New FFXIII Trailers

[Julian]

This is like all the FFXII conversations ever. People are so shit scared of change and want everything to go back to basics.

This is very true. The irony of it is that 90% of those people think "back to basics" means "more like FF7", which was the first one in the series (in their minds). They tend to bitch and moan just as much about the old ones as the new.

Seeing how the original quote was mostly pointed at me, No.

The people that want the series to return to its roots hate FF7 because that's when FF started to leave its roots.

I like the traditional FF formula, and I'd prefer for it to have been left that way. That doesn't mean games can't evolve, change between games is a wonderful thing, but the things that made the game a "Final Fantasy" should still remain, because if the game no longer has that "Final Fantasy" thing to it, it just becomes another random RPG, not a "Final Fantasy," which is what I feel is going to happen with FF13.

Final Fantasy is supposed to be a series based on the previous games, because that's what a series is. If they want to make a non-FF related game, I believe they should give it a different name, they wont because at this point they're obviously just throwing the FF name in it to make money. Kinda saddens me to see the series die like this, but c'est la vie.

I'm sure it'll be a decent game at least, but to me, at this point, it just looks too much like a different game, and not a Final Fantasy.

[Elcura]

Change is good.

The Final Fantasy series would never have lasted so long if each edition was identical to the last. I look forward to each game because they are almost always among the most polished games released on a system, not because I want to play the previous installment part two.

agreed and its expected that some changes arent liked as well as others.
making changes to an established formula is risky, but I am glad they're doing it.

Series like dragon quest nearly flatten the ff series in japan in sales while being ridiculously old school. Just take dq8: battle system is the same one used since dq1. Only change is how the character develops concerning a few things they can be proficient in, like the hero with swords or spears or jessica with whips or even sex appeal (can make monsters randomly lose turns by oogling her lol, monster actions in this game are retardedly funny sometimes and nearly fully animated). Thing with it though is it reused tons of things from many of the older dq games, ranging from music to monsters to story elements to specific equipments, spells, and abilities. It's built upon staples and nostalgia like that and japan goes nuts for it.

The key phrase here would be in Japan. Japan != Rest of the world (despite what a few Japanophiles would tell you).

This is like all the FFXII conversations ever. People are so shit scared of change and want everything to go back to basics.

This is very true. The irony of it is that 90% of those people think "back to basics" means "more like FF7", which was the first one in the series (in their minds). They tend to bitch and moan just as much about the old ones as the new.

Seeing how the original quote was mostly pointed at me, No.

The people that want the series to return to its roots hate FF7 because that's when FF started to leave its roots.

But then the people who want to keep it the same are very few in number. If the rest (or majority) of the world thought the same then I bet it would stay the same. And FF7 wasn't truly that different from previous ones. I mean, only major difference were the graphics, settings, characters and story will always be different so that isn't really an issue and the battle system always changes (not things like the ATB, but things like materia, or the job system etc).

I like the traditional FF formula, and I'd prefer for it to have been left that way. That doesn't mean games can't evolve, change between games is a wonderful thing, but the things that made the game a "Final Fantasy" should still remain, because if the game no longer has that "Final Fantasy" thing to it, it just becomes another random RPG, not a "Final Fantasy," which is what I feel is going to happen with FF13.

This is stupid, what exactly makes a FF game? Is it the battle system? The characters, settings and story? What exactly seperates FF from other RPGs? Nothing really comes to mind for me, except nostalgia (take the googles off). You want the same feeling that previous FF games gave you with newer ones? You say "the things that made the game a "final fantasy" should still remain" but you didn't exactly tell us what that is. Games can't truly evolve if you don't take what's there and change it, change can't happen while still keeping the old classic feel because then nothing has really changed.

Final Fantasy is supposed to be a series based on the previous games, because that's what a series is. If they want to make a non-FF related game, I believe they should give it a different name, they wont because at this point they're obviously just throwing the FF name in it to make money. Kinda saddens me to see the series die like this, but c'est la vie.

