advanced summoner info pls

[frodnonnag]

ever since the patch a little over a year ago, i generally figured that +summoning skill over cap also effected accuracy of our magic pacts, both bp rage elemental spells, and bp ward debuffs. unfortunately, i don't have any concrete information on this, so i'm turning to you guys.

here's a bunch of pretty advanced summoner related questions i have.

1. any parses or known info confirming/denying the above, that skill effects magic or ward debuffs?

2. does avatar accuracy gear(Relic/AF) effect magic?
(my opinion is no, just want confirmation)

3. aside from the generally accepted 95% accuracy on pretty much everything ingame, is there any other known caps on accuracy/magic accuracy with avatars/spirits?
(i heard of a hard cap in accuracy from +skill, something between 30 and 60 skill)

4. does skill effect spirit's spells accuracy?
(my opinion is no, wasn't mentioned in update notes back then)

5. which would be better, evoker's legs or +skill(3, 4 or 5) for accuracy?
(probably have to establish how much % evokers would give compared to skill)

6. how much accuracy does gear like evoker's legs give, and do the HQ versions give more?
(obviously relic hands give more acc due to the +2 extra skill...)

7. how much atk does gear like summoner's feet give?
(comparable to one physical attack merit?)

8. does +skill effect regular(non BP) avatar/spirit melee accuracy?
(my guess is no, its not mentioned in patch notes)

[Ashira]

I generally do not much go to KI, but Spira (who pops in here sometimes too) and a lot of the SMNs have nearly all of this info fairly well worked out on the KI Summoner forums. Worth a good browse through.

[frodnonnag]

i talk to spira from time to time on ragnarok, haven't seen him in awhile though. got any specific links to stuff, :ashira: ?

[Ashira]

They have a ton of stickies in the Summoner forum; I personally haven't read them in quite a while. Got a lot of info there though, which helped me in choosing my setups on SMN.

[frodnonnag]

quick browse through there confirms my fears, most of that info is pre patch and doesn't have any detailed info on what +skill does exactly.

[Skeetaru]

ever since the patch a little over a year ago, i generally figured that +summoning skill over cap also effected accuracy of our magic pacts, both bp rage elemental spells, and bp ward debuffs. unfortunately, i don't have any concrete information on this, so i'm turning to you guys.

here's a bunch of pretty advanced summoner related questions i have.

1. any parses or known info confirming/denying the above, that skill effects magic or ward debuffs?

2. does avatar accuracy gear(Relic/AF) effect magic?
(my opinion is no, just want confirmation)

3. aside from the generally accepted 95% accuracy on pretty much everything ingame, is there any other known caps on accuracy/magic accuracy with avatars/spirits?
(i heard of a hard cap in accuracy from +skill, something between 30 and 60 skill)

4. does skill effect spirit's spells accuracy?
(my opinion is no, wasn't mentioned in update notes back then)

5. which would be better, evoker's legs or +skill(3, 4 or 5) for accuracy?
(probably have to establish how much % evokers would give compared to skill)

6. how much accuracy does gear like evoker's legs give, and do the HQ versions give more?
(obviously relic hands give more acc due to the +2 extra skill...)

7. how much atk does gear like summoner's feet give?
(comparable to one physical attack merit?)

8. does +skill effect regular(non BP) avatar/spirit melee accuracy?
(my guess is no, its not mentioned in patch notes)

1. not that i know of

2. no

3. might just be too late, i dunno really what u are asking

4. no

5. general consensus is that smn af2 hands and af1 legs dont stack so if u have hands go with skill

6. no HQ versions dont give more accuracy is a general consensus as well. (avatar accuracy effects are near impossible to gauge accurately)

7. the gain from an attack merit, compared to the gain in my smn af2 feet seems to be smaller. (So in my observations SMN af2 feet gave more attack than one attack merit)

8. I believe it does, from what i have noticed

SE in my estimation, doesnt even understand SMN haha. Hopefully some of my information helped you and maybe other people can fill in any blanks i left.

[Jeryhn]

1) It's hard to parse an ability that you can use only once each minute, but it's my personal experience that summoning skill does help with debuff accuracy through the use of Wards (particulary Lunar Cry).

2) Unless it says specifically that it increases avatar magic accuracy, no.

3) Hard to say because physical Bloodpact damage is nerfed on TW, making this near impossible to test. You'll only really see a difference on EMs or above. However, I've never heard of a hard cap limiting accuracy gains from skill, only from reaching the accuracy ceiling (95%).

4) Summoning skill only effects accuracy on Bloodpacts, and Spirits don't have Bloodpacts to use. However, more summoning skill will cause them to cycle through spellcasting faster.

