Mitchell Report

[Cephius]

The Mitchell report was good in some regards, as in the people where there was tangible proof that they in fact used steroids. But to give names of people when the only evidence was some trainer, and not even give them a chance to defend themselves?

How long has it been since the mitchell report was announced? How long did it take for Andy Pettite or the dude from ESPN to admit their wrong-doing? 1-2 days? If Roger didn't do it then why did it take so fucking long for him to say anything.You mean to tell me that if the dude was truly innocent, he'd wait nearly a month to even go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence? If someone tried to erase every accomplishment, every milestone, every record that you've set over the course of your career, you'd just sit there and watch? You expect us to believe him when he sat there and held a retarded 60 minutes interview (4 weeks later, mind you) and the best he can say is "it never happend."?

How stupid do you think we are? Or better yet, how stupid are you for defending him?

What fucking planet do you live on? Clemens denied everything (a statement through his lawyer) within HOURS of the Mitchell news conference. He even restated how shocked and angry he was in the interview on 60 minutes. And what, because he waited awhile before going on 60 minutes means hes guilty? Your logic is by far the most retarded in this thread.

[wyrmtung]

Ceph...buddy...you...can't defend Clemens here without defending Bonds as well. You believe Bonds shot up steroids like it was his job?

OMG HOW DARE YOU CONVICT HIM WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, WITHOUT PROOF! IT'S ALL HERESAY!

You see how this works?

No one is bringing charges against Clemens, he's only being tried in the court of public opinion.

...now, if he goes in front of Congress and says again that he never used steroids, and evidence pops up against him we have a different story...

...erm, well, cept for that he's white.

Actually I can. The fact that Bonds was a slim little guy for 75% of his career, and then all of a sudden blossomed to a 70-home-runs-per-year guy in his 40s is proof to me that he did steroids. You just don't gain 100 pounds of muscles out of nowhere. And you don't peak in your 40s, in any sport, in any world.

Clemens, on the other hand, is known for his hard work ethic and unlike Bonds, did not peak in his 40s, he just managed to stay competitive. His best years were arguably well before he was even accused of using steroids, and even then, if you look at Clemens body build in the 1980s and 1990s he has the EXACT same build now that he had back then. You say the case of Bonds and Clemens are the same thing, I say its apples and oranges. It is undeniably clear in Bond's case, but all you can say about Clemens is that he kept competing beyond when a normal body breaks down. Does that mean steroids? No. Does all of a sudden putting on 100 pounds of muscle and hitting 70 home runs in your 40s mean steroids? More than fucking likely.

And by the way, McNamee didn't stand up in court and testify against Clemens. He was sat down and threatened with jailtime unless he gave a name. It wasn't done in court, it was done in a meeting and he gave a statement which included Clemens. Which part of this doesn't sound like a witch hunt?

And lol @ all the other people who say "Well Petitte came forward! Giambi came forward, why didn't Clemens!" NEWS FLASH CLEMENS IS NOT GIAMBI OR PETTITE! All I'm saying is what if the guy is innocent, no one is even entertaining the idea, the only thing against him is that OTHER people are confessing and he "seems" to be guilty because "he looked funny on 60 minutes." Give me a break.

EDIT: You all seem convinced that I think Clemens is innocent, but I don't. I just don't know, and that's just it. You don't KNOW the truth, so instead of being a fucking sheep and going OMGZ HE CLEARLY TOOK STEROIDS TAKE AWAY ALL HIS AWARDS I'm simply pointing out the POSSIBILITY that he may be innocent, and at the very least deserves some leeway due to a 25 year career as one of the best pitchers in baseball. Cause I know this "possibly innocent" thing is difficult for some of you to grasp.

Good job for using facts and figures to support your argument. Bad job for using facts and figures that you made up off the top of your head.

[wyrmtung]

Here's a couple of good (good because they agree with my opinion) articles that sum up my thoughts better than I could:

These two sum up my reaction to the interview and press conf.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...1&sportCat=mlb
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...7&sportCat=mlb

Short interview with two medical experts on why and how someone would take lidocaine and B12 shots.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=hruby/080107

Funny sarcastic article on the world reaction if we believed Clemens
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=caple/080107


I can't wait for Bill Simmons to finally weigh in. He hates Fraud-ger.

[archibaldcrane]

Ceph. It's possible he's innocent.

It's just not fucking likely. With every player who comes forward and says "the mitchell report is accurate, I used XXX substance" it gains credibility. With every player who comes foward and says "Brian McNamee is correct, I did what he said I did" the trainer gains credibility. McNamee has -no- reason to say that he injected Clemens with steroids if he didn't do so.

Give me a reason he should lie to hurt his friend? He has nothing to gain by falsely accusing Clemens. He faces jail time for doing so.

This is going to come down to this: Clemens says "it was B12 and a painkiller". McNamee says "it was steroids". Clemens says "if it was steroids, I didn't know it was, I didn't provide the shot". McNamee says "you clearly knew it was steroids."

