Retards and Campaign

[Wizerd]

Okay seriously SE...

I'm in Campaign with maybe 4 other people, and a bunch of mobs come in. The NPCs all choose 1 to start attacking, but about 5 other mobs are attacking 2-3 of the outside NPCs. So I try to choose one of the 100% mobs that none of the NPCs has attacked yet, and pulled it away. Lo and behold, 2 fucking legionaires follow me immediately. The only reason they even touched it was because I touched it, and it pisses me the hell off. If the NPCs don't have that mob as their target, they need to leave it the fuck alone.

Also, what the hell is with NPCs ignoring Diamond Shell? Immediately after this Quadav used it, I turned so the NPCs were at the back, and its HP was still going down 1-2% every time they swung at it.

NPCs infuriate me. Stay at your stronghold and if someone pulls it away from the stronghold, don't. fucking. follow. them.

/rant off.
That is all.

[Archain]

I noticed that certain people will only attack enemies that are already engaged, especially if you are alone.

I usually go THF and have noticed that it's possible to Hide from the enemies in order to shed aggro. You can use this for frontal WS with SA stacked (Especially if a Quadav puts on Diamondshell, all hits from the rear are 0 DMG) or you can use it to break yourself away from NMs to find a Pixie/Sprite.

Hide hate breaker


If you want to be a dick...

This works really well if you fight on top of someone that just died. When the person accepts a raise hit your Hide macro. It's wonderful fun and I can't stop laughing when it's that melee mage that wasn't raising anyone, lol.

You can also force that melee mage to tank as you walk away.

[Wizerd]

I noticed that certain people will only attack enemies that are already engaged, especially if you are alone.

I usually go THF and have noticed that it's possible to Hide from the enemies in order to shed aggro. You can use this for frontal WS with SA stacked (Especially if a Quadav puts on Diamonshell, all hits from the rear are 0 DMG) or you can use it to break yourself away from NMs to find a Pixie/Sprite.

Hide hate breaker


If you want to be a dick...

This works really well if you fight on top of someone that just died. When the person accepts a raise hit your Hide macro. It's wonderful fun and I can't stop laughing when it's that melee mage that wasn't raising anyone, lol.

You can also force that melee mage to tank as you walk away.

Genius. Does this actually work on NMs, btw? I assumed Hide wouldn't work on them, but you make it sound like it does; I haven't tried yet.

[Archain]

Genius. Does this actually work on NMs, btw? I assumed Hide wouldn't work on them, but you make it sound like it does; I haven't tried yet.

Yes it does. My favorite NM to do it with is Softstep in Rolanberry Fields [S].

He's a murderer, lol.

[Intense]

Works on Conquerer Bagodek as well. I thought the hide thing was common knowledge actually. But alas I...

[nekoshoonen]

Oh i'll raise people I'm not that blackhearted... and no I dont /solo/ other people's mobs.. they generally try soloing mine... and i still can hold hate over many of these so called melee i see in campaign that want curing Joy/Justice/Suppa/Fortitude/AJ/Kurrea Pants/Alky enspells (poison > poison2 > dispel> blind spam) try getting the mob off me if u wanna lol.

whether or not i cure you or not i haven't been to one campaign lately where we lost... Shall i compromise my fun cause 10 people go to campaign solo (i.e. with no mage friends as back up) and just spam cure on them? no tyvm. If you can't survive campaign solo either get a RR earring/temp scroll & some Potion tanks /Au laits or just be ready to die at some point cause people might just NOT cure ya or the other option isdon't go solo.

[Kuya]

Also, what the hell is with NPCs ignoring Diamond Shell? Immediately after this Quadav used it, I turned so the NPCs were at the back, and its HP was still going down 1-2% every time they swung at it.

Please don't bitch about this, please.

[BRP]

The only thing I find annoying at NPCs is that they don't take hate. I mean yeah, they kill monsters faster so you get less exp, but to be honest I care more about winning. The only bad thing about it is as a BLM I can't do shit and soloing them is out of the question since they have just huge HP pools.

