Accounts Banned (Dec 19)

[fantasticdan]

One of our LS bank mule accounts was banned in this cycle. SE told our officer who had the account they wouldn't discuss details with him because he couldn't provide the original registration codes, which is in direct opposition to what they've told everyone else lately.

So apparently, if they say your LS bank mule is an RMT because it trades 2M gil a week for your dynamis runs you have to have original reg codes, but if you get hacked you have to have current CC number. I have to say this makes dick for sense to me.

Edit: Relevant info: The bank mule was kept on an account one of our officers inherited from a friend who quit. SE won't tell us dick nor shit about why it was banned. That account and the officer's main are paid for on the same CC. Officer got nailed for fleehacking on his main once two years ago and hasn't fucked with that stuff since. Officer's main account perfectly functional, they just banned our bank mule account.

Edit: I tell you this because I'd hate to see any of you guys who are involved in End Game LS leadership have the same thing happen to you, so if you keep LS bank mules on a separate account, beware since they seem to have adjusted their criteria for RMT banning. Keep your bank mules on your main accounts, or at least make sure you can provide the original reg codes for accounts you inherit from others.

Do you have access to that account? TBH sounds a lot like your 'officer' is just shitting with you and running off with the bank, from how you describe it anyway.

[Amele]

1 Million gil for the person isn't so bad.

1 Million gil vanishing from the server twice a week, for every Dynamis shell on that server, is bad given how little gil comes back into the server.

Keep in mind this is exactly how SE had to have intended it when they came up with the pricing scheme in the first place. They would have set prices based on a non-inflated RMT-less economy, and didn't set prices with the anticipation that RMT would come in and cause unwelcome massive inflation.

honest statement: there's no reason to expect that prices were set any other time than when content was introduced. why do the work ahead of time?

even if you do assume that, that means that they set the dynamis price with no actual experimental data about how well or poorly the system would circulate gil. (given that the game was only running for about 2 years by the time they had no strong sinks.) and it should be re-evaluated for the current economy anyway.

max: I would estimate the total gil loss to be around 150,000,000 per week (conservatively) on servers with 20+ DLS and an economy dominated by the whitegate AH.

[Gere]

I remember the good old days when people made charts showing that inflation was unstoppable due to more gil entering the system than leaving it. The same sinks and fountains exist now as existed then (except for the bannings) yet now we all think gil is deflating far too fast to be stopped. Really though, gil will only deflate until it becomes profitable to sell to npcs and then once that happens, the gil created by npcs will balance everything out.

[Max™]

I remember the good old days when people made charts showing that inflation was unstoppable due to more gil entering the system than leaving it. The same sinks and fountains exist now as existed then (except for the bannings) yet now we all think gil is deflating far too fast to be stopped. Really though, gil will only deflate until it becomes profitable to sell to npcs and then once that happens, the gil created by npcs will balance everything out.

It's already profitable to sell many things to NPC's, the problem with that is, 1 Million for Dynamis, 20k to list a high end item, 30k for Limbus, that sucks out a disproportionately large amount of gil compared to 280 Gil for a Bird Blood, 300 for a Dhalmel Hide, 2,500 for a Quest reward.

Back to my earlier idea, if 3000 People on the server got 50k a week in their Dbox, it would counter out the 150 mil estimated above, any number below that would simply keep the economy "floating" more easily.

[Toksyuryel]

Playing off that idea, how about a gil reward proportionate to the number of region points generated by the individual members of the first place nation that week? A great way to get people involved in conquest again, especially in E.F. (since it generates a LOT of region points), since you have to participate a lot to get much of the reward. I would say give it a rank 3 requirement, same as E.F. The reward will be tracked individually by each outpost you contributed to, and you have to make a supply run to each one to collect your paycheck. The reward should be greater for taking over a region than it is for defending a region. So as an example, let's just say it's a 10:1 ratio like EXP:IS (the actual ratio could be lower or higher, depending on exactly how many region points are normally created, if it's not just the same as CP), if you help take over Kolshushu and Aragoneu by getting 4000 and 2500 region points respectively, you would have to make a supply run to Kolshushu to collect 400gil, and then a supply run to Aragoneu to collect 250gil. Let's say 20:1 for defending, so if your nation owned Kolshushu last week you'd only get 200gil. And again, this would only be for the 1st-place nation that week, further encouraging the competition. Perhaps bonus points for taking some of the really hard regions, such as national regions and lolmovalpolos.