And that, my friends, will be that.

It's possible that Bonds was rubbing flaxseed oil and arthritic balm on his joints too. It's just not fucking likely.

edit: Ceph, if you believe that Clemens might be innocent, then you believe that Clemens might be taking shots of Lidocaine in his ass, for joint pain. And that, more than anything else, is the stupidest thing ever.

Can you get pain relief in your joints by injecting lidocaine into your, well, buttocks?

Dr. Dombrowski: No. Never. Unless Clemens was limited by hip pain or whatever in his buttocks, then no, that's not what you do. You use big deep muscles for injecting steroids. But you would never treat shoulder or elbow pain in that way. If what he was injected with was truly lidocaine, his butt cheek would be numb. And that's it.

Dr. Dretchen: Just a blind injection into the gluteus area, that would be a strange usage of the drug. When you go to the dentist, would you get an injection into your arm? Of course not.

Ohwait, new theory. Clemens is a closeted homosexual with limited anal sex experience. He asked McNamee for Lidocaine to the anus during their secret clubhouse affair to reduce his discomfort when getting fucked in the ass. They had a lovers quarrel - a falling out if you will, when Clemens started seeking male affection from elsewhere in the clubhouse (insert Jeter or A-rod as appropriate here) and McNamee's retribution is this accusation via the Mitchell report. Now they both realize they went way overboard and have to figure out how to make Clemens not a steroid user without them both looking like raging homosexuals.

I'm sticking with that - more plausible than lidocaine in the ass for joint pain.

[Cephius]

Ceph. It's possible he's innocent.

It's just not fucking likely. With every player who comes forward and says "the mitchell report is accurate, I used XXX substance" it gains credibility. With every player who comes foward and says "Brian McNamara is correct, I did what he said I did" the trainer gains credibility. McNamara has -no- reason to say that he injected Clemens with steroids if he didn't do so.

Give me a reason he should lie to hurt his friend? He has nothing to gain by falsely accusing Clemens. He faces jail time for doing so.

This is going to come down to this: Clemens says "it was B12 and a painkiller". McNamara says "it was steroids". Clemens says "if it was steroids, I didn't know it was, I didn't provide the shot". McNamara says "you clearly knew it was steroids."

And that, my friends, will be that.

It's possible that Bonds was rubbing flaxseed oil and arthritic balm on his joints too. It's just not fucking likely.

I still can't believe in the argument that "well everyone else on the list is guilty, he must be too!" How do you know McNamee didn't have some hidden personal agenda against Clemens and chose the Mitchell Report as the perfect time to strike?

McNamee goes to jail if he lies, well Roger will too. Neither makes any sense. Why would Roger lie if it's just going to make him look worse? So far he's done everything that the media said "Roger should do this if he's really innocent". He denied everything publically, he's filing a defamation lawsuit against Brian, and he said he'd testify in court. Why oh why would he do this if he did in fact use steroids? What possibly could he gain from it?

You say he's probably guilty because everything doesn't add up. I say he's probably innocent because everything doesn't add up. Who's right?

[archibaldcrane]

No Ceph, I'm with you - you missed my edit. Clemens received anal lidocaine shots to ease the discomfort of routine gay sex. I'm with you, McNamee has it out for him after being scorned as Clemens' gay lover.

Seriously, this is the best I can do.

[Deejay]

The Mitchell report was good in some regards, as in the people where there was tangible proof that they in fact used steroids. But to give names of people when the only evidence was some trainer, and not even give them a chance to defend themselves?

How long has it been since the mitchell report was announced? How long did it take for Andy Pettite or the dude from ESPN to admit their wrong-doing? 1-2 days? If Roger didn't do it then why did it take so fucking long for him to say anything.You mean to tell me that if the dude was truly innocent, he'd wait nearly a month to even go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence? If someone tried to erase every accomplishment, every milestone, every record that you've set over the course of your career, you'd just sit there and watch? You expect us to believe him when he sat there and held a retarded 60 minutes interview (4 weeks later, mind you) and the best he can say is "it never happend."?

How stupid do you think we are? Or better yet, how stupid are you for defending him?

What fucking planet do you live on? Clemens denied everything (a statement through his lawyer) within HOURS of the Mitchell news conference. He even restated how shocked and angry he was in the interview on 60 minutes. And what, because he waited awhile before going on 60 minutes means hes guilty? Your logic is by far the most retarded in this thread.

Bro, the fact that it took him a MONTH to go in front of a god damn camera to say "I didn't do it" is highly unlikely if he really didn't do it.

If someone from your work says that the research that you've done for a project was stolen and truly not yours, you're telling me that you're going to CALL YOUR LAWYER and have him send your boss a letter saying you didn't do it?

If a friend of yours sees you coming out of a strip-club with another woman (let's say your sister) at 12:00am are you going to fucking "talk things over with your attorney" before you confront your wife and tell her the truth?