5) Depends on the Bloodpacts you use and the current selection of your gear. However, you'll likely being using physical Bloodpacts most of the time outside of Astral Flow situations, so Evoker's Spats (+1) are just fine. Also, to answer the above poster's position on whether or not Enhance Avatar Accuracy stats, Enhance Avatar Attack most certainly does. I would find it hard to believe that they don't stack, and far more likely that the bonus on both is fairly small.

6) My guess is +5 accuracy. I've upgraded my Evoker's Spats to +1 and I've not seen a substantial increase (this was before the summoning skill update). This number would also be my guess as to the amount of accuracy the Summoner's Bracers give (outside of the +10 skill).

7) This is harder to figure, again because of being unable to test on TW mobs. Enhances Avatar attack can do one of two things: Increase attack, or increase the avatar's DMG rating. I lean a bit towards the latter, because when I ran a few eyeballs comparing Crimson Howl to the Summoner's Pigaches, I noticed an increase when using the Pigaches or both together, but almost nothing when using Crimson Howl by itself. Using a combination of Summoner's Pigaches and Sacrifice Torque, I once landed a monster 1304 Predator Claws on Vrtra initiating a flail (normal damage is around 540-600). I find it unlikely that a small boost in attack would cause such an increase (in comparison to another summoner's 420-460 damage range, with 900-ish criticals).

8) No, summoning skill specifically only effects Bloodpacts.

Hope that helps.

[frodnonnag]

thanks for the more solid answers jeryhn, although i guess it will lead to more questions in the long run. I'm just so aggravated that there is so much of a lack of parsed information and comparative information gaging what bonuses we get from +skill and AF/Relic bonuses. i don't think its necessarily our slow rate due to BPs that makes parsing hard, its the fact that every summoned avatar is different and everything effects stats that we can't see in the first place, in addition to weird caps and restrictions (TW dmg cap )

offhand, i'm trying to decide how to parse the information i want. i'm considering, since i have a huge +skill build(+63), and the needed relic, a way to parse a single consistent avatar. i think my only option would be to do the level cap trick to get a free perp avatar and parse based on that. only thing holding me back is i don't have a PC capable of playing FFXI.

[Sixtail]

Look for any thread that doesn't have Craftermath in it, that's the best info I can give you.

[frodnonnag]

any thread that doesn't have craftermath or is about lolmeleesmn is usually extremely dated information, prepatch "+mp onry" crap.

[Brill Weave]

You should ask Craftermath over on the Alla Smn boards. :D

[Jeryhn]

any thread that doesn't have craftermath or is about lolmeleesmn is usually extremely dated information, prepatch "+mp onry" crap.

To be honest, this is still mostly true. Unless you have equipment that specifically enhances avatars (Summoner's Bracers, Summoner's Pigaches, Sacrifice Torque, Evoker's Spats), you should be filling that slot with either MP/hMP or summoning skill. Some people may shy away from MP gear, but I keep it to force Sanction/Sigil Refresh latent to stay active. It really is pretty self-explanatory.

Also: Summoning skill is completely useless unless your current skill is exceeding the cap for your level. And yes, even with the skill gains from executing Bloodpacts, summoning skill is still a pain to level. If you're a long way from having a glorious blue number, you might wanna consider a different piece of gear.

As an example, I gear my summoner very much like a proper TP burn Warrior would. I wear mostly accuracy gear (through summoning skill), with the attack bonus where appropriate (Summoner's Pigaches). For merits, I use 5/5 Physical and Magical Attack over Accuracy, as I get most of my accuracy through summoning skill (which I've also merited to 8/8).

[frodnonnag]

sitting at a nice blue 332(+63) jheryn, but my issue is specifics. i want to know as accurate as possible what bonuses we get from skill, as well as our relic/af and the like. i want to work it out so that when i go to a merit camp, or a hnm, i can decide on if i need more atk in certain slots, or if its better to just load more skill. i want to know general resist/miss rates on things like shiva's sleepga or rushso i can get a use from them or gear properly.

off hand the only interchangeable slots would be feet and legs, but i also want this information so i can make a better judgment on my merits. right now i'm 4 acc, 5 atk, 1 matk, but i want to know if i should bother cutting down to a more even spread, or if its even yet worth meriting magic acc/atk.

gearwise i have max -bp timer gear(relic hands, legs, feet, penance hat, yyr)
full af+1, penance feet and austere legs.

[lilfoo]

i sit at 320 summoning skill and my merits are 5 physical 5 m.attack. (damn you sea cape and baha. staff)

I first noticed how summoning skill affects magic acc. when i did dynamis and watched slowga land on 15+ mobs with full skill and saw a few resists with out it. when i pile on skill i see few resists. i have not tried on HNMs though.

with my merits i can say this, PC took a hit when i changed to magic attack. but, Diablos now puts out and the hit to PC was small (less epeen & numbers are a bit random.)

