Endless debate

[Faris]

When guartz started posting I stopped reading though one thing stuck out; Apparently nobody wanted the jews after the holocaust and we made Israel, right? Clearly we should create Palesrael.

PS: I've always wanted to visit the UAE so I'm so gonna call you when I finally go Firas I'll totally jihad all over something

Come, we'll pull a jihad on the cafe SFLS members play in.

You'll have to teach me how to do that ALALALLALALALALLAALLALALALA thing though

lol

[guartz]

Hah, I'm pretty doped up on Tylonel PM right now so maybe I'm missing something. About to fall asleep, will read it when I wake up.

EDIT: Just reread it... I inferred too much when you said, "...is that saying surrounding Arab nations benefit from palestinian conflict is just as ridiculous." I assumed you meant Palestinian conflict specifically with Israel. Am I still not getting what you are saying?

Aye, specifically with Israel

[Plow]

This whole thing is just a big silent war. West vs. East. atleast thats what i think.

That's the problem. We view it as an issue that needs to be dealt with concerning one specific problem. You view it as a war of you against us.




(edit, not *the* single solitary problem in the world, but a *huuuuuuge* part of the issue of terrorism. One side views it as a war the other side views it as 'wtf is wrong with these guys stop attacking us')

[Maxxthepenguin]

Firas: Do you want there to be peace or do you want to constantly be at war?

[Keno]

When guartz started posting I stopped reading though one thing stuck out; Apparently nobody wanted the jews after the holocaust and we made Israel, right?

Again, this is a misconception - jews didn't all decide, across many different countries, to emigrate to what is now known as Israel because "noone else wanted them" - for the most part they could've stayed in the countries they were from before the holocaust. Rocl might've just been saying this to set up his palesrael joke though

Yeah, wouldn't you want to stay in a country that rounded up all of your race and systematically executed everyone close to you? That would instill a great sense of national pride and safety in me. Oh wait, it's the exact opposite. At the end of WW2, sure, the Jews could have all stayed in their respective countries, but I'm sure the sentiment was, "I need to get the fuck out of Europe."

[Exoduso]

Firas: Do you want there to be peace or do you want to constantly be at war?

What do you honestly think lol..

And rofl @ guartz' quote in your sig...

[Kiro]

I haven't finished reading this thread, but what Keno was saying when it came to Native Americans is probably some of the dumbest shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading on the internet. Not even 4chan retardation compares to that shit.

For the first time on the internet I feel offended, rofl.

[skurlover]

This whole thing is just a big silent war. West vs. East. atleast thats what i think.

That's the problem. We view it as an issue that needs to be dealt with concerning one specific problem. You view it as a war of you against us.




(edit, not *the* single solitary problem in the world, but a *huuuuuuge* part of the issue of terrorism. One side views it as a war the other side views it as 'wtf is wrong with these guys stop attacking us')

Now that I finally see someone getting the situation correctly, we can start with the "United States' ficial policy towards certain governments is what caused all of this. The U.S. policy is what caused 9/11, not crazy fucking jihadists. Down with AmeriKKKKKKKAAAA!!!"

[Keno]

I haven't finished reading this thread, but what Keno was saying when it came to Native Americans is probably some of the dumbest shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading on the internet. Not even 4chan retardation compares to that shit.

For the first time on the internet I feel offended, rofl.

Fucking native americans....

EDIT: Sorry I find nothing wrong with how the US treated the Native Americans. That was war at the time. Boo hoo, get over it.

DBL EDIT: Maybe I should rephrase. Yes, I realize they committed numerous attrocities against the Native Americans (which the NA reciprocated in kind), I just don't care.

[Kiro]

DBL EDIT: Maybe I should rephrase. Yes, I realize they committed numerous attrocities against the Native Americans (which the NA reciprocated in kind), I just don't care.

WOW THAT'S A XBOX SIZED SURPRISE.

Idiot.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah, wouldn't you want to stay in a country that rounded up all of your race and systematically executed everyone close to you? That would instill a great sense of national pride and safety in me. Oh wait, it's the exact opposite. At the end of WW2, sure, the Jews could have all stayed in their respective countries, but I'm sure the sentiment was, "I need to get the fuck out of Europe."

I'll let you take this one.

That was war at the time. Boo hoo, get over it.

[Keno]

Yeah, wouldn't you want to stay in a country that rounded up all of your race and systematically executed everyone close to you? That would instill a great sense of national pride and safety in me. Oh wait, it's the exact opposite. At the end of WW2, sure, the Jews could have all stayed in their respective countries, but I'm sure the sentiment was, "I need to get the fuck out of Europe."

I'll let you take this one.

That was war at the time. Boo hoo, get over it.

