Mitchell Report

[Xavier]

The Mitchell report was good in some regards, as in the people where there was tangible proof that they in fact used steroids. But to give names of people when the only evidence was some trainer, and not even give them a chance to defend themselves?

How long has it been since the mitchell report was announced? How long did it take for Andy Pettite or the dude from ESPN to admit their wrong-doing? 1-2 days? If Roger didn't do it then why did it take so fucking long for him to say anything.You mean to tell me that if the dude was truly innocent, he'd wait nearly a month to even go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence? If someone tried to erase every accomplishment, every milestone, every record that you've set over the course of your career, you'd just sit there and watch? You expect us to believe him when he sat there and held a retarded 60 minutes interview (4 weeks later, mind you) and the best he can say is "it never happend."?

How stupid do you think we are? Or better yet, how stupid are you for defending him?

Why are you under the impression that this is the first time Clemens has gone before the public? The front page of the New York Times (you know, one of the most read publications all over the world) had an entire article with quotes from Clemens denying the allegations and calling them outrageous the day after the report was released.

[Akiyama]

So, with this new "evidence" and revelations of him giving HGH to Clemens' wife (allegedly), what do you guys think now? I'm starting to question some things. One thing though.. is it's like McNamay (as Clemens' lawyer calls him) seems to be grasping at straws here. I mean, did you see the picture? Crushed beer can where he supposedly kept the needles and what not, good job! I mean seriously.. the evidence is just sad, and it's turning into a big circus show.

[Cephius]

The more I hear out of this case just makes me further believe that Clemens is innocent.

Lets say you are I are friends. Good friends, as in I let you borrow my boat to go take vacations, hire you as my personal trainer, ect. At some point I ask you to inject me with steroids. Why oh why on God's green earth would you be inclined to keep used syringes and gauze pads in your basement as "evidence" incase I someday turn on you? It makes absolutely no sense.

[Akiyama]

The more I hear out of this case just makes me further believe that Clemens is innocent.

Lets say you are I are friends. Good friends, as in I let you borrow my boat to go take vacations, hire you as my personal trainer, ect. At some point I ask you to inject me with steroids. Why oh why on God's green earth would you be inclined to keep used syringes and gauze pads in your basement as "evidence" incase I someday turn on you? It makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, but he used to be a cop, so he's inclined to do things like that. ..right?! Give me a break. I'm going to watch the Wednesday hearings for a good laugh. Also, it's sort of funny how Roger is walking around Washington, talking to all of the guys he's going to see at the hearings. I'm not sure if it's really smart, or super stupid. As far as evidence in the case goes, both sides have some really shitty evidence.

[archibaldcrane]

Well, if there are syringes with traces of both HGH and Roger Clemens' blood on them, then either McNamee is fabricating evidence, or it's a smoking gun.

I'm sure that Clemens apologists like Cephius will claim that it's fabricated evidence...and that McNamee just happened to have Clemens' blood lying around...that he kept from years ago...in case...um...what?

Ever have a girlfriend who would get naked on webcam for you while things are going good, but then things start to turn south and you think...maybe I'll just screen capture a few choice shots here, just in case she tries to go crazy - you know, as leverage a little.

Sounds like a similar situation to me. Clemens is trying to throw McNamee under the bus, and McNamee is saying "yeah...fuck you."

Or revert back to the gay lover scenario I posted a couple pages back, and the blood is from, well, Clemens' inexperience.

[Akiyama]

Well, if there are syringes with traces of both HGH and Roger Clemens' blood on them, then either McNamee is fabricating evidence, or it's a smoking gun.

I'm sure that Clemens apologists like Cephius will claim that it's fabricated evidence...and that McNamee just happened to have Clemens' blood lying around...that he kept from years ago...in case...um...what?

Ever have a girlfriend who would get naked on webcam for you while things are going good, but then things start to turn south and you think...maybe I'll just screen capture a few choice shots here, just in case she tries to go crazy - you know, as leverage a little.

Sounds like a similar situation to me. Clemens is trying to throw McNamee under the bus, and McNamee is saying "yeah...fuck you."

Or revert back to the gay lover scenario I posted a couple pages back, and the blood is from, well, Clemens' inexperience.

Rofl. How did I miss this? D: Well, they are all good theories. I don't know who to believe. I've never liked Roger Clemens, but I'm not letting the cloud my better judgement. It seems like they are just trying to fuck eachother over with these attempts. Their lawyers are also pretty fucking annoying. We've got "It won't be about his ERA, it'll be about his DNA" and "This case will be like the Duke case, etc." .. seriously, it's sickening.