That said, concerning killing NMs first. NMs are the only monsters you can't sleep and usually are the only monsters that give NPCs a tough time. If you take them out, two or three BLMs/RDMs/SCHs can control the entry fight.

[Nekio]

I noticed that certain people will only attack enemies that are already engaged, especially if you are alone.

Yeah Arch I posted about this in the other Campaign "ethics" thread. My favorite use of this trick follows shortly after RandomPussyPLD engages the mob I've been soloing away from the main group, and fails to both Cure and 'voke/Flash off of me. I promptly /shoot another unclaimed mob (or 3), then Hide when they encircle me. It's good fun had by all (except the PLD who is scared to tank... I consider it desensitization therapy).

I'm not anyone's tank, either, asshole. It's costing me a decent chunk of gil to keep myself alive in Campaign, since all the mages and tanks are too selfish/scared to work with the DDs. Don't leech off my pocketbook.

[Viq]

I had that problem but gave up, the JPs love to run forward and attack the bst as soon as possible 5 miles down the map before the fortification and seem to instead of prolonging the battle they want it over asap. The NA's decide to conceal the direction for themselves and have people take mobs across the map to solo. All I have to say about the situation is lolwut the hell are you guys playing at.

Oh I also find it funny how everyone leaves the NM's alone to run around, and always attack the lower mobs, But allow tanks like me to solo these NM's, but will only attack the NM if someone is tanking it or there are people on it. I'd class them as the retards, the ones who don't want to "die" so they gang up with people fighting the lower ones instead of helping 1-2 people trying to take on the NM's. Thats your answer. Because they are too scared to die.

If I get no help and then after everyone kills theirs and come to help, i disengage and let them take hate, especially with Conqueror Bakgodek and watch them all get owned. Its fun to have payback.

I find it hilarious when someone decides to try and solo an NM, then spams their HP and {Help Desk} in /say. Once that person dies, they begin to fill /sh with how people are idiots and deserve to lose the Campaign. I know I've seen this a lot in Jugner on Sylph... I wonder which NIN it was...

Protip: Stop being a whiny prick and people will be more likely to help you. It's the same 20-30 people at every Campaign, so it doesn't take long to build a reputation.

[Nekio]

The only thing I find annoying at NPCs is that they don't take hate.

Yeah I always found it humorous when I would stroll over to a mob getting stomped out by 10 NPCs, toss a single bolt at it, then watch him turn to me like, "Huh?... YOU!!!!"

[Garret]

One thing I can't stand while solo in campaign is when jobs with healing capacity refuse to help heal a solo tank.

I can easily hold off 5+ mobs if needed, and handle whatever NM I am on. But not "forever".

Nothing is quite as satisfying though as holding off an NM like Conquerer while asking for heals, not getting any, finally dying, then watching him tear through everyone else like tissue paper and wanting to say, "see, if you'd just given me a fucking cure IV the rest of you would still all be alive."

[Apelila]

The only thing I find annoying at NPCs is that they don't take hate.

Yeah, what annoys me is that NO ONE really takes hate until <80% on a mob.

Me: Oh, that mobs purple, "Dispel->Poison II"
Mob: YOU HAVE KILLED MY FATHER YOU MUST DIE /throat stab
Me: Urk!
Everyone else: stab stab stab

I wish I had THF leveled to try that hide trick.

Also, I try and raise people, but between spaming enfeelbes and cures on random people I almost never have enough MP and i'm scared to convert unless I know its safe. Weak galka = useless mage.

[Schultz]

I'm sorry, but by far the worst thing with Campaign is when you are sitting there after 3 waves waiting... and waiting... 20 minutes passes and someone finally finds the fucking BLU who thinks he can solo one, yet is chipping away at a rate which will take him another 10-15 minutes to kill...

Campaign is not a proving ground, go solo a real mob, in a real zone, with real consequences... If you're too chickenshit to do it elsewhere, then do it near everyone else, not half a map away.