[Max™]

Interesting idea, though a lot more limiting than I was thinking.

Should be hard enough that RMT's can't spam it, high level requirement (why not 75 these days?) and fame requirement (says the guy with Hero everywhere), would do a lot there.

Some sort of obscure side condition (warp to sky, how many RMT's you see using that?) to reward the people who do all those things, and you'd open the faucet going in a little more, to help counter the drain pouring out at the moment.

Seriously think about that for a moment, 150 million gil a week isn't an unlikely amount to be pouring out of the economy.How long can this keep going until either Dynamis is prohibitively expensive, everyone farms Tiger fangs again to get rich (quaint, but do YOU really want to do that?), and or quits.

[Toksyuryel]

Once a week, Esha'ntarl grants a quest rewarding x amount of gil for checking a ??? point inside Celestial Nexus, Empyreal Paradox, and the Walahra Library and then fighting something in Nyzul Isle. Prerequisites: Captain, Hero fame with Tenshodo, and completion of Apocalypse Nigh.

Something like that?

[Max™]

Once a week, Esha'ntarl grants a quest rewarding x amount of gil for checking a ??? point inside Celestial Nexus, Empyreal Paradox, and the Walahra Library and then fighting something in Nyzul Isle. Prerequisites: Captain, Hero fame with Tenshodo, and completion of Apocalypse Nigh.

Something like that?

Little more accessible, otherwise you won't spread the gil around enough, the idea was to have some way to pump a little more produced gil into the system to stabilize it and slow this crawl to zero we're doing.

Also, yay 1500! Go Go Gadget Post-Fu!

[Toksyuryel]

Anyone that wants to do Dynamis seriously (i.e. DL) should have absolutely no issue with that quest. The fight and prerequisites could be an activity the LS does together even. Putting a requirement of Captain on pretty much anything makes it completely impossible for RMT to spam because there is a minimum amount of time required to get there and once you're caught you gotta start over all the way from PSC. Absolute minimum is 46 or 47 days, not factoring in the time needed to reach level 75. No RMT will mess with that.

I really don't see an accessibility problem here for legit players The problem isn't a lack of freebie gil, it's a lack of any meaningful gil sources at all (I myself have been reduced to farming gigas lately to try to fund woodworking). SE just lacks the imagination to implement any.

[Amele]

I remember the good old days when people made charts showing that inflation was unstoppable due to more gil entering the system than leaving it. The same sinks and fountains exist now as existed then (except for the bannings) yet now we all think gil is deflating far too fast to be stopped. Really though, gil will only deflate until it becomes profitable to sell to npcs and then once that happens, the gil created by npcs will balance everything out.

you missed several changes:

net reductions in sources:
changes to npc prices of numerous cooking synths
changes to npc prices of just about every fish ever
closing loopholes in several of the more common fishing exploits
"rusty cap synthing".
proliferation of easier non-beastman camps for exp at all level ranges.

net increases in sinks:
introduction of whitegate AH (double the fee rate of Jeuno: removing as much as 40+ million gil a week more)
introduction of Einherjar
decrease in exp to 75 (increasing number of dynamis events held per week)
introduction of transportation between cities for 300g
introduction of additional chocobo rental locations
introduction of ??? item appraisal (7 tags per week * 15,000 accounts / 3 = up to 17,5million just from assault sources - figure half of all tags go un-utilized and only half the ??? boxes get appraised and you're still looking at 6mil a week in appraisals.)

net increases of sources:
introduction of bad ??? item appraisals (npc for negligible gil that will still likely add up to several million large scale, dwarfed by costs of appraisals.)
introduction of colibri (does anyone not npc these? still less gil than a beastman of the same level would generate)

net decreases of sinks:
chocobo fee reduction (approximately 1/2 to 1/3 price)
limbus fee reduction (2/3 price - saving somewhere in the area of 10-20mil gil a week)
deflation dropping below femina subligar synth value point. (-there's- a shining example of a price that makes no sense in today's economy)



anyway; the sinks got much more powerful and the sources got weaker since the times when we were making charts about inflation never ending.

remember too that most of those estimates were built on the assumption that fishbotting continued indefinitely.

