Accounts Banned (Dec 19)

[Fadian]

I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind seeing the number of new accounts created each month after a banning.

[Khamsin]

I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind seeing the number of new accounts created each month after a banning.

Probably around 12,460 for next month.

[Tyrath]

how is there anyone even playing ffxi, hasnt everyone been banned yet?

obviously not.

Everyone who is left is a honest, non-botting, non-rmt, hardworking player who doesn't use flee h4x or monopolize NMs.


amirite or wut?

Yeah, guy on my server who claims half his linkshells fafnir and sits at the AH botting all day doesn't hack at all.

[Ashira]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

[Catrina]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

Nah, legit crafters would see those markets, just not 24/7 :D

[ryskar]

RR pin would definitely cost moar than a stack of silent oil. Honestly, I think it'd breach 100k pretty easy on a server like Odin, probably push 150k~

I buy them weekly, I'm a sleeper in dynamis.

[Clynt]

12,000 accounts is a lot of fucking accounts... lol

[Amele]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

and how is that automatically a bad thing? finish the story.

Beehive chips: 60k stack
Animal Glue: 120k stack
Coral Fragment: 400k stack
fire crystal: 40k stack


everything costing more money doesn't make shit less affordable. dynamis and mass bannings sinking all the gil in the economy into a black hole makes shit less affordable.

[Khamsin]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

and how is that automatically a bad thing? finish the story.

Beehive chips: 60k stack
Animal Glue: 120k stack
Coral Fragment: 400k stack
fire crystal: 40k stack


everything costing more money doesn't make shit less affordable. dynamis and mass bannings sinking all the gil in the economy into a black hole makes shit less affordable.

Actually, it makes shit the same as they would be without RMT, as in, a normal economy. It doesn't matter if they take 20 billion gil out of the system, because that's money legit players didn't even have in the first place. It was in the hands of RMT who would have sold it to gilbuyers anyway, which artificially inflates the economy and is illegitimate money (and therefore, a bad thing).

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

[Ashira]

Well, yes, it would be easier to make money as well, but we also would have a harder time getting supplies and item drops for ourselves. I mentioned the NM pop changes and sky changes as well. We'd be forced to waste some money to supply them with more money with items we couldn't get otherwise. :/

[Mystics]

I wonder how many banned accounts were real players stolen accounts.

I wish i could say I was banned id rather have my character not accessible than exploited.. A cool dude posted a SS in the hacked forums that I wasn't banned.. and i was in lolSky... with 6 or 7 of the other hacked accounts.

[Amele]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

and how is that automatically a bad thing? finish the story.

Beehive chips: 60k stack
Animal Glue: 120k stack
Coral Fragment: 400k stack
fire crystal: 40k stack


everything costing more money doesn't make shit less affordable. dynamis and mass bannings sinking all the gil in the economy into a black hole makes shit less affordable.

Actually, it makes shit the same as they would be without RMT, as in, a normal economy. It doesn't matter if they take 20 billion gil out of the system, because that's money legit players didn't even have in the first place. It was in the hands of RMT who would have sold it to gilbuyers anyway, which artificially inflates the economy and is illegitimate money (and therefore, a bad thing).

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

you do realize that the argument made to claim that the economy can't be depressed is the same argument that would be used to claim that the economy can't be inflated either, yes?

I would agree with you if FFXI player economy was a closed system. It's an open system and therefore -can- be depressed or inflated relative to the outside system.

the gil is depressed relative to the fixed index of npc prices - which is all downside for players. gil being worth less per unit is a -good- thing for players because it means that chocobos, limbus soaps, npc items (echo drops etc), and dynamis glasses are also less costly per unit to purchase, since their gil cost remains fixed but their relative value cost floats.

(24 months ago a dynamis glass was the same "value" as a single stack of darksteel ingots. today a dynamis glass has the same "value" as 11 stacks of darksteel ingots. I fail to see how this is a net positive given that, say, noble's tunic has remained steady at approximately 6-8 stacks of darksteel ingots the whole time.)

so given that the player system is a Market economy and inflation relative to itself is immaterial (closed system) the primary upside and downside to the relative value of 1 gil is entirely with respect to the NPC market - which remains fixed.

I would much rather have the 60k one gets for doing a run of the avatars be irrelevantly small than have the 1 million gil glass cost be noticeably high.

edit: it occurs to me that it might be worth noting; it wasn't until december 2005 that guild npc sale prices on commodity items above 20 skill to synth made any sense relative to the actual cost to produce them on the open market; so unless SE really intended those prices to be jokes all along, I think it's pretty clear they had meant for an economy of scale somewhat higher than we currently pay for most things at the AH (hell, some stuff it's getting to the point that it's almost not worth listing because of the fee structure.)

[Khamsin]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

and how is that automatically a bad thing? finish the story.

