RDM Tanking and How To Go About It?

[Belkin]

The RDM/NIN tanking guide needs to be adjusted to reflect recently acquired information (Such as VE and CE hate caps) and some other points that have been proven wrong by myself or others. But for the most part, a lot of reliable RDM/NIN tanking information is in the post in my LJ.

I have tanked everything this game has to offer as both RDM and PLD. While in an ideal tank party setup, they will both reach the same destination (Capped Cumulative Enmity and a lofty Volatile Enmity number), RDM survivability via Fast Cast, Stoneskin and Phalanx will ultimately keep you safer while you are solo tanking or holding an HNM without the best support. I can honestly say a run of the mill RDM/NIN can hold Khimaira, Cerberus or Tiamat better than a run of the mill PLD with minimum support.

[Tomiko]

Mog House -> Change Subjob -> White Mage

Have fun telling your DDs to back off when a light wind picks up

You guys must have some shitty rdm tanks. >_>

Sorry, we like to start killing shit now as opposed to waiting.

... you don't want to wait like one minute for some of the strongest hate in the game? I'm not hating on plds though. I like pld tanks, but rdm is just as good, if not better in some situations.

lol ok

There are times for melee burn, there are times for SC + MB. Sorry to say if you do everything melee style, you're dumb.

I agree, only for the fact that Tp Burning Aspi would be a bitch. KB could be doable though

I don't see TP burn Fafhogg being too fun either... Sure they could be done, but jesus that would be a pain in the ass.

Again, you must have some shitty DD if it only takes 1 minute for a Rdm/Nin to cement their hate.

Personally I prefer our TP Burned Fafhoggs. It's a welcome change to the previous shells I used to be in where it was always Blm onry. But then again, maybe I like the idea of being done with Faf within 15 mins of pop when we claim as opposed to having to wait 30mins or more when shells that uses Rdm/Nin claim.

[malak]

Again, you must have some shitty DD if it only takes 1 minute for a Rdm/Nin to cement their hate.

Personally I prefer our TP Burned Fafhoggs. It's a welcome change to the previous shells I used to be in where it was always Blm onry. But then again, maybe I like the idea of being done with Faf within 15 mins of pop when we claim as opposed to having to wait 30mins or more when shells that uses Rdm/Nin claim.

...our Faf's usually last 15ish minutes, rdm/nin or pld/nin tanking, doesn't really matter which. Also, pretty sure we have some solid DDs, lol. I don't know why you keep trying to mention we have shitty DDs. Anyway, at Faf, we usually take 2/3 tanks, 2-3 melee, some support, and the rest BLMs for MB. Makes pretty quick work of Fafnir. Any more melee and it's just spam spam spam, and just a hassle overall.

[Tomiko]

Anyway, at Faf, we usually take 2/3 tanks, 2-3 melee, some support, and the rest BLMs for MB.

We're the opposite in terms of Blms and Melee, so in that situation I can see Rdm/Nin working due to enmity issues with Blms since they generally only gain hate when doing Bursts as opposed to melees which generate hate on a regular basis due to attacks (even though it may be slight hate).

[Medivac]

Anyway, at Faf, we usually take 2/3 tanks, 2-3 melee, some support, and the rest BLMs for MB.

We're the opposite in terms of Blms and Melee, so in that situation I can see Rdm/Nin working due to enmity issues with Blms since they generally only gain hate when doing Bursts as opposed to melees which generate hate on a regular basis due to attacks (even though it may be slight hate).

melee burning fafnir? that is a new one to hear, must bring a ton of outside healing for fafnirs tp spam, and i bet it takes a long time. only way i can see any tank keeping hate, would be if all the melee went /thf

[Tomiko]

No outside healing, and our tanks (we use Pld/Nin & Nin/Drk) are made of win.

[Medivac]

No outside healing, and our tanks (we use Pld/Nin & Nin/Drk) are made of win.

so how long do your kills take with all the TP spam?

[Ryko]

No outside healing, and our tanks (we use Pld/Nin & Nin/Drk) are made of win.

so how long do your kills take with all the TP spam?

8-14 minute fafnirs, 16-23 minute nidhoggs (and the 23 minute fight included someone getting darters, hence the delay). 25-50 minute khimairas (depending on how long it takes for people to mobilize) and ~45 minute tiamats. The only time hate started getting lopsided was when samurais could literally pop off 1k minimum gekkos with WAR sub on faf regularly. Kill speed and hate control are nowhere near a problem. Seriously now.

[Eliseos]

No outside healing, and our tanks (we use Pld/Nin & Nin/Drk) are made of win.

I love you too Tomi ^-^

And the only time people take hate on our Tiamats are triple roars or ryko drk/saming it ): .

