Endless debate

**Maxxthepenguin** · 2007-12-06 02:34

Originally Posted by Firas

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

ATTN: Firas

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

Though the Palestinians WERE the ones originally kicked out, it has been long enough that you mostly wouldn't be returning people home, you would be kicking more innocent people out of their homes, which would be just as evil. If it was so bad for the Isrealis to have done, why do you condone the Palestinians idea of doing it back?

And what would you have done with the displaced Jews from the Holocaust?

Love, Max

Sorry, the Jews came in with tanks and soldiers forcing Palestinians out of their home, with endless killing and raiding their streets with terror then build a huge wall to divide the land, with that wall slowly closing in on the Palestinians. Palestinians are fighting back. Taking your land back from invaders is not evil. Civilians who live there after the invasion should expect retaliation.

You're talking like there is a choice for the people who were born and raised there and that the people who are fighting the war were the ones displaced. Say whatever the fuck you want about the political machinations, but those don't matter. What matters is the people and perpetuating the same shit upon the children that the parents did will not get anywhere and will simply continue the violence, hatred, anger, and misery on all sides.

Anyways, if you really want to go WAY WAY back the Jews DID originally have the land. However, going way way back is utter bullshit because holding grudges based on the past instead of the present causes tons of harm.

Originally Posted by Ryko

Because both sides could honestly give less than a shit about the innocents on the other side being displaced and/or dying? Not that I'm picking a side of this but if you got kicked out of your house you're not gonna give much of a shit that the people who kicked you out had a kid before you got it back. Shit was yours, it's not like there's a "no takebacks" rule to war.

But the only way to come to any sort of understanding here is to empathize with the other side. As long as there is this kind of pure venom going through people's minds, this situation is not going to resolve since there is no right, there is no wrong, there is nothing that would expedite the process of peace naturally.

**Faris** · 2007-12-06 02:40

ATTN: Maxx

Originally Posted by Firas

P.S: Seriously, i would seriously like to know, why is it that you condone killing innocent arabs from Lebanon and Palestine? I hope you dont disagree with that atleast, because im not in the mood to go quote solid facts to prove you wrong. Israelis came in with blazing guns. Dead innocent Palestinians are a hell lot more than dead innocent Israelis.

Love, Firas

**Maxxthepenguin** · 2007-12-06 02:49

Since when did I say I condone killing innocent Arabs? I sure as hell don't and think that what was done to the Palestinians was completely wrong and evil. I think the Isreali atrocities are awful as well, but the violence has to end somewhere and with the point of view you seem to have there is no way to stop the violence aside from wiping an entire people out.

What I'm saying is this: Stop the hatred, empathize with both sides. Find a home for the Palestinians, but don't perpetuate the evildoing.

**Exoduso** · 2007-12-06 02:53

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

Since when did I say I condone killing innocent Arabs? I sure as hell don't and think that what was done to the Palestinians was completely wrong and evil. I think the Isreali atrocities are awful as well, but the violence has to end somewhere and with the point of view you seem to have there is no way to stop the violence aside from wiping an entire people out.

What I'm saying is this: Stop the hatred, empathize with both sides. Find a home for the Palestinians, but don't perpetuate the evildoing.

Nobody wants them though..

**Baha** · 2007-12-06 02:53

A lot of the invading was done sixty years ago though, it's pretty much over and done with.

:/
I do wish a more moderate governement would be able to govern Israel for a couple of decades. Zionists that keep colonising/stealing more and more land onto Israel is pretty much as bad as any terrorism. Live in bunkers, aren't afraid to shoot and seem to get backup if the violence escalates.

It's horrible that Israel can just seal off the Gaza Strip for example, stiflign what little business there was there. It's kinda sad that now there's infighting between Fatah and Hezbollah (I think?) now too, that's like arguing agaisnt yourselves.
I really liked the recent news of that campaign to get important books finally translated into arabic though, I have no idea why that never happened before. Was quite shocking to see the figures of books translated into arabic over the decades being so abbysmally low.

Do think the middle east in general is pretty badly represented in the west, saw an interview with a syrian koran expert, who was promoting to re-interpret the koran in a more contemporary way. As usual, fanaticism sucks, in some countries it's ok to wear make up and western clothing, meanwhile in others women are being stalked, raped and killed if they're not veield from head to toe. In any case, the problem won't solve itself overnight.

**Maxxthepenguin** · 2007-12-06 02:55

Originally Posted by Exoduso

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

Since when did I say I condone killing innocent Arabs? I sure as hell don't and think that what was done to the Palestinians was completely wrong and evil. I think the Isreali atrocities are awful as well, but the violence has to end somewhere and with the point of view you seem to have there is no way to stop the violence aside from wiping an entire people out.

What I'm saying is this: Stop the hatred, empathize with both sides. Find a home for the Palestinians, but don't perpetuate the evildoing.

Nobody wants them though..