Huh? When did the next installment of FF have anything to do with the previous one? Again, how are these game non-FF related?

I'm sure it'll be a decent game at least, but to me, at this point, it just looks too much like a different game, and not a Final Fantasy.

Here's the $1,000,000 question: What makes a FF game a FF game?

[IceSylph]

Here's the $1,000,000 question: What makes a FF game a FF game?

In my opinion, what makes an FF game an FF game is the storyline, the setting, and the characters.

[Julian]

The environment of the games, mainly. Characters change, systems change, but the basic setting has always been a fantasy-style or medieval like. The futuristic/realistic stuff doesn't really feel like it belongs to me.

It's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

[Xavier]

The environment of the games, mainly. Characters change, systems change, but the basic setting has always been a fantasy-style or medieval like. The futuristic/realistic stuff doesn't really feel like it belongs to me.

It's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

Because FF6 wasn't a world experiencing the industrial revolution right?

Hate to break it to you, but FF7 wasn't the first game to begin breaking away from a purely medieval setting.

[Julian]

FF6 still had castles <.<

The environment of the games, mainly. Characters change, systems change, but the basic setting has always been a fantasy-style or medieval like. The futuristic/realistic stuff doesn't really feel like it belongs to me.

It's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

also see: fantasy-like, as in not the futuristic/realistic stuff

[Elcura]

Here's the $1,000,000 question: What makes a FF game a FF game?

In my opinion, what makes an FF game an FF game is the storyline, the setting, and the characters.

Those things aren't at all unique to FF though. There is nothing that can subtract from a FF experience because it's always has been and always will be in the name.

also see: fantasy-like, as in not the futuristic/realistic stuff

So you're saying that Futuristic and Fantasy are exclusive to eachother? Why can't a game be futuristic fantasy? That's what I would consider FF7/8 to be, because while it is futuristic (in the sense that it's not modern or medieval) there are still heaps of fantasy elements in there.

[orinthia]

Japan is the home for these games though, as in ff and dq games are not made for NA/EU audiences, they are made for the Japanese first. Think how nice it would have been the receive NA/EU versions of ff2nes, ff3nes, ff5, and dq5, dq6. We didn't get those when they were first released last I saw and a game like dq8 selling 3mil copies in its first week in japan means something.

While dq series has been really stubborn to change its battle system it changed in many other places, namely what your hero can do or what you have to do to progress your characters. Like in dq3 you as the hero got to make the rest of your pt yourself by creating and naming each person out of a small list of jobs. Dq4 had a chapter series that ended on the hero's chapter and you finding and recruiting the people from the other chapters yet you had no specific control over what they did aside from issuing a guideline command (hilarity ensues, especially if any of them becomes confused lol). Dq5 let you recruit certain monsters into your pt and they would lvl up with you (aside from the story being an epic life story of the hero from childhood to adult+kids). Dq6 had a job/hybrid job system (based mostly on jobs from dq3). Dq7 had an enormous job system (could become jobs that were monsters). All of this pretty low key and easy to manipulate, and as usual, somewhat of a grind fest unless you go for metal babbles or king metal slimes for 10K-30K exp per kill (if those mobs don't run away in the first round and you can actually kill them heh). All while keeping to a medieval theme.

FF has evolved itself with almost every game. FF1 had you choose between basic jobs. FF2nes had weapon/skill proficiencies and no exp (use certain magic a whole lot and you'll get stronger versions, but your str/etc decreases; you get higher max hp/mp by ending battles in low hp/mp, a set back really). FF3nes had job system and summons and exp again. FF4 was more set in stone/traditional, a couple characters changed as you progressed, and they put in a more active time battle where haste and slow can be used. FF5 had job system again. FF6 changed how you learned magic where everyone can have magic (like 3 people could use a little magic natively?). FF7 again messed with how you learned and used magic, gave us more control over limit breaks (ff6 had these but you had to leave your character almost dead and have them attack, a tad impractical). FF8 warped how we learned magic and basically did away with equipment outside the weapon (the magic you learned and your GF/avatar were your armor and stats pretty much, and you didn't have to lvl at all past lv1 to beat the game heh). FF9 was more set in stone and a small throw back to its roots (Vivi! ). FF10 finally did away with the big world map type movement and had a grid system of character advancement. FF12 actually borrows from tactics advance's races, builds upon ff11's battle system, and your character advances in the areas you want them to go to be able to equip or use certain magic, weapons, or armor. Themes change and evolve from medieval to modern fantasy.