@toksyuryel: recommendation - try fishing. it's the only real gil mint left in the game, just npc everything for an easy time and no real headaches: it'll be slow but probably faster than gigas farming unless you can do something with the socks.

[Melchiah]

One of our LS bank mule accounts was banned in this cycle. SE told our officer who had the account they wouldn't discuss details with him because he couldn't provide the original registration codes, which is in direct opposition to what they've told everyone else lately.

So apparently, if they say your LS bank mule is an RMT because it trades 2M gil a week for your dynamis runs you have to have original reg codes, but if you get hacked you have to have current CC number. I have to say this makes dick for sense to me.

Edit: Relevant info: The bank mule was kept on an account one of our officers inherited from a friend who quit. SE won't tell us dick nor shit about why it was banned. That account and the officer's main are paid for on the same CC. Officer got nailed for fleehacking on his main once two years ago and hasn't fucked with that stuff since. Officer's main account perfectly functional, they just banned our bank mule account.

Edit: I tell you this because I'd hate to see any of you guys who are involved in End Game LS leadership have the same thing happen to you, so if you keep LS bank mules on a separate account, beware since they seem to have adjusted their criteria for RMT banning. Keep your bank mules on your main accounts, or at least make sure you can provide the original reg codes for accounts you inherit from others.

Do you have access to that account? TBH sounds a lot like your 'officer' is just shitting with you and running off with the bank, from how you describe it anyway.

Given the nature of the situation, no I trust him implicitly. Met the guy irl, spent almost a week at his and his woman's place. Add to that the fact that he called me up the day it happened to talk to me about it, no I don't think he bailed with our bank. I think SE banned it on RMT premise because it's only function is holding gil for our Dynamis.

[Dexy]

introduction of ??? item appraisal (7 tags per week * 15,000 accounts / 3 = up to 17,5million just from assault sources - figure half of all tags go un-utilized and only half the ??? boxes get appraised and you're still looking at 6mil a week in appraisals.)

I don't know if it takes the 500 gil directly from your current gil, but I think you only need to trade once and then you can just trade a ??? item without putting in the 500 gil and he does it. I might have got this wrong though.

[Amele]

introduction of ??? item appraisal (7 tags per week * 15,000 accounts / 3 = up to 17,5million just from assault sources - figure half of all tags go un-utilized and only half the ??? boxes get appraised and you're still looking at 6mil a week in appraisals.)

I don't know if it takes the 500 gil directly from your current gil, but I think you only need to trade once and then you can just trade a ??? item without putting in the 500 gil and he does it. I might have got this wrong though.

takes it directly out of your gil as far as I know. I can do SS's next time I appraise something if someone wants it provably tested.

[Catrina]

The fact is: we know where and how gil comes into the system, we know how it gets out, however, what we don't know is the actual amount of people that get or spend gil either way, as everyone plays the game differently, different objectives and playing habits.

Regarding some fees, for example, some don't mind paying double the fee in Whitegate, others use a Whitegate taru to head to Jeuno and list the items, others will head to Nashmau, depends on the person and how much time/patience they have). The same can be said for any other in-game activity where gil comes in and out of the system.

(As an afterthought, I've done about 10 limbuses total in my FF career, many people still don't even have access, others do it like clockwork and there's no way we, the players, can come up with a figure for any of those groups, and it can be said for every in-game activity)

[Kyreth]

It's already profitable to sell many things to NPC's, the problem with that is, 1 Million for Dynamis, 20k to list a high end item, 30k for Limbus, that sucks out a disproportionately large amount of gil compared to 280 Gil for a Bird Blood, 300 for a Dhalmel Hide, 2,500 for a Quest reward.