Umm, the Jews DID get over it. Thats why you don't hear Jews/Israeli's running around constantly whining about how unfair and sick WW2 was. It happened, it was sick, it was uncalled for, but it's fucking over. We got over it and I'd say the Holocaust is equally comparable to NA genocide committed by the USA settlers, so they should fucking get over it too. Oh, and for those of you who say "Well maybe it didn't affect you a lot, that's why you got over it so easily." Well my great grandfather on my mom's side died in a concentration camp, so that clearly isn't true. People need to leave things in the past and stop carrying all this hate. THAT is why I don't care about what the settlers did to the NA, because it really isn't important anymore. Just like how it isn't important how we got into the Israel/Palestine conflict, what's important is how we resolve the issue.

Kiro, care to point out why you think I'm such a retard?

[archibaldcrane]

...Keno, the point was if the Jews "got over it since it was war" they wouldn't have to leave their native countries and go to Israel. They "got over it" once they had their own country. Native Americans have little shitty reservations. This analogy is starting to fall apart, but yeah.

This isn't necessarily my opinion (although I don't see the creation of Israel to have been "necessary" by any means), but I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

[Slott]

Even if the "jews got over it" That doesn't mean certain radicals where they lived wouldn't continue to do ill things against the them. Just because the war was over doesn't mean all the hate and animosity would end. Hell look at the south, you still see stupid bullshit lynchings and other terrible things. Or hell, the Neo Nazi's that went to israel and started beating the shit out of jews in their own country, but at least it's alot less common in israel than elsewhere

[Keno]

...Keno, the point was if the Jews "got over it since it was war" they wouldn't have to leave their native countries and go to Israel. They "got over it" once they had their own country. Native Americans have little shitty reservations. This analogy is starting to fall apart, but yeah.

This isn't necessarily my opinion (although I don't see the creation of Israel to have been "necessary" by any means), but I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

They didn't leave their home countries because they were angry with them, they left because they were afraid. Big difference. Palestinians aren't afraid of living there, they'd just rather live in Israel. Very subtle, but it does make a huge difference I think. Native American reservations are comparably proportionate to Israel's size (if you look at entire US >> NA reservations and then the entirety of Europe >> Israel it's about a proportionate drop), so I'm not sure if that argument of yours holds up.

EDIT: From wiki:

The collective geographical area of all reservations is 55.7 million acres (225,410 km²), representing 2.3% of the area of the United States

And now for Israel's size:

22,072 km²

So you were saying something about the reservations being small? They're a combined ten times the size of Israel.

LOL, more fun facts. A combined total population for the native americans living on reservations of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000,000-1,200,000, while the combined population of Israel is over 7,000,000. So yeah, 1/7 the amount of people for 10 times the amount of size. Sure is small....

[archibaldcrane]

Sure, but is the current situation safer? As soon as Israel was formed they were attacked by 3 different nations, and have been at war with their neighbors in varying degrees ever since. It just doesn't seem like a good solution.

[Keno]

Sure, but is the current situation safer? As soon as Israel was formed they were attacked by 3 different nations, and have been at war with their neighbors in varying degrees ever since. It just doesn't seem like a good solution.

Do you have an alternative? Keep in mind we can't go back in time. Sure, it probably wasn't optimal to establish Israel and give it to the European Jews, but that's what happened. All we can do now is try and fix that. And yes, I would agree it isn't any safer there for them, but I'm sure at the time they weren't aware there would be such turmoil over the region. Or if they did know, then I guess they weighed the costs and benefits and decided it was the best solution for them at the time.

[archibaldcrane]

Sure, but is the current situation safer? As soon as Israel was formed they were attacked by 3 different nations, and have been at war with their neighbors in varying degrees ever since. It just doesn't seem like a good solution.

Do you have an alternative? Keep in mind we can't go back in time. Sure, it probably wasn't optimal to establish Israel and give it to the European Jews, but that's what happened. All we can do now is try and fix that. And yes, I would agree it isn't any safer there for them, but I'm sure at the time they weren't aware there would be such turmoil over the region. Or if they did know, then I guess they weighed the costs and benefits and decided it was the best solution for them at the time.

I agree, it is fucked and it happened, so it has to be dealt with in the present. However, continuing to keep a group of people disenfranchised without a home, as the people in the "occupied territories" are, isn't a solution. They either need their own nation, or be provided with proper representation as a full-fledged part of Israel (which would probably involve Israel dropping it's "Jew-country" status) among other things.

However most Israelis don't feel like the creation of Israel was "wrong" and they feel they deserve that land as prescribed by their religion. The occupied territories should remain just as a buffer zone to future aggression, the "palestinians" are just all terrorists who don't deserve autonomy, etc. etc. It's not going to be solved.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Firas: Do you want there to be peace or do you want to constantly be at war?

What do you honestly think lol..

And rofl @ guartz' quote in your sig...

I honestly think he wants peace but doesn't understand that peace means dropping the arbitrary hatred and learning to live with each other.

I say I think he wants peace because he is against killing civilians, which is what wars tend to do.

And yeah, it is an amazing quote

[Kuya]

I honestly think he wants peace but doesn't understand that peace means dropping the arbitrary hatred and learning to live with each other.

Oh boy Maxx, your solutions are so thought out and practical. I am simply in love with your candy ghandi words of friendship.

Excuse me, while i go solve all our problems with the power of heart.