FF changed a whole lot during its reign and people not wanting further change aren't really ff fans hehe. Here's to hoping the storyline isn't so way out there that you really don't care to continue it.

[Elcura]

Japan is the home for these games though, as in ff and dq games are not made for NA/EU audiences, they are made for the Japanese first. Think how nice it would have been the receive NA/EU versions of ff2nes, ff3nes, ff5, and dq5, dq6. We didn't get those when they were first released last I saw and a game like dq8 selling 3mil copies in its first week in japan means something.

No game is truly great until it gets world wide fame. The only reason we're seeing remakes of older FF games is because of how successful they are over here. If there's no good chance the game will be successful overseas then why bring it out over here? How can you say that a game that is being released with the intention of being sold world wide isn't made for everyone world wide? I don't see any Japan only jokes or meanings that I wouldn't understand unless I came from Japan. So DQ8 selling 3mil copies in Japan is great, but where else in the world would it sell that well? I can bet you even if FF doesn't sell that well in Japan it more than makes up for it in other areas of the world.

I don't see why you would compare DQ to FF though. They are different games made for different people. DQ is for everyone who wants to stay old school with random encounters every 5 steps and a slow turn based battle system (biased much? lol). DQ hardly ever changes so how can people complain about it changing?

[Tomodachi]

Iono, every final fantasy felt like one to me(even 11 >o) except 12, b/c imo storyline sucked and felt like the game played itself(plz no ff12 arguements, just my opn <3), and im still shocked that im actually dissappointed in one, having playing all the numericals and a bunch of spinoffs(hell i liked DoC @@).

[Exoduso]

Iono, every final fantasy felt like one to me(even 11 >o) except 12, b/c imo storyline sucked and felt like the game played itself(plz no ff12 arguements, just my opn <3), and im still shocked that im actually dissappointed in one, having playing all the numericals and a bunch of spinoffs(hell i liked DoC @@).

I feel exactly the same way as you. I hated 12, it felt NOTHING like an FF until Pharos... gotta admit though, it did have some sparks once you got there (and it stayed at a pretty good pace until the end of the game... I have no idea wtf the writers were thinking up until that point though.)

I think the battle system killed it for me... while it's fun in the beginning, the more you progress in the game and get more gambits and stuff, the less you actually PLAY and rather just move your character around from fight to fight. If you have good gambits you practically don't play the game, which was pretty boring imo. Having a battle every 5 seconds Inside Sin in FFX was more fun than running through some of the parts in FF12 because in X you actually fight.

And yes I know you can turn off the gambits, but then it's way too hard. There should've been a balance for people who actually wanted to enjoy their Final Fantasy elements, ala actually using spells and abilities.

I gotta admit though, getting all the hunts was kinda fun. More fun than any part of the game really (well maybe except the crazy shit that goes on at the top of Pharos. )

PS evil Cid = win.

PS2 Don't hang me, it's my opinion sorry. >.<

[Natallon]

^

i agree with that 100%... i just really didnt get into it until the Pharos scenes...

[Elcura]

I fully enjoyed the battle system, but as you said I didn't really get into the story until the Grand Crystal (core) and Pharos top floor. The 100 floors of Pharos dungeon can go burn in a fire though, I fucking hated doing that dungeon.

[Exoduso]

I fully enjoyed the battle system, but as you said I didn't really get into the story until the Grand Crystal (core) and Pharos top floor. The 100 floors of Pharos dungeon can go burn in a fire though, I fucking hated doing that dungeon.

