War Setup Help

[Blackice]

To bring this topic back into the focus of the OP and just plain ignore the douche Searain and his gay manthra sig, I'd say your gear would work fine with a full haste build if you eat meat on mamool's. Your gear has enough ACC already to support the haste. Good luck to you

[aurik]

The purpose of me posting in this topic was not to defend Blackice, you're assuming incorrectly. Our different approaches to this topic shoud've made that apparent, but I'm fully aware that it appears that way.

Regardless, I posted in this topic because I didn't fully agree with any of the preceding posts on the topic of GA's damage output vs dual wielding (including Ice's). Whether or not Ice's post was included in that group of posts I didn't fully agree with wouldn't have changed my decision to post. Thus, the resulting post of me adding my two cents.

Hell, despite all that me and Ice had completely different conclusions. I don't really see how you could say differently as to my motives for my posts.

I didn't say anything about your motivation in posting, read it again.

And, I don't see how recommending the use of GA and WAR/SAM is at all ignoring the fact you're a WAR.

Let me repeat myself then, and fill in the blanks for you. War/sam can't use utsusemi, so it's irrelevant as to whether war/sam is better or worse damage, because a major portion of war's job (particularly in merits) all-but-requires utsusemi.

I suppose you would feel the same over recommending the use of MNK/WAR for a situation?

If someone is asking for general monk xp advice and you blustered into the topic and started singing the praises of mnk/war, yea, I'd probably have the same reaction.

[RKenshin]

lol Ruke, you're so predictable.

So are you with your instant jump onto the topic to defend your weapon choices while providing nothing as a justification to your decision other than referring to anyone who thinks otherwise as:

bandwagoner'ish Gaxe-worshipping attitude (the fuck is this, allakhazam?)

And of course, taking a potshot at Ruke whenever possible. This topic is almost complete with all the Searain stereotypes. In just two sentences.

You truly amaze me.

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

xIce: Wow, what a fucking classless moron; Don't you wish you had a RL gf as hot as mine who also played FFXI with you? Sosry :D

xRuke: I actually refrained from posting anything else hoping that your crew of braindead mignons wouldn't have flooded the thread with their crap but apparently neither you nor them could avoid it, aye. And to add insult to injury ya'll also getting paranoid, lol.

[Skeetaru]

xIce: Wow, what a fucking classless moron; Don't you wish you had a RL gf as hot as mine who also played FFXI with you? Sosry :D

Sigged

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

haha, I'm honoured and so is Mandy/Hotpeppa. Thanks from both of us <3.

[Darkwill]

xIce: Wow, what a fucking classless moron; Don't you wish you had a RL gf as hot as mine who also played FFXI with you? Sosry :D

xRuke: I actually refrained from posting anything else hoping that your crew of braindead mignons wouldn't have flooded the thread with their crap but apparently neither you nor them could avoid it, aye. And to add insult to injury ya'll also getting paranoid, lol.

Somebody has an overinflated ego it seems.

[Blackice]

I'm glad I could entertain both of you, really. If you're GF is infact real, good for you man, I don't exactly fall short in that area of life either. All I was really referring to was that your sig looks like Bruce Lee and some sort of weird man-cat, not exactly romantic if you ask me.

[RKenshin]

I didn't say anything about your motivation in posting, read it again.

You very clearly attempted to make an assumption of knowing exactly why I posted, and (also attempted) to use that assumption against me. Or else, why even say it?

Hey, your posts in this topic only serve to back up Blackice,

And I corrected you.

The purpose of me posting in this topic was not to defend Blackice, you're assuming incorrectly.

As of that's not enough, the conclusion of my post and all my posts so far is primarily:
"As far as damage output goes, they're both about equal and on the same playing field."

The conclusion of Ice's first post is this:
"Use GA."

So seriously, what are you digging for here?

Let me repeat myself then, and fill in the blanks for you. War/sam can't use utsusemi, so it's irrelevant as to whether war/sam is better or worse damage, because a major portion of war's job (particularly in merits) all-but-requires utsusemi.

I missed the part where it was suddenly a requirement for a good merit party to have a job with Utsesumi? Sure, maybe in the lesser-equipped PTs and hell even some average PTs, but really whens the last time you joined a 4 DD + BRD + healer PT (or mixed of the sort) with completely decked out people and had to have them all sub NIN to survive and keep the exp coming in? Or did something about the recent expansion allowing you to go back in time put us back in the stone ages of FF?

A WAR can be as much as a dedicated DD as it can be a tank or a mix of both.

If someone is asking for general monk xp and you blustered into the topic and started singing the praises of mnk/war, yea, I'd probably have the same reaction.

Because that analogy you just made is 100% accurate, right?

A more correct analysis of this topic would be: Someone is asking about general MNK/NIN exp and it sways off-topic into the uses of MNK/NIN and MNK/WAR, where previous to me deciding to post there were extreme posters on both side of the argument. Posters who think anyone that subs NIN now has the wrong idea, and posters who think that /WAR never has any uses for MNK in any situation. I post saying that both have advantages and negatives, and clearly offering no more than my opinion conclude with saying they're both on about the same playing field without getting into all the details that are subject to flame wars.