[Donsalieri]

I use an Earth staff most of the time when tanking, a lot of RDMs will go duel-beaver tail because they think holding hate will be a weak point. infact- holding hate is the RDMs strong point; and IMO- RDMs dont need quite as much +enmity as other tanking classes. Earth staff is very helpful so that when you get hit, you don't lose as much enmity from damage taken. Umbra cape is also important IMO. After that just stack up the haste and enmity gear. (fast cast > Haste) ie.

yeah thats pretty much it; i usually have someone casting Haste and refresh on me so i dont have to do it myself and can focus on enmity

on wyrms its pretty much Blind- > Dispel ->blind -> dispel in a rotation dispel takes care of the CE and Blind the VE. i Dont use cure to often i find it doesnt have a very good Hate->MP ratio.

for something that cant be slept i add in sleep; sleep II is pretty much the best hate you can get.

[Belkin]

i Dont use cure to often i find it doesnt have a very good Hate->MP ratio.

Except its better if you cure yourself because then mages don't need to and they don't get any enmity at all.

[Donsalieri]

i Don't use cure to often i find it doesn't have a very good Hate->MP ratio.

Except its better if you cure yourself because then mages don't need to and they don't get any enmity at all.

but you also have to take into account the fact that

a) in a situation you need Cure you utsu/stoneskin is down; getting those up is normally my #1 priority
b) you could spend that time casting Blind/dispel getting more hate for the time (cure has a long cast time compared to Blind/dispel/bind)

but alas... everything in FFXI is situational X_X in a low man situation Cure would probably be more effective. i'm really interested in seeing Kaeko's enmity table progress

[Stolin]

I use an Earth staff most of the time when tanking, a lot of RDMs will go duel-beaver tail because they think holding hate will be a weak point. infact- holding hate is the RDMs strong point; and IMO- RDMs dont need quite as much +enmity as other tanking classes. Earth staff is very helpful so that when you get hit, you don't lose as much enmity from damage taken. Umbra cape is also important IMO. After that just stack up the haste and enmity gear. (fast cast > Haste) ie.

yeah thats pretty much it; i usually have someone casting Haste and refresh on me so i dont have to do it myself and can focus on enmity

on wyrms its pretty much Blind- > Dispel ->blind -> dispel in a rotation dispel takes care of the CE and Blind the VE. i Dont use cure to often i find it doesnt have a very good Hate->MP ratio.

for something that cant be slept i add in sleep; sleep II is pretty much the best hate you can get.

Really good advice. I still like the double chainsaw sword or chainsaw sword+ genbu's shield approach though.

Belkin: Hes actually right about that. As RDM you'll be casting pretty much non stop and you can't waste that mp on cure bombs unless you're converting, someone is about to die, or you need to spike hate quickly.

[Naramaska]

Anyway, at Faf, we usually take 2/3 tanks, 2-3 melee, some support, and the rest BLMs for MB.

We're the opposite in terms of Blms and Melee, so in that situation I can see Rdm/Nin working due to enmity issues with Blms since they generally only gain hate when doing Bursts as opposed to melees which generate hate on a regular basis due to attacks (even though it may be slight hate).

melee burning fafnir? that is a new one to hear, must bring a ton of outside healing for fafnirs tp spam, and i bet it takes a long time. only way i can see any tank keeping hate, would be if all the melee went /thf

We did a 7 minute Fafnir with 3 SAM and a WAR as DD. "TP spam" was no worse than it would be normally, and with a WHM keeping them DD alive, the few TP moves that did go off were quickly neutralized.

[Belkin]

When you are hitting the CE cap which happens pretty fast for RDM, taking damage, then Cure 4ing yourself is probably putting you right back at cap.

As oppose to: You casting Dispel and getting capped, while the WHM or RDM supporting you Cure 4s you, meaning they get hate you could have had without casting Dispel.

Unless shit is going terribly wrong, there is no reason why you can't blow MP for Cure 4. Especially if all you are doing is casting Dispel and Blind (Along with buffs which isn't that much MP either)...you are going to have enough MP. It's always nice to rely on yourself rather than somebody else if you can.

I also have Dalmatica, Duelist's Chapeau and a Gjallarhorn in tank PT 90% of time, so I may be biased.

[Donsalieri]

lol yeah i don't have built in refresh; so i have to conserve MP alot, And if your doing your job right, you shouldn't need much curing @ all with phalanx, Stoneskin, utsu and blink (i don't really use blink); you have more defense then any NIN or PLD.

PS. if you tanking Wyrms for your LS; having an elemental resistance set for Flight-mode is SO helpful. its the differance from taking 250 per hit down to 50 per hit; and it will let you pretty much Spam enmity.

[Belkin]

Sometimes taking damage is unavoidable. Khimaira Dreadstorm and Cerberus Lava Spit are prime examples.