem was mentioned was in a dream, and even then it's not referred to as "Jerusalem", but as the "the farthest mosque" (masjid el-aksa, or w/e), therefore they that would make Jerusalem is the 3rd holiest for the arabs, after Mecca and Medina right?... but wasn't the The Dome of the Rock built like a hundred years after Mohammed? So he wasn't dreaming of an actual place. (at the time..)

Correct me if i'm wrong though.. really, cus I haven't actually delved deep into the matter.

[Faris]

Jerusalem= Al Quds in Arabic. All the Muslim countries even have a holiday on the day our Prophet travelled there, thats how important it is, I mean we don't have a holiday when Mecca was built. Al Quds/Jerusalem is known to be the centre of the earth too. Thats what i know of its importance. Its pretty important.

[Exoduso]

Okay sorry, I meant that the actual word "Jerusalem" doesn't show up on the Koran.

Never said it wasn't important, don't misread or misunderstand my post. (edited it too, take a look... I wanna know if i'm remotely correct or not heh.)

[Beckwin]

I guess we should empty all the Anglos out of America, because I think the Native Americans have a much greater religious claim to the land.

[Demosthenes11]

The war against the Israeli's is so fucking stupid because they are not going anywhere. All the hate for them being there isn't even their own god damn fault. Get the fuck over it

[Meat]

I'm sure a good amount of the hate the Muslims feel is nothing but jealously anyway. For all their talk about brotherhood and righteousness there's not a country in the middle east where muslims are free as they are in Israel.

[Plow]

You make a thread! this debate has been gone over since 1948, Its been stated in Holy Books, it's inevitable. In the end there will always be two sides West and East. But what does Palestine got to do with jews from WW2? you cant really say its justified to just pour a whole nation on someone else's land, and claim it by force. Wait, thats called an invasion, damn.

To tell you the truth, I believe It is a subtle attack on our religion mainly, to eliminate Islam from the face of the earth. No no, I bet many reading this thought quickly: "because its a religion that teaches hate and ill will upon others". We all know Islam and Christianity have the same concept about non-believers. Or maybe i'm just delusional

There's a pretty damn serious difference between Christian crazies yelling "you're going to hell!" at anyone and everyone that's not them and Muslim crazies going "I'm going to kill you even if I have to kill myself so that I can be rewarded with 72 virgins, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!"

[Faris]

I'm sure a good amount of the hate the Muslims feel is nothing but jealously anyway. For all their talk about brotherhood and righteousness there's not a country in the middle east where muslims are free like as they are in Israel.

You're being sarcastic, right? Arabs free in Israel?

There's a pretty damn serious difference between Christian crazies yelling "you're going to hell!" at anyone and everyone that's not them and Muslim crazies going "I'm going to kill you even if I have to kill myself so that I can be rewarded with 72 virgins, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!"

Man, Christian crazies = Bush adminstration, I think thats worse than suicide bombing. Atleast suicide bombing is a one time job. Bush keeps killing innocent people. One time job and they're getting 72 virgins. Bush, on the other hand, ain't getting shit. I dont understand his logic=\

[Correction]

I'm sure a good amount of the hate the Muslims feel is nothing but jealously anyway. For all their talk about brotherhood and righteousness there's not a country in the middle east where muslims are free like as they are in Israel.

You're being sarcastic, right? Arabs free in Israel?

There's a pretty damn serious difference between Christian crazies yelling "you're going to hell!" at anyone and everyone that's not them and Muslim crazies going "I'm going to kill you even if I have to kill myself so that I can be rewarded with 72 virgins, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!"

Man, Christian crazies = Bush adminstration, I think thats worse than suicide bombing. Atleast suicide bombing is a one time job. Bush keeps killing innocent people. One time job and they're getting 72 virgins. Bush, on the other hand, ain't getting shit. I dont understand his logic=\

Suicide bombers don't kill innocents?

[Faris]

I'm sure a good amount of the hate the Muslims feel is nothing but jealously anyway. For all their talk about brotherhood and righteousness there's not a country in the middle east where muslims are free like as they are in Israel.

You're being sarcastic, right? Arabs free in Israel?

There's a pretty damn serious difference between Christian crazies yelling "you're going to hell!" at anyone and everyone that's not them and Muslim crazies going "I'm going to kill you even if I have to kill myself so that I can be rewarded with 72 virgins, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!"

Man, Christian crazies = Bush adminstration, I think thats worse than suicide bombing. Atleast suicide bombing is a one time job. Bush keeps killing innocent people. One time job and they're getting 72 virgins. Bush, on the other hand, ain't getting shit. I dont understand his logic=\

Suicide bombers don't kill innocents?

no, duh.

[Meat]

I'm sure a good amount of the hate the Muslims feel is nothing but jealously anyway. For all their talk about brotherhood and righteousness there's not a country in the middle east where muslims are free like as they are in Israel.

You're being sarcastic, right? Arabs free in Israel?

There's a pretty damn serious difference between Christian crazies yelling "you're going to hell!" at anyone and everyone that's not them and Muslim crazies going "I'm going to kill you even if I have to kill myself so that I can be rewarded with 72 virgins, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!"

Man, Christian crazies = Bush adminstration, I think thats worse than suicide bombing. Atleast suicide bombing is a one time job. Bush keeps killing innocent people. One time job and they're getting 72 virgins. Bush, on the other hand, ain't getting shit. I dont understand his logic=\

Lets see in Israeli muslims can vote(top that), run for office, eat pig, fuck another guy, chose to be a lapse muslim, etcetera etcetera etcetera