If someone thinks they see you cheating on a test and tells on you, are you going to "ask to talk things over with your parents" before you try and remind your teacher about your lazy eye?

If Roger Clemens was indeed innocent, (which he may be) he certainly isn't acting like any normal innocent person would.

Even if you disregard that fact, let's look at the fact that his trainer, you know the guy who stuck the needle in Roger's ass? is saying he did it. This is the same person who used these drugs with Clemens' best friend. This is a fact. If Bonds were in the same situation do you think he'd be given the benefit? Hell no. His fucking mistress was the only witness and everyone believed her. Yet you think the guy who handed roids out to another pitcher on the same team around the same time isn't a credible source? Even if he is lying... how can he prove it? What is he gaining by lying?

The Feds wanted his ass and he spilled the beans. Shit happens.

Furthermore, after Andy admitted he did it, did he go to jail? Did the dude from ESPN keel over and die? No. They're all alive and well. Theres no reason Clemens couldn't have said, "hey, i'm sorry. I took it." 67% of dumbass America said they still think he deserves to be in the HoF anyway, despite the allegations.

I'm not saying for a fact he did it, but right now you can't honestly know well enough to go ahead and defend this person. He's done nothing of the sort to make anyone believe him more than Mcnamee.

[Quicklet]

I feel dumber after reading this page of the thread.

[Plow]

It's ok, 9 legit players, sincerely trying to win (standing there pretending to care doesn't count), will outplay 9 steroid users anyday.

[pohibaba]

It's ok, 9 legit players, sincerely trying to win (standing there pretending to care doesn't count), will outplay 9 steroid users anyday.

Usually your posts annoy me, but that was funny as hell.

[Deejay]

How long did it take for Randy to deny his allegations?

Look at Randy's interview and compare it to Clemens, now tell me who you think sounds innocent...

[archibaldcrane]

If I'm guilty, I am truly sorry and I am going to stand up for what is right, I really am.

I don't know, they both sound pretty fucking guilty to me.

[Deejay]

If I'm guilty, I am truly sorry and I am going to stand up for what is right, I really am.

I don't know, they both sound pretty fucking guilty to me.

For beginners, you're completely taking that out of context.

[archibaldcrane]

Noone knows much about the situation, but it sounds like he may or may not have done something that may have been an accident that resulted in her getting hurt.

It's the only way I know how to interpret what he's saying.

[Deejay]

Noone knows much about the situation, but it sounds like he may or may maybe not maybe maybe not have done something that may have been made for may have been an accident that resulted in her getting hurt.

It's the only way I know how to interpret what he's saying.

Just like Roger "may have" wait, no, was shooting needles in his ass. What it may have been? From the same trainer who gave it to his best friend? Around the same time? On the same team?

What evidence does Randy have against them besides a temporary restraining order? Did he deny to comment? Was he afraid to give details? Was he afraid to at least attempt to answer questions so people wouldn't answer them on their own? This is happening in my county actually lol, the girl denied to comment and she's probably not filing any charges.

And you're saying these guys are in the same boat?

For that sir, I give you a hearty "lol"

[archibaldcrane]

And you're saying these guys are in the same boat?

For that sir, I give you a hearty "lol"

Same boat? Roger Clemens is a douche, Randy may have slapped some girl who is now trying to extort him, or something along those lines.

Her threat to go public would be alot more successful if she'd actually say wtf she's accusing him of specifically. Maybe Randy Moss just isn't a great public speaker, which allows him to say things like "If I'm guilty", which is...just odd.

And if he did slap some random girl, I don't really care. I just looked at Randy's interview and then did that thing cats do where they turn their head to the side trying to figure out...wtf. I've always liked Randy Moss, even when he played for the Vikings against my beloved Packers. Despite Green Bay's success, I wish they would've used a 4th round draft pick to trade for him from the Raiders - might've evened the table at least a little bit this year.

Anyway, this is a Mitchell Report thread.

[Deejay]

I just brought up Randy as an example of how a normal person would react to false accusations. All Clemens had to do was go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence, but no, he had to "go over things" with his lawyer first.

[archibaldcrane]

Bump for epic hilarious justice:

Brian McNamee told congressional investigators he injected Roger Clemens' wife with human growth hormone as she prepared for a Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition photo session five years ago, the New York Daily News reported Friday.

http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/rog...ensandwife.jpgDon't you liek my smexy abs?

I remember thinking years ago when this came out - "ew...tone it down a little there Mrs. Clemens"

[Deejay]

omg lol. what the fuck

[Akiyama]

Bump for epic hilarious justice:

Brian McNamee told congressional investigators he injected Roger Clemens' wife with human growth hormone as she prepared for a Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition photo session five years ago, the New York Daily News reported Friday.

http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/rog...ensandwife.jpgDon't you liek my smexy abs?

I remember thinking years ago when this came out - "ew...tone it down a little there Mrs. Clemens"

Holy shit, rofl.