Back to my earlier idea, if 3000 People on the server got 50k a week in their Dbox, it would counter out the 150 mil estimated above, any number below that would simply keep the economy "floating" more easily.

No. Welfare is not the FFXI solution.

I can go to my usual hunting spot, terrorize the TW/EP mobs for an hour or two and walk away with 30K+ in Gil for items sold. It'd easily support a few more people doing the same thing, and I didn't look very hard to find it. If your 3000 people did what I did, they'd make their 50K in a week, easily. And more. People are so used to "easy money" that the idea of hunting for Gil being rewarding is alien.

People need to adjust their ideas of wealth and how to get money to the current economy, not the RMT-twisted version. The Ragnarok RMT bunch runs a monk pretty much 24-7 through the lower reaches of the Horohuto Ruins, smacking a room full of gobbies up for minor loots and Gil. They get the banstick, as the name changes every few weeks- but they keep doing it.

RMT doesn't do moneymaking via killing things for the lulz. Learn and adapt your own tactics to the new situation- you can do better than they can.

[Amele]

RMT doesn't do moneymaking via killing things for the lulz. Learn and adapt your own tactics to the new situation- you can do better than they can.

misleading comment: smacking about low level goblins for 12-50g a pop is profitable for RMT because of volume. 30 seconds per kill x 24 hours = 144,000g a day.

random player A running around smacking low level goblins for 12-50g a pop is a fucking waste of time because they can't do the volume to make decent money on a weekly basis: at 2 hours a day you're making a pathetic 12k a day.

even in the current economy most crafters can do 30k profit in 5 minutes excluding sale time. the issue is because the gil supply is shrinking, less and less gil is circulating, resulting in a slower sale rate for all goods. some items that used to sell in a day or two (cmn. earrings, etc.) now take months to sell.

slower economy is good for consumers only because it makes it a buyer's market. in a fast economy with good circulation and lots of liquidity leading to high demand it is a seller's market: which translates to more profit for producers and manufacturers (i.e. all of us.)

it's a dirty secret but rmt in terms of spending power is actually more affordable now (excluding dynamis costs): in the 5$ mil era it took 45-50$ to afford a noble's tunic. today on Hades it takes 27-37$ to afford that same piece.

so who is really losing in all this? IGE's bottom line and the legitimate player.

[Khamsin]

so who is really losing in all this? IGE's bottom line and the legitimate player.

Until IGE finally leaves, or finds FFXI no longer profitable for the effort, at which point only IGE loses and the legitimate player wins. Until then, some sacrifices will have to be made toward that end, but at least it's better than allowing the RMT to remain unchecked.

[Amele]

so who is really losing in all this? IGE's bottom line and the legitimate player.

Until IGE finally leaves, or finds FFXI no longer profitable for the effort, at which point only IGE loses and the legitimate player wins. Until then, some sacrifices will have to be made toward that end, but at least it's better than allowing the RMT to remain unchecked.

how does the legitimate player win if the economy is destroyed in the process of removing RMT? you keep referring to RMT gil as illegitimately generated; I point to the number and quantity of craft related bannings (gil which is created by legitmate players being removed from circulation via rmt crafting and then subsequently destroyed by SE when they ban the reserve.) to illustrate that, while your statement was true in 2005; it is not as true today.

the goal is laudable, the means are questionable and the ends are in jeopardy. no, I don't have a better answer, I don't have the information necessary to formulate a better answer (since I can't make a realistic estimate of gil sourcing) but the solution lies in balancing the inflow and exflow, which includes balancing it against the RMT bannings - and probably using rapid cycle bannings to prevent RMT from accumulating gil to hurt their bottom line - regardless of how easy it is to make if they can't keep it long enough to make a meaningful sale they don't make money.