Whose analogy is closer?

[RKenshin]

xIce: Wow, what a fucking classless moron; Don't you wish you had a RL gf as hot as mine who also played FFXI with you? Sosry :D

Wow @ pulling the RL card.

Nothing left to say about that.

xRuke: I actually refrained from posting anything else hoping that your crew of braindead mignons wouldn't have flooded the thread with their crap but apparently neither you nor them could avoid it, aye. And to add insult to injury ya'll also getting paranoid, lol.

This post is now complete with all the stereotypical Searain responses. Minus him posting his gear and some parses that don't have to do with the subject, but maybe we'll get that later.

This includes just about the weakest retourts possible, and I'm happy to say this includes not only once again pulling the RL card but also referring to everyone who does not post in agreement to his principles in this (or any other) post to be a braindead mignons following my every word. Not to mention, the 'everyone here is getting upset and paranoid for no reason while I keep my cool and don't care about what any of you have to say' type response as he does the ultimate desperate move and brings in his RL situation as some kind of evidence of his coolness.

I have nothing left to say because well, what is there left to say?

[aurik]

You very clearly attempted to make an assumption of knowing exactly why I posted, and (also attempted) to use that assumption against me.

...

So seriously, what are you digging for here?

I specifically said something about what your posts accomplish, not what you hoped to accomplish when you posted them. Don't put words in my mouth is what I'm digging for here.

Let me repeat myself then, and fill in the blanks for you. War/sam can't use utsusemi, so it's irrelevant as to whether war/sam is better or worse damage, because a major portion of war's job (particularly in merits) all-but-requires utsusemi.

I missed the part where it was suddenly a requirement for a good merit party to have a job with Utsesumi?

You must be stuck in your fantasy land where every merit party comes with an outside-healing-party complete with 2 sources of refresh; warrior's job is to be swung at without getting his ass fucking handed to him, and without utsusemi that just doesn't happen. No, seigen does not count.

If someone is asking for general monk xp and you blustered into the topic and started singing the praises of mnk/war, yea, I'd probably have the same reaction.

Because that analogy you just made is 100% accurate, right?

A more correct analysis of this topic would be: Someone is asking about general MNK/NIN exp and it sways off-topic into the uses of MNK/NIN and MNK/WAR, where previous to me deciding to post there were extreme posters on both side of the argument. Posters who think anyone that subs NIN now has the wrong idea, and posters who think that /WAR never has any uses for MNK in any situation. I post saying that both have advantages and negatives, and clearly offering no more than my opinion conclude with saying they're both on about the same playing field.

Whose analogy is closer?

This topic was about general warrior xp and you blustered into the topic and started singing the praises of war/sam, so I would have to say my analogy is a bit closer.

[ryskar]

I'm glad I could entertain both of you, really. If you're GF is infact real, good for you man, I don't exactly fall short in that area of life either. All I was really referring to was that your sig looks like Bruce Lee and some sort of weird man-cat, not exactly romantic if you ask me.

This is correct. Also, lol @ the rl card (If it's a whoosh, it's not a very good one. )

[Mosh]

@OP: Your setup looks fine. I wouldn't use a haste belt until you have sword merits though. On mamool (especially the THF or NIN which will be pulled eventually) you'll need those merits especially. You might even want to use Sushi there. Even with Axe/Axe with 3 merits, I'm not comfortable with using meat there. Unicorn would be an improvement over Amir once you get more Sword merits, but Dusk feet aren't so bad either.

Disclaimer: I do not own Dusk/Amir/Unicorn feet, or a Ridill (do have Joyeuse for the sword comparison).

Summary of the thread:
Judai posts fast.
Aurik vs. Rkenshin go!
You need a RL GF in order to be a good WAR.

[chapstick]

I missed the part where it was suddenly a requirement for a good merit party to have a job with Utsesumi?

You must be stuck in your fantasy land where every merit party comes with an outside-healing-party complete with 2 sources of refresh; warrior's job is to be swung at without getting his ass fucking handed to him, and without utsusemi that just doesn't happen. No, seigen does not count.

Why does Seigan not count? A good healer (rdm/whm) with refresh, ballad, and sanction will be able to keep a WAR/SAM using Seigan alive. For birds, at least. I can't say the same for mamools. Mobs should not be lasting very long for something to go terrible, anyways.

Also, I don't believe Ruke was praising war/sam and forgetting about /NIN as he mentioned that they can be about equal. Like he said, to each his own. Some people like using gaxe and being able to count on their good healer, while some people like dual weilding and using shadows to ensure safety.

[aurik]

I missed the part where it was suddenly a requirement for a good merit party to have a job with Utsesumi?

You must be stuck in your fantasy land where every merit party comes with an outside-healing-party complete with 2 sources of refresh; warrior's job is to be swung at without getting his ass fucking handed to him, and without utsusemi that just doesn't happen. No, seigen does not count.