If nobody is willing to help them how they actually need to be helped, with a place to live, then how can the countries all pissed at Isreal possibly be on Palestine's side?

**guartz** · 2007-12-06 02:58

There is a severe lack of understanding in this thread. I'd like to clear some things up.

First of all, the immigration of jews after ww2 was started by a rabbinical group. (the Zionists) Who had good political sway through world banking industries and other general trade businesses in USA and Brit.(see ww1 history) The ww2 surviving jews didn't all just decide to move to Israel, they were told to go there.

It (the migration) wasn't really a tactical decision, nor was it a religious one, it was just an opportunity for a land grab that was talked about (planned? *tin foil hat*) even before Hitler was born.

Secondly, the Zionists used terrorism to force the brits. out. (Assassinations, bombings, you name it) and essentially robbed people of their land.

Suicide Bombing is not, I repeat, NOT all that unusual. It's pretty much a valid human response to a unusually stressful situation. School shootings that end with suicide are not at all different. Think of Israel as being columbine high school, and Israel soldiers are the cool kids who pick on Palestinian outcasts. (poor metaphor) Anyway, it's less religious zeal then people tend to think.

Sayd Kotb (Sayyid Qutb?) was the founder of today's "terrorist organizations", with his philosophy that Arab lands be free of intruders, and that western influence corrupted Islam.
Believe it or not, it started as a peaceful movement in Egypt. (The Muslim Brotherhood), until CIA captured and tortured Dr.Kotb (We don't torture) That's when his shit became radical, with ideas that the (arab people) are brainwashed and corrupted that only the shock of violence will awaken them, opening civilians as targets. (Book was called, "Knights of Islam"?)

Allah and his Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) are sacred to Islam religion, hence if either is undermined, it is a direct insult to the religion and those who practice it. Unlike Jesus, who was mocked, beaten, etc before ascension. For some reason it makes a difference.

Iraq war is very similar to the Russian Afghan war... because the same people who fought the Ruskis, are now fighting the Americans using the same tactics. Why donald rumsfeld thought he could win, who knows... Basically it's a war attrition and it looks like the other guys are winning. Bush was right about one thing though, Iraq war is just a comma.

Arabs and Israelis are people too. If any of you were born in Palestine, Id guarantee you'd hate Israelis (if not strap a bomb to your chest and charge a tank), and vise versa. As a child you would have witnessed indignities no one should witness, your father being beaten by soldiers because he didn't look right, your mother being stoned by israeli children.

and as an Israeli, you have no choice but to serve in the military, and you'd never know if that truck coming to a check point is the last thing you'd ever see... so a certain degree with cruelty towards palestinians will be born within you.

That's all I wanted to say right now.

**Exoduso** · 2007-12-06 03:00

They're on their side so they don't have to take them in... it's my only reasonable explanation.

If they keep supporting their cause, they keep them out of their own countries (specifically the neighboring countries of Israel, be it Lebanon or Jordan or what have you..)

**Meat** · 2007-12-06 03:00

Originally Posted by Firas

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

ATTN: Firas

Originally Posted by Maxxthepenguin

Though the Palestinians WERE the ones originally kicked out, it has been long enough that you mostly wouldn't be returning people home, you would be kicking more innocent people out of their homes, which would be just as evil. If it was so bad for the Isrealis to have done, why do you condone the Palestinians idea of doing it back?

And what would you have done with the displaced Jews from the Holocaust?

Love, Max

Sorry, the Jews came in with tanks and soldiers forcing Palestinians out of their home, with endless killing and raiding their streets with terror then build a huge wall to divide the land, with that wall slowly closing in on the Palestinians. Palestinians are fighting back. Taking your land back from invaders is not evil. Civilians who live there after the invasion should expect retaliation.

Regards,
Firas

P.S: Seriously, i would seriously like to know, why is it that you condone killing innocent arabs from Lebanon and Palestine? I hope you dont disagree with that atleast, because im not in the mood to go quote solid facts to prove you wrong. Israelis came in with blazing guns. Dead innocent Palestinians are a hell lot more than dead innocent Israelis.

Under the assumption that you're talking about the "occupied" territories, might i point out that all land seized\liberated by Israel where done so on defensive wars? We didn't come with guns blazing, they came and we took the land as a reminder that they are consequences for waging war

***Blarg*** · 2007-12-06 03:02

Are you muslim guartz? Or, at least, Islamic?

**Maxxthepenguin** · 2007-12-06 03:04

Originally Posted by Exoduso

They're on their side so they don't have to take them in... it's my only reasonable explanation.

If they keep supporting their cause, they keep them out of their own countries (specifically the neighboring countries of Israel, be it Lebanon or Jordan or what have you..)

WHICH IS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT GAWD

Basically, what I was GOING to get at (in a much better fashion mind you) is that everyone in the Middle East is being a cruel bastard so anybody who thinks they're in the right, including Firas, including the Isrealis, including everyone, is full of shit.

**guartz** · 2007-12-06 03:05