Diminishing returns on shield skill?

[Ferien]

We'll see. Just like you said about the Company Sword, Sipar is still only anecdotal evidence. I'm not saying it's true or false until someone proves either way.

That being said, if my testing works out, maybe I'll schlep my ass back out to VoS. It would be very interesting if Sipar did end up having that effect, as it would then become one of the best shields you could wear /NIN and in certain other situations.

[Heian]

Oh jesus christ, I have one in my mog locker, I'll go dick around with it. My AF boots are being upgraded right now.

[Tekki]

Zam tests were here

Tested three size3 shields assuming a common base reduction percentage and found out the DEF/2 = 1% thing. From there, he was able to extrapolate the base and find the base for other sizes. Results were:

1: 22%
2: 40%
3: 50%
4: ??

Aegis was tested by myself to give 76% damage reduction (here), so this leads to either there being a 56% base for it, or it just having a defined 76%, not that it matters.

Also, my numbers for Koenig Shield nearly mirror zam's, so there's a point for them. Only problem with going out and testing this now will be that the damage functions are still unknown, so prior assumptions may be invalid now. I used the two most frequent values to determine proc rate and reduction, which I was able to confirm as valid with my Aegis tests, but depending on how random it is now, it may be impossible to find. We'll see how it goes.

What cracks me up with this data is how close the Aegis damage reduction over time is to Keonig.

Aegis = 76% damage reduction on block.
Koenig = 50%(size3) + 11%(def of 22/2) = 61%.

So on shield block your taking 15% less damage with Aegis.

So for Melee DoT reduction with max block rate:

Koenig: .65 * .61 = 39.65% Physical DoT reduction.
Aegis: .65 * .76 = 49.4% Physical DoT reduction.

~10% difference in DoT.

So basically Aegis is a 200-300 mil gil defending ring.

And yes I know I am not factoring in the -25% magic damage that helps on Magic WSs, AoE, and just about everything in the game, as that does place Aegis >>>> Koenig. Its just a common misconception that Aegis -significantly- reduces the physical DoT you take, as the gap isnt really that big.

Just like any other relic weapon, Aegis is the best option for its class, but by no means game breaking. As always, knowledge of job and how you use it > all. Though I have been in quite a few solo/low man situations since I got Aegis where afterwards I was like "jesus, Aegis was the reason I am still alive", so no regrets here.

Its game breaking. When you get close to closing the gap where you have everything you could want for a PLD, dmg reduction gear is just about the only thing that can greatly effect the way your PLD tanks. This becomes even more apparent when perpetually tank for your entire XI career and especially when you solo. Hell... Im getting to the point where Ive tried to farm HQ. Aern organs for a shot at +5 enhancing magic... Just to reduce one more point of physical dmg for my pld/rdm. And yes... thats a big deal to me... 1dmg could equate to 10% and up to 100% of the dmg I take sometimes.

With everything that I have on my character, if I had a koenig in place of the Aegis, It would be a huge leap backwards for my overall performance... not just a Dring difference. Unsupported (gear wise) I can agree that Aegis will be only a minor jump compared to a koenig shield pld... But when you get to the point where you have everything... its a huge jump.

[Neosutra]

Very true Tekki.

The shield has significantly improved my ability to stay alive, manage mp, and solo/duo/low man just about anything and I wouldnt trade it for the world. But to continue up that plane of higher performance you have have the rest of the gear to back it up, the skill the manage it, and the experience to handle each situation (which I hope any pld with Aegis would have).

This isnt world of warcraft where some game breaking item triples your damage and cause deathga to everything in range, FFXI is relatively balanced in that slight pushes in gear help turn the tide, whereas Aegis is a good deal more then 'slight'.

I have to take a step back sometimes and notice how much pld has changed over the last 2 years. I was in a diorite farming party for about 4 hours last week just relaxing and trying to farm, when I take a look over and my whm is lvling her club lol. Turns out she hadnt cast a cure on me/anyone in 2 hours because with Aegis/Ares/parade/autorefresh/ethereal I could main heal the entire party, keep hate, and just have a blast. I ran out of mp once lol, but chivalry fixed that. I am very anxious to see where pld is heading, especially with the possibility of a counter ability for shield blocks O.O.

I will be holding off on Excal though, until the Nyzle relics are unvealed. :bagel:

[Tekki]

the pld nyzul relic is a Great sword isnt it?...

[Maxxthepenguin]

the pld nyzul relic is a Great sword isnt it?...

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Brave_Blade

Doesn't look like it to mew

[Neosutra]

the pld nyzul relic is a Great sword isnt it?...

Its a one handed sword and refuses to drop for my group >.>.

And I hope to hell the Nyzle relics will be more then "ok turn in 100000 imperial gold peices!"

[Titanss]

That sword will be incredible

[willriker]

i just got this shield the other day. (Sipar) Mainly, i made it a mission of mine to get it before that rumored reflect spell surfaces. and i only had the chance to fiddle with it once or twice in campaign.

I usualy *read always* to go these as pld/rdm and was intrigued as to how it would help me recast stoneskin while tanking multiple enemies. my conclusion was that it was much easier to block enough to recast stoneskin, dispite tanking 4 enemies at once. Its anicdotal (sp?), i know, but you should have seen how often this would block attacks.

I also had the chance to try this against Khimaira, but found myself needing the enmity from wivre shield to counter my partner who likes to cure me for hate while i am getting my shadows back up.... god i hate that. So i wasnt able to test this shield out very well on anything really tough.

However, i plan on keeping this shield on me for a while. If for nothing else than as part of my holding set. You know how it is, your the only tank there and the mob must be claimed now! You dont need the enmity yet, but need the survivability.

Based on its performance in campaing I can definately see this shield being very useful where /nin and /rdm survivability goes. In certain circumstances, of course.

[Lampoon]

Personally I consider Sipar the ultimate anti-HundredFists Shield in any situation if you are /WAR. :D

[Ferien]

If any of you guys can do me a favor and actually go out and test it, I'd appreciate it. If the shield procs as often as it does, it may be best just to eyeball it and count procs vs non-procs, so get a buddy and don't engage the mob you're fighting. Also, if possible, log the whole thing (windower has a plugin to do it). Just make sure you're not using Phalanx, Defender, Sentinel, or Protect at any point during the test, or the logs will be useless. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 hits would be good, and should only take about a half hour, and the more of you that post info here, the more useful it is.

Thanks!