[Deejay]

The Mitchell report was good in some regards, as in the people where there was tangible proof that they in fact used steroids. But to give names of people when the only evidence was some trainer, and not even give them a chance to defend themselves?

How long has it been since the mitchell report was announced? How long did it take for Andy Pettite or the dude from ESPN to admit their wrong-doing? 1-2 days? If Roger didn't do it then why did it take so fucking long for him to say anything.You mean to tell me that if the dude was truly innocent, he'd wait nearly a month to even go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence? If someone tried to erase every accomplishment, every milestone, every record that you've set over the course of your career, you'd just sit there and watch? You expect us to believe him when he sat there and held a retarded 60 minutes interview (4 weeks later, mind you) and the best he can say is "it never happend."?

How stupid do you think we are? Or better yet, how stupid are you for defending him?

Why are you under the impression that this is the first time Clemens has gone before the public? The front page of the New York Times (you know, one of the most read publications all over the world) had an entire article with quotes from Clemens denying the allegations and calling them outrageous the day after the report was released.

You're right, quotes from someone calling Roger over the phone and questioning him.

Clemens even went as far as to hire investigators to question Mcnamee before the Mitchell report was announced. Clearly this is something an innocent man would do.

[Tyche]

The syringe evidence outside of public opinion is largely irrelevant. The chain of custody is impossible to prove over the course of seven years. No judge is going to allow that into a courtroom as evidence. With that said, I still believe Mac, I mean, how the hell can you make something like that up..."I injected his wife..." It's just so unbelievable that I am forcing myself to believe it. Also, the reason the lawyers are extremely annoying and making stupid memorable quotes is because this is a public opinion battle. If they felt this was a real court case, it'd be all "no comment", "not at this time", etc etc.

[Xavier]

The Mitchell report was good in some regards, as in the people where there was tangible proof that they in fact used steroids. But to give names of people when the only evidence was some trainer, and not even give them a chance to defend themselves?

How long has it been since the mitchell report was announced? How long did it take for Andy Pettite or the dude from ESPN to admit their wrong-doing? 1-2 days? If Roger didn't do it then why did it take so fucking long for him to say anything.You mean to tell me that if the dude was truly innocent, he'd wait nearly a month to even go in front of a camera and proclaim his innocence? If someone tried to erase every accomplishment, every milestone, every record that you've set over the course of your career, you'd just sit there and watch? You expect us to believe him when he sat there and held a retarded 60 minutes interview (4 weeks later, mind you) and the best he can say is "it never happend."?

How stupid do you think we are? Or better yet, how stupid are you for defending him?

Why are you under the impression that this is the first time Clemens has gone before the public? The front page of the New York Times (you know, one of the most read publications all over the world) had an entire article with quotes from Clemens denying the allegations and calling them outrageous the day after the report was released.

You're right, quotes from someone calling Roger over the phone and questioning him.

Clemens even went as far as to hire investigators to question Mcnamee before the Mitchell report was announced. Clearly this is something an innocent man would do.

Stop being a tool and answer the fucking question.

You accused him of dodging the public for an entire month after the report was released. He IMMEDIATELY was talking to the press denying the allegations, and had a story on the front page of the New York Times the day after. If I was in the same situation, I'd hire a lawyer too to determine all of my options if I suspected I was about to be accused of shit. You can't just ignore things that contradict your statement.

And that was my point, whether or not you think hes guilty, you're just making shit up.

[Deejay]

What am I making up? lol I even said "You're right" if you read my post.

Show me where he went in front of a camera and denied the allegations the day after they were made? If someone is going to say everything I did in my career was for nothing, why the fuck would I call my lawyer first? If i'm calling my lawyer for anything it's to sue his ass, not for advice on clearing my name. Because naturally, your lawyer is going to tell you not to say anything.

Edit: And now that I think about it. Clemens didn't say shit for a couple days. I distinctly remember ESPN saying that Clemens denied to comment. This happend days after Petitte and David Justice admitted to taking. Clemens issued a statement through his agent regarding the Mitchell Report on December 19, six days after the report went public. I don't know which imaginary article you were reading, lol.

So no, you're wrong.

Edit, Edit: Here's the wtf omg NY times article, too. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/sport ... ens&st=nyt

[Penthesilea]

If I was in the same situation, I'd hire a lawyer too to determine all of my options if I suspected I was about to be accused of shit.