Sorry about the anger here... kind of built up due to the frustration caused by certain BLU's on Lakshmi that do this all the time. They'll also have friends go off and hold others for them... for some stupid reason. Seriously!

[Wizerd]

I'm sorry, but by far the worst thing with Campaign is when you are sitting there after 3 waves waiting... and waiting... 20 minutes passes and someone finally finds the fucking BLU who thinks he can solo one, yet is chipping away at a rate which will take him another 10-15 minutes to kill...

Campaign is not a proving ground, go solo a real mob, in a real zone, with real consequences... If you're too chickenshit to do it elsewhere, then do it near everyone else, not half a map away.

Sorry about the anger here... kind of built up due to the frustration caused by certain BLU's on Lakshmi that do this all the time. They'll also have friends go off and hold others for them... for some stupid reason. Seriously!

They're not trying to prove anything, they're trying to get points while keeping the mob away from NPCs are retards, because SE designed NPCs with far too much strength that 2 sets of NPCs in any area can hold off an entire Campaign battle with hardly a scratch.

If SE wants to have the NPCs be useful while not being overly annoying, they need to fix 4 and a half things:

1) They should take Enmity when they do damage.
2) They should cure players when needed, if they're capable of it, and they should Raise dead players under the same conditions.
3) They should not do so much damage that if they were able to take Enmity, they'd be tanking the entire battle.
4a) If someone runs the mobs a little ways away from NPCs, they should not follow.
4b) In accordance with the above, if there is a monster away from the outpost that the NPCs don't go attack, the NPCs should do a /say notifying the group where a monster is that doesn't appear to be running towards the outpost.

That would fix so many problems in Campaign, including the annoyance of NPCs, the "selfish soloers" (I've done this before sometimes, because there's very good reason for it during certain times of day), and the obvious problem that the only areas Beastmen will ever overtake are the dungeons, because the NMs there are simply much stronger.

You know something's wrong when Bastok's Fort at Pashhow was at 108/150 at the end of downtime today, and then primetime starts, and now it's in the middle of JP time and it's 148/150. How are the beastmen ever supposed to take an area over when the least populated Campaign on the server barring dungeons is only 1/3 beaten down before the replenishing starts?


Edit: Why are you guys so worried about winning when the NPCs can do it for you? That's why some of us go straight for exp, and not take mobs off forts, etc.

And Kuya, why not complain about NPCs ignoring Diamond Shell?

[Max™]

Very well, I won't complain when the mages who want to melee don't feel like curing.

Just get the motherfucking hell off the mob I'm tanking for you, I don't want your Tp move spam if you're not going to help counter the added strain you're putting on my /Dnc Tp reserves, thanks.

You have one of the hands down worst Dmg/TP Given ratios, either toss me a Cure III so I can maintain the rest of the damage I take as I was, or go the fuck away and tank something solo.

Then, at the least, when you do KILL someone who is tanking with your shitty damage/TP given/Spell Spam, toss the fucker a raise, they probably would have been fine had you either left the mob alone, or tossed a Cure III or IV... just one! Just enough to counter the extra spam that you cause.

Me and a real DD, yeah, I eat some more TP moves, but they're killing the thing with me, so the fight is over.

Me and a Melee Whm+Rdm/Nin, the fight lasts as long as it would if I was soloing, except I'm eating two or three times as many TP moves as I would soloing the damn thing.

Take responsibility for the shit you're doing to other people, you aren't just meleeing for free and not hurting anything, YOU'RE HELPING KILL THE PERSON TANKING.

[Cream Soda]

Nah, i gotta call out on that one. DRK/WHM is damn near indestructable in Campaign. I can easily solo lesser beastmen mobs, especially since they're all Aspir'able and don't resist Dread Spikes/Stun like Besieged mobs. Absorb-AGI can practically negate Orcish Counterstance, Quadavs hit like little girls, and Yags take absurd amounts of damage. Even Moonfang Warriors don't hit that hard.

whoa wait a minute. >.> Counters are in no way shape or form affected by agi except that you'll counter MORE with LESS agi. Agi is evasion. The less the evade the better chance to counter since evasion checks first. Counter is not a defensive skill as in parry, guard, shield, and evasion, which are all modded by agi. Counter is a job trait and agi has nothing to do with it lol. Your Absorb-AGI negating counterstance is simply what we call a placebo. Absorb-DEX may help vs counters since counters are considered regular attacks and can miss, so accuracy plays a role here.