[Khamsin]

so who is really losing in all this? IGE's bottom line and the legitimate player.

Until IGE finally leaves, or finds FFXI no longer profitable for the effort, at which point only IGE loses and the legitimate player wins. Until then, some sacrifices will have to be made toward that end, but at least it's better than allowing the RMT to remain unchecked.

how does the legitimate player win if the economy is destroyed in the process of removing RMT? you keep referring to RMT gil as illegitimately generated; I point to the number and quantity of craft related bannings (gil which is created by legitmate players being removed from circulation via rmt crafting and then subsequently destroyed by SE when they ban the reserve.) to illustrate that, while your statement was true in 2005; it is not as true today.

the goal is laudable, the means are questionable and the ends are in jeopardy. no, I don't have a better answer, I don't have the information necessary to formulate a better answer (since I can't make a realistic estimate of gil sourcing) but the solution lies in balancing the inflow and exflow, which includes balancing it against the RMT bannings - and probably using rapid cycle bannings to prevent RMT from accumulating gil to hurt their bottom line - regardless of how easy it is to make if they can't keep it long enough to make a meaningful sale they don't make money.

The economy will be whatever it needs to be. People define their own prices, and that'll change with the value of gil. As for NPC prices such as Dynamis, those upgrading relics will have to pay more (relatively) for currency than before. The economy may take a dive on the way to eradicating RMT, but once they are gone for good, things will recover and the economy will heal itself. It's a short-term depression with a long-term benefit. Eventually, the economy will be healthy again and people eager to spend. They'll have to work for their gil, so only those with patience will be able to afford things, but that's how it is.

[Kyreth]

RMT doesn't do moneymaking via killing things for the lulz. Learn and adapt your own tactics to the new situation- you can do better than they can.

misleading comment: smacking about low level goblins for 12-50g a pop is profitable for RMT because of volume. 30 seconds per kill x 24 hours = 144,000g a day.

random player A running around smacking low level goblins for 12-50g a pop is a fucking waste of time because they can't do the volume to make decent money on a weekly basis: at 2 hours a day you're making a pathetic 12k a day.

Of course. I don't run around smacking low level gobbies for my farming runs. But I do my kill-and-sell-to-vendor, and it makes me good money. Random player A (nor I) do so- you find places that are farmable, and you do so. (And you don't sit on big discussion boards saying exactly where so the RMT's don't set up shop there.)

Personally, I go through my money as fast as I make it since Corsair eats a lot of consumables- but that's just me.

even in the current economy most crafters can do 30k profit in 5 minutes excluding sale time. the issue is because the gil supply is shrinking, less and less gil is circulating, resulting in a slower sale rate for all goods. some items that used to sell in a day or two (cmn. earrings, etc.) now take months to sell.

Yep. Of course, part of the reason this happens is because people aren't being able to pile on the Gil as easily. You think the average person was dropping millions on single items that quickly by any other means other than RMTing?

slower economy is good for consumers only because it makes it a buyer's market. in a fast economy with good circulation and lots of liquidity leading to high demand it is a seller's market: which translates to more profit for producers and manufacturers (i.e. all of us.)

False. There are always more consumers than suppliers, and RMT's love digging their claws into the supply lines as it's $$$. Witness the prior manipulations and current craftbotting going on. The only thing a high-Gil market will support is more corrupting RMT influence.

it's a dirty secret but rmt in terms of spending power is actually more affordable now (excluding dynamis costs): in the 5$ mil era it took 45-50$ to afford a noble's tunic. today on Hades it takes 27-37$ to afford that same piece.

In a buyer's market, currency goes further. Not a secret at all.

so who is really losing in all this? IGE's bottom line and the legitimate player.

As I'm currently quite happy on my last 800K spending spree (thank you, D. Ingot and V. Claw) and not having trouble generating Gil...I hardly see myself as losing. Prior to this, many of those same items I picked up for the money would have been far out of reach. IGE losing makes me a happy camper, though obviously the account-stealing means that they're making up their supply losses by simply robbing their customers directly.