Beehive chips: 60k stack
Animal Glue: 120k stack
Coral Fragment: 400k stack
fire crystal: 40k stack


everything costing more money doesn't make shit less affordable. dynamis and mass bannings sinking all the gil in the economy into a black hole makes shit less affordable.

Actually, it makes shit the same as they would be without RMT, as in, a normal economy. It doesn't matter if they take 20 billion gil out of the system, because that's money legit players didn't even have in the first place. It was in the hands of RMT who would have sold it to gilbuyers anyway, which artificially inflates the economy and is illegitimate money (and therefore, a bad thing).

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

you do realize that the argument made to claim that the economy can't be depressed is the same argument that would be used to claim that the economy can't be inflated either, yes?

Not really. Going off the axiom that an RMT-less economy is the normal proper state of things, the prices are as low as they're going to go. There will be no gil removed from the system, because there's no illegitimate gil. Since this isn't an ideal RMT-less economy, there's still room to go a little lower since illegitimate gil is still being removed from the system. However, despite prices going even lower than you were used to, especially compared to the all-time high of 2005, the prices are still higher than they should be in a normal RMT-less economy.

Your view is distorted because you were spoiled by the huge inflation of previous years which made us all accustomed to low NPC prices with respect to how much gil we all had. Just because we got comfortable with such prices and are now hurting because things are depressed in comparison to the RMT-infested economy we've been in, doesn't make the inflated economy the normal proper state of the economy that SE is cruelly taking away from us. They're just slowly pushing the economy back to where it's supposed to be. If NPC prices seem high now, that's probably because they were supposed to be.

[Kuponut]

Piece of shit Square-Enix, apparently a Linkshell member of mine was temp-banned when they called out someone else's TP (they were using TParty) and a party member GM called them. Meanwhile the botting german Trash from Remora are still there in Aery (Midgardsormr).

Wouldn't surprise me if SE banned the damn stolen accounts LS, though, also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, yay, let's ban normal players' who worked hard for their characters, while not affecting the people who actually stole the damn accounts.

[Niki]

Piece of shit Square-Enix, apparently a Linkshell member of mine was temp-banned when they called out someone else's TP (they were using TParty) and a party member GM called them. Meanwhile the botting german Trash from Remora are still there in Aery (Midgardsormr).

Wouldn't surprise me if SE banned the damn stolen accounts LS, though, also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, yay, let's ban normal players' who worked hard for their characters, while not affecting the people who actually stole the damn accounts.

Lol, i dont know but i already feel the need to tell you that you can gladly come to Diabolos and kiss my german ass you asshole
As if there is no botting american "trash" on your server. And im sure your LS member didn't get temp banned for calling out TP.

[Lordender]

Why would you call out peoples tp in a party? there are still butthurt people out there who play on ps2 that can't use windower stuff so they will snitch on you. I think people should still be cautious about using windower, don't talk about it on the game unless its with people you trust otherwise some newb will snitch and you'll find yourself temp banned.

[zue]

Yeah I don't get why someone would call out another pt member's TP in /p really. Why bother? On topic: that's a lot of accounts banned. Kind of fearful that the more that SE twists the dagger into RMT, the more hacked accounts we'll see.

[Amele]

[quote=Khamsin]

Anyways I'm glad the Special Task Force is doing a decent job at the moment and I understand not every RMT is gonna be removed, but its so much better now since the bannings

Let's surmise on how things would be right now if these regular bannings/changes in sky/changes to pop NMs never started....

Silent Oils: 100k a stack
Reraise Hairpins: 100k each
Sole Sushi: 150k a stack

How much for harnesses/weskits/haubergeons, do we think? Kirin items?

and how is that automatically a bad thing? finish the story.

Beehive chips: 60k stack
Animal Glue: 120k stack
Coral Fragment: 400k stack
fire crystal: 40k stack


everything costing more money doesn't make shit less affordable. dynamis and mass bannings sinking all the gil in the economy into a black hole makes shit less affordable.

Actually, it makes shit the same as they would be without RMT, as in, a normal economy. It doesn't matter if they take 20 billion gil out of the system, because that's money legit players didn't even have in the first place. It was in the hands of RMT who would have sold it to gilbuyers anyway, which artificially inflates the economy and is illegitimate money (and therefore, a bad thing).

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

you do realize that the argument made to claim that the economy can't be depressed is the same argument that would be used to claim that the economy can't be inflated either, yes?