[isladar]

Man, I don't know, but on WAR or on SAM I look for stuff to voke. Anything and everything, I'll grab two. I don't see a lot of PLDs doing it, and I think far too many DDs have been trained out of it -- but in Campaign I've certainly noticed that people kind of sit and wait to see that someone else has hate before diving in. Which makes some sense in Besieged, but in Campaign? Even SAM/WAR I have a chance of soloing something. It'll eat-fuck my HP bar, sure, but I'll probably live.

The best part is about voking mobs is that all the mages who were getting aggro suddenly have something to focus on, i.e., curing me. As far as mobs not deciding hate until 80%, I haven't really seen that.. if I voke > YGK or Steel Cyclone something at 100%, I have hate until I lose emnity through damage taken or if someone outspikes me, just like normal.

I don't know.. being more aggressive in Campaign has certainly upped my enjoyment of it. Not voking, pulling hate anyway, and dying because no one is looking at you kinda sucks. Voking consistantly and holding hate means someone's gonna pay attention.

[Wizerd]

Nah, i gotta call out on that one. DRK/WHM is damn near indestructable in Campaign. I can easily solo lesser beastmen mobs, especially since they're all Aspir'able and don't resist Dread Spikes/Stun like Besieged mobs. Absorb-AGI can practically negate Orcish Counterstance, Quadavs hit like little girls, and Yags take absurd amounts of damage. Even Moonfang Warriors don't hit that hard.

whoa wait a minute. >.> Counters are in no way shape or form affected by agi except that you'll counter MORE with LESS agi. Agi is evasion. The less the evade the better chance to counter since evasion checks first. Counter is not a defensive skill as in parry, guard, shield, and evasion, which are all modded by agi. Counter is a job trait and agi has nothing to do with it lol. Your Absorb-AGI negating counterstance is simply what we call a placebo. Absorb-DEX may help vs counters since counters are considered regular attacks and can miss, so accuracy plays a role here.

You didn't think about both ends. By using Absorb-AGI, you're increasing your own evasion, so when it checks for counter on the mob you have a higher chance of it not going through due to evading the hit.

[Cream Soda]

Nah, i gotta call out on that one. DRK/WHM is damn near indestructable in Campaign. I can easily solo lesser beastmen mobs, especially since they're all Aspir'able and don't resist Dread Spikes/Stun like Besieged mobs. Absorb-AGI can practically negate Orcish Counterstance, Quadavs hit like little girls, and Yags take absurd amounts of damage. Even Moonfang Warriors don't hit that hard.

whoa wait a minute. >.> Counters are in no way shape or form affected by agi except that you'll counter MORE with LESS agi. Agi is evasion. The less the evade the better chance to counter since evasion checks first. Counter is not a defensive skill as in parry, guard, shield, and evasion, which are all modded by agi. Counter is a job trait and agi has nothing to do with it lol. Your Absorb-AGI negating counterstance is simply what we call a placebo. Absorb-DEX may help vs counters since counters are considered regular attacks and can miss, so accuracy plays a role here.

You didn't think about both ends. By using Absorb-AGI, you're increasing your own evasion, so when it checks for counter on the mob you have a higher chance of it not going through due to evading the hit.

Either way, how much does Absorb-AGI actually take? Lets be generous and say +30. I'm not a drk in any way, but taking any more than that imo would just be broken so thats my generous guesstimate. 15 evasion negating counterstance is just going to be a placebo. Its not going to lower his hit rate that dramatically to where something that was effectively countering often goes to seem "negated" by not doing very many counters at all.