So you're hiring a PI to go after a guy who was JUST your trainer, who wasn't even mentioned prior to the report being released(I dunno if that's the case). I highly doubt that McNamee would confide in Clemens his criminal activity prior to the reports release.

[Quicklet]

He IMMEDIATELY was talking to the press denying the allegations, and had a story on the front page of the New York Times the day after.

This is, in fact, not true or at best limited to I imagine a few people, not "THE PRESS" in general. He waited to consult with his lawyer before making a public statement, his interview and public conference made him look like a calculating schemer trying to destroy the credibility of a man who has little incentive to lie about this and who probably was forced into giving up his name, and he was the one who basically took the gloves off by recording that phone conversation which didn't even answer anything, but it made him look shady which goes against his credibility. To say that Clemens has been acting like you would think a typical innocent person would act is just flawed.

This new "evidence" is odd to have come out now and not before, to say the least, but to be honest, the entire case is going to rest on what Andy Pettitte's willing to talk about. Clemens said they never discussed HGH at all, so even if Pettitte doesn't know anything about him getting injected, if they did actually talk about it, that would be a huge blow to Roger's credibility.

[archibaldcrane]

The syringe evidence outside of public opinion is largely irrelevant. The chain of custody is impossible to prove over the course of seven years. No judge is going to allow that into a courtroom as evidence. With that said, I still believe Mac, I mean, how the hell can you make something like that up..."I injected his wife..." It's just so unbelievable that I am forcing myself to believe it. Also, the reason the lawyers are extremely annoying and making stupid memorable quotes is because this is a public opinion battle. If they felt this was a real court case, it'd be all "no comment", "not at this time", etc etc.

It's not a trial though, it's just a hearing in front of congress. Congress is just trying to determine the validity of the Mitchell Report, since Clemens is challenging its validity. No criminal charges are being brought.

[Tyche]

I am referring to in the future. Both have told opposing stories already while under oath. Which means, someone is going to jail for perjury. When that happens, there will have to be evidence to support whomever's case.

[archibaldcrane]

I am referring to in the future. Both have told opposing stories already while under oath. Which means, someone is going to jail for perjury. When that happens, there will have to be evidence to support whomever's case.

Sure, but as you well know perjury is extremely difficult to prove - I doubt a perjury case will occur that results in conviction, regardless of what happens at this hearing.

[Tyche]

I am referring to in the future. Both have told opposing stories already while under oath. Which means, someone is going to jail for perjury. When that happens, there will have to be evidence to support whomever's case.

Sure, but as you well know perjury is extremely difficult to prove - I doubt a perjury case will occur that results in conviction, regardless of what happens at this hearing.

Well, If Marion Jones (not even half the publicity of this, and already ended in a conviction) and Barry Bonds are any indication, I would be surprised if this DOESN'T go to trial...

[archibaldcrane]

Well, If Marion Jones (not even half the publicity of this, and already ended in a conviction) and Barry Bonds are any indication, I would be surprised if this DOESN'T go to trial...

Entirely possible, just saying I doubt there will be a conviction. I also, in a similar vein, think Bonds will beat the rap.

[Deejay]

If Marion Jones got caught for lying about the exact same thing, what makes your think Clemens won't? If he gets caught lying for any reason, it leaves him open to perjury charges. The only reason Bonds isn't in jail is because his trainer went for him, not because his story was any better than Clemens'/Jones'.

[archibaldcrane]

If Marion Jones got caught for lying about the exact same thing, what makes your think Clemens won't? If he gets caught lying for any reason, it leaves him open to perjury charges. The only reason Bonds isn't in jail is because his trainer went for him, not because his story was any better than Clemens'/Jones'.

Marion Jones confessed to using steroids, that's why she was found guilty of perjury. While that was the right thing to do, it's not a good tactic for avoiding a perjury charge. Clemens and Bonds won't be confessing any time soon.

[Quicklet]

So now apparently Clemens has evidence to suggest he wasn't at a Canseco party that McNamee said he was.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080210/ap_ ... 8bBeas0NUE

What I want to know is why all this "evidence" is coming out now. I mean, who the hell is going to save a receipt for golfing from nearly a decade ago? The used needles is weird, too, but at least in that instance you can understand the rationale "okay, I'm doing something illegal and if I get caught, I'm the one who's going to get blamed so I'm going to keep a little insurance."

It needs to hurry up and be Wednesday already.