Not really. Going off the axiom that an RMT-less economy is the normal proper state of things, the prices are as low as they're going to go. There will be no gil removed from the system, because there's no illegitimate gil. Since this isn't an ideal RMT-less economy, there's still room to go a little lower since illegitimate gil is still being removed from the system. However, despite prices going even lower than you were used to, especially compared to the all-time high of 2005, the prices are still higher than they should be in a normal RMT-less economy.[/quote:31ulw5e8]

ah ok, you're assuming that the FFXI economy isn't fundamentally broken. (in its current state, I feel it is; there are too many sinks and not enough sources - and SE is busy banning all the currency reserves and generally reducing gil circulation. so less gil enters than leaves and the water in the well, so to speak, just keeps getting lower.) this has to do with the fact that, even if the sources and sinks were calculated to be balanced historically (I'm not sure they -ever- were) SE has traditionally only nerfed the sources and never rebalanced the sinks. (hi2u whitegate transaction fee, dynamis glass, etc.) the three big exceptions being chocobo fees, outpost warps, and limbus.

Your view is distorted because you were spoiled by the huge inflation of previous years which made us all accustomed to low NPC prices with respect to how much gil we all had. Just because we got comfortable with such prices and are now hurting because things are depressed in comparison to the RMT-infested economy we've been in, doesn't make the inflated economy the normal proper state of the economy that SE is cruelly taking away from us. They're just slowly pushing the economy back to where it's supposed to be. If NPC prices seem high now, that's probably because they were supposed to be.

no, my view presumes that SE's goal was a flat economy. if you take RMT out of the equation entirely we -do not- have a flat economy. assuming a modest 15 dynamis linkshells per server and approximately the same number of limbus shells, you're looking at 90 million gil per week destroyed, before we even start talking about AH fees or other npc generated expenses. at ~15,000 accounts per server, each account has to average 6,000g in created money each week just to offset dynamis and limbus.

throw in AH fees at approximately 1% of the gross sale rate on a given server (there are approximately 10,000,000 transactions a year on the jeuno AH; this is a figure of
~190,000 transactions a week. even assuming the favorable jeuno structure this is at minimum 1million gil; and that's if -everything- is sold for 1gil. taking a better price estimate of 5,000 as the average transaction price, the jeuno structure takes out 19million a week. if 75% of transactions are carried out in whitegate (a fair assumption given the relative population densities of the two zones) the sink rises to 28.5 million a week. if even just half of those transactions are in stacks, the sink is now 85.5 million a week.

the average growth from npc sales per account must now be 12,000g~ and we still haven't talked about chocobo fees (if you average one choco a day at 300g a bird you now need to generate 14,100g a week) or npc purchase prices (and I have no idea how to begin to estimate these, but it is also in the millions) so I think a fair number would be 25,000g a week, -for every account- and this is ignoring the bannings, which as you state is about 'illegal' gil. except the gil is no longer being generated illegally as much: look at the number of crafters deleted: that's gil that's being removed from circulation and reserved to be exchanged for other goods (in this case, USD) and is otherwise legitimately owned. The gil that came from actual exploits is largely gone, excluding of course new gil earned from new exploits which has also been cracked down on.

==

regardless of what SE intended, the economy today is deflated from the standpoint of what is optimum for the average player. I might be a heretic, but from a purely economic standpoint, RMT is -not- bad for the macro economy. SE needs to get rid of RMT but it doesn't for one second have anything to do with the actual price of goods (except perhaps, in SE's expectation of the relative worth of a relic weapon: obviously SE was not happy with the idea that a spharai was only worth 5 scorpion harnesses or one and a half Haubergeon +1) and it has everything to do with player perception and goodwill to the player base. We don't like RMT because we find them disruptive. Crafters' don't like the current economic model because it's killing one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game from an effort:reward standpoint. Just look at the board here: someone asks what craft to start? the consensus answer is: "Don't".


and I'm aware of the slight bias; but I've been playing since jan 2004 so I had two years of watching the trends emerge to use to reference against the two years of decline under the STF bannings. and unless you're willing to claim you actually find the gil making aspects of this game more palatable today than you did in mid 2004, I haven't been able to find anyone who actually prefers the current economy to the one that had slight inflation.

[AoshiZ]

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

I'm not an economic's professional, but I think the fact that RMT are farming and competing with us on available resourses (such as synth materials, NM's, food materials), closes the avenues for us to make gil. Then when the gil that was generated by the extra RMT competition is just deleted by SE (overall i think this is the lesser of two evils) it causes the world to have less currency than was intended.

[Khamsin]

Removing RMTs and their gil from the economy doesn't create a depression, it just maintains normal prices and prevents the insane inflation of an RMT-driven economy.

I'm not an economic's professional, but I think the fact that RMT are farming and competing with us on available resourses (such as synth materials, NM's, food materials), closes the avenues for us to make gil. Then when the gil that was generated by the extra RMT competition is just deleted by SE (overall i think this is the lesser of two evils) it causes the world to have less currency than was intended.

Whether or not that's true, it's still better to remove them all together and suffer a short term depression than allow some to remain. Keep in mind it's an entirely parasitic, not symbiotic, relationship.