Oh hell yeah the dungeon was torture, but the shit that went on at the top = win... THAT reminded me of a fucking Final Fantasy plot twist, not the garbage they had in the game up until that point (and while I liked the idea of a war/conflict story, there was too much of that and not enough Final Fantasy to keep me interested, even though I ended up beating it for story purposes and glad I did since the story DID pick up in the last 2 hours or so of the game.)

[orinthia]

I compare them because of how different they are yet how successful they are (and now being made under the same company, fancy that) and because it just doesn't get any more traditional then dq series when people complain about ff being non-traditional. That is ff's charm to me, taking risks with new systems and ideas, like ff8's magic draw-out and guardian force system that basically did away with equipment. The last few FFs have been leaning more and more toward an action rpg feel, like how secret of mana was. I look forward to how ff13 will be.

[Avilaa]

I just watched the FFXIII and FFXIII Versus trailer and I'm sold. I'm definitely going to buy a PS3 asap.. well, no rush, considering FFXIII won't come out for years

[Elcura]

I compare them because of how different they are yet how successful they are (and now being made under the same company, fancy that) and because it just doesn't get any more traditional then dq series when people complain about ff being non-traditional. That is ff's charm to me, taking risks with new systems and ideas, like ff8's magic draw-out and guardian force system that basically did away with equipment. The last few FFs have been leaning more and more toward an action rpg feel, like how secret of mana was. I look forward to how ff13 will be.

Looking back over our conversation I honestly don't know why we're arguing (or semi arguing), since you seem to feel the same about FF's direction as me. It confuses me but then again, I haven't slept in a really long time so it's natural...

[Exoduso]

Again, change is good.. I just want them to keep the stories feeling like Final Fantasies... and FF12 didn't have that feel, at least not until Pharos.

I just hope they get their act together... if the gameplay is fun I don't mind it. Turn-based is too old and rehashed and was just used way too much not just by Square but by the industry so I didn't care they shifted away from it. But FF12 just wasn't fun at all once you set all the gambits up, and to top it off the story sucked for 80% of the game.

I like Kingdom Hearts, I like Eternal Sonata, and I like FFX... all have different battle systems, and I enjoyed all of them because I enjoy RPGs... but an FF needs to feel like an FF, and I haven't really had that feeling since FF9 (FFX was okay I suppose but I just couldn't stand Tidus's whining heh.)

[Zarath]

Again, change is good.. I just want them to keep the stories feeling like Final Fantasies... and FF12 didn't have that feel, at least not until Pharos.

I just hope they get their act together... if the gameplay is fun I don't mind it. Turn-based is too old and rehashed and was just used way too much not just by Square but by the industry so I didn't care they shifted away from it. But FF12 just wasn't fun at all once you set all the gambits up, and to top it off the story sucked for 80% of the game.

I like Kingdom Hearts, I like Eternal Sonata, and I like FFX... all have different battle systems, and I enjoyed all of them because I enjoy RPGs... but an FF needs to feel like an FF, and I haven't really had that feeling since FF9 (FFX was okay I suppose but I just couldn't stand Tidus's whining heh.)

I couldn't stand the characters in X <<; well maybe one or two but on the most part it was bleh.

To me the direction of the FFs is rather positive in terms of progression, they continue to try new things, however ever since they hit the ps2 their story lines seemed to lack that FF feel to them (lol I consider ToAU and CoP's story far more interesting or enjoyable than 10 and 12 <<... well I'll take ur word of 12 getting good later on, I'm still TRYING to pass it lol).

If 12's battle system wasn't so relied upon the gambit system to help you out (cause no way in hell could u do it in active mode and deal with 3 chars at the same time X,x; ) I probably would have liked it 10x more. Maybe this is why I like trioing and duoing with myself on FFXI <<;

[Exoduso]

Agreed... I sincerely hope they get their act together with 13, we need a good story already. >.>

And yeah you owe it to yourself to suffer through FF12 until you get to Pharos, it'll be worth it.