What i want to know dose skill effect the additional affects on some BPs...

[Xerlic]

I'm thinking of levelling SMN (currently 37) over the Winter break, and have always had a few questions about "skill" gear vs. "enhance" gear vs. "- Bloodpact timer" gear. From reading this thread, I understand that +skill gear over the cap basically raises your accuracy, but how do you know if you are in a position to add skill versus something else. Since I have a bit of Nashira gear and Marduk gear, I guess my main questions would be...

Marduk's Tiara vs. Summoner's Horn
Yinyang Robe vs. Summoner's Doublet vs. Penance/Austere Robe
Marduk's Shalwar vs. Evoker's Spats
Nashira Crackows vs. Summoner's Pigaches

I'm talking mainly from an HNM point of view. How would you prioritize gear in that kind of situation?

Thanks.

[frodnonnag]

Marduk's Tiara vs. Summoner's Horn
Yinyang Robe vs. Summoner's Doublet vs. Penance/Austere Robe
Marduk's Shalwar vs. Evoker's Spats
Nashira Crackows vs. Summoner's Pigaches

I'm talking mainly from an HNM point of view. How would you prioritize gear in that kind of situation?

Thanks.

summoners horn is macroed in and out for -bp and perp. use marduks(or evokers if no marduk) for all rages and ward pacts, swapped into when avatar is "readying" the skill.

yyr= refresh, use it for -bp as well, switch into doublet when avatar is "readying" melee bp rages. penance is only good for a -perp build in keeping avatars out between BPs

marduk vs evokers is a argument i dont know either, someone said that evokers doesnt stack with summoners gages, but i dont know any concrete info. only thing i do know is to macro in relic legs for the BP when you issue command.

same issue with feet. i'd still swap in relic feet for -bp.

[Jeryhn]

sitting at a nice blue 332(+63) jheryn, but my issue is specifics. i want to know as accurate as possible what bonuses we get from skill, as well as our relic/af and the like. i want to work it out so that when i go to a merit camp, or a hnm, i can decide on if i need more atk in certain slots, or if its better to just load more skill. i want to know general resist/miss rates on things like shiva's sleepga or rushso i can get a use from them or gear properly.

A general list? You don't even need that. Simply macro in as much Enhance Attack as possible for most of your Rage Bloodpacts, and as much summoning skill as possible for your Wards. As there are only two items that enhance Attack (barring the Leviathan hands), this should be easy enough. You can generally use the same kind of gear in HNMs as you would use in merits, the only notable exception I would make being Sacrifice Torque because of the extra MP drain.

off hand the only interchangeable slots would be feet and legs, but i also want this information so i can make a better judgment on my merits. right now i'm 4 acc, 5 atk, 1 matk, but i want to know if i should bother cutting down to a more even spread, or if its even yet worth meriting magic acc/atk.

gearwise i have max -bp timer gear(relic hands, legs, feet, penance hat, yyr)
full af+1, penance feet and austere legs.

Unless you use magical Bloodpacts readily, I'd say stick with Evoker's Spats if you don't have either Penance or Marduk's legs. Most of Diabolos' Bloodpacts are magical (Somnolence, Nether Blast), so you should be macroing in summoning skill.

Eyeballing your summoning skill, you should be a-ok for converting your physical accuracy merits into magical attack if that's what you're going for.

[Xerlic]

Marduk's Tiara vs. Summoner's Horn
Yinyang Robe vs. Summoner's Doublet vs. Penance/Austere Robe
Marduk's Shalwar vs. Evoker's Spats
Nashira Crackows vs. Summoner's Pigaches

I'm talking mainly from an HNM point of view. How would you prioritize gear in that kind of situation?

Thanks.

summoners horn is macroed in and out for -bp and perp. use marduks(or evokers if no marduk) for all rages and ward pacts, swapped into when avatar is "readying" the skill.

yyr= refresh, use it for -bp as well, switch into doublet when avatar is "readying" melee bp rages. penance is only good for a -perp build in keeping avatars out between BPs

marduk vs evokers is a argument i dont know either, someone said that evokers doesnt stack with summoners gages, but i dont know any concrete info. only thing i do know is to macro in relic legs for the BP when you issue command.

same issue with feet. i'd still swap in relic feet for -bp.

Wait, when is -BP actually calculated? When the avatar is actually summoned? You're basically saying to macro in +skill and Enhance acc/attack gear when you use the appropriate Ward/Rage BP if I'm reading this correctly.

[Nirokun!]

-bp is calculated when you hit the command

the +stats/skill can be added immediately after to retain their effect

i believe it was tested after the smn skill change with -bp macro, hastega [enter], immediately hit +skill, hastega goes off

full -bp effect, full +duration effect from the summoning skill

[frodnonnag]

just for you brill, for the lulz.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...0;num=2;page=1