Why does Seigan not count?

- 3e seigen is unreliable. Sure, sometimes it lasts like 4+ swings, but who cares about the peaks? The important part of damage mitigation is worst-case scenarios, not best-case.
- only get 1 3e per 30 seconds compared to 9+ utsusemi shadows with a proper setup.
- doesn't stop single target spells.
- nullifies the main benefit of even using /sam in the first place (namely, hasso)

[RKenshin]

I specifically said something about what your posts accomplish, not what you hoped to accomplish when you posted them. Don't put words in my mouth is what I'm digging for here.

Wait, what?

Please explain to me how my one post irrefutably but somehow accomplishes these three things:
1) A defense of Blackice's initial post.
2) An obvious disagreement with what Blackice's initial post was.
3) No mention, references, or implications involving anything Blackice said.

I'm either some kind of genius or you are, because even I can't figure out exactly how to read into someone's post so that a person can say another person's concept is wrong while defending it, all the while making no implied references to that person or anything he said, without the reader at least making some kind of an assumption. Since I don't believe the whole genius thing is the case, I'm going to just continue with what I said last post... You're just assuming incorrectly once again.

If you're once again assuming incorrectly that the initial paragraph where I talk about my experience with WAR Rid vs WAR GA (and once again, this being pre-patch) had anything to do with Ice or his post, you're again wrong. Or does my post history here not suggest well enough that I provide reasoning for everything I believe and post?

And, if all these assumptions aren't what you meant to imply, then it's simply a misunderstanding. But seriously, if that's all this is then why does this matter past my first response where the misunderstanding should've been made clear?

You must be stuck in your fantasy land where every merit party comes with an outside-healing-party complete with 2 sources of refresh; warrior's job is to be swung at without getting his ass fucking handed to him, and without utsusemi that just doesn't happen. No, seigen does not count.

If this is flat out a comparison of who has more experience and a better idea of what a typical PT needs and requires (whether it be by encountering different situations in exp/merits/Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar, etc), which is all but what you seem to be suggesting by the idea of me living in some fantasy world and having no idea what I'm talking about, I'm afraid you lose. I hate to assume and I hate to attempt to pass judgment on other people like that, but you're sure as hell not giving me the same courtesy so I've lost my desire to be nice about it.

But, no, you're both horribly and laughably wrong if you think a PT or event can't work without a Utsesumi user. Do you really need proof of this?

This topic was about general warrior xp and you blustered into the topic and started singing the praises of war/sam, so I would have to say my analogy is a bit closer.

Now you're seriously lacking a strong argument. What are you trying to achieve here, really?

I blustered into the topic about WAR/SAM vs WAR/NIN?

Sorry but, to use what you just said against you, you need to read. I make only one mention of the SAM SJ and that was only because I was comparing GA vs Ridill, and if you're comparing GA and Ridill while strictly talking about damage potential you're going to have to at least mention /SAM. Or, are you the same kind of person that thinks comparing an Axe/Axe DRK with a Scythe DRK is best done with both of them subbing NIN too? DRK/NIN with Axes vs DRK/NIN with a Scythe gogo?

In addition, I made it incredibly clear in that post and all my following posts that I was not planning to fuel a /NIN vs /SAM debate when this thread is clearly just about increasing one's damage. You're the one that read into things more than they should have, and turned this around. You're the one that had to comment on /NIN's shadows right after my own post, even though in that post and the one that followed I clearly stated that my point has nothing to do with the utilities of /SAM and /NIN. That's right, you're the one that brought this into some kind of /NIN vs /SAM topic.

You could not be any more wrong. You're the one that blustered this into something more, offering nothing even helpful towards the topic other than your opinion that apparently all WARs should use Utsesumi so they can help you tank in your WAR/NIN, MNK/NIN, MNK/NIN, WAR/NIN, BRD/NIN, RDM/NIN exp PTs where everyone can help tank since that's what every exp PT needs most to maximize efficiency. Right?


Singing the praises of WAR/SAM?

Tell me where I listed one single advantage that could clearly be interpreted as praising /SAM over /NIN? Can't find it? That's because I don't list anything, and I make it extremely clear that I did not want to turn this into any kind of a /NIN vs /SAM topic. I also make it clear that I'm not going to try to list the advantages/disadvantages of /SAM versus /NIN or Rid vs GA or combinations or anything related of the two. However, you took it upon yourself to still try to do that and list advantages of /NIN as a rebuttal to my not even wanting to discuss that (nice one?).

So, if anything you're the one singing praises of other things here that has as much to not do with the true topic as anything you think I said about /SAM.

Holy shit though, the true topic has nothing to do with either of our discussions. I guess it's OK when you do it, right? Either that or you're a hypocrit.

Seriously, what's up your ass about this? Did I shit on your father's grave or are you just enjoying being an asshole to me for no apparent reason over shit that doesn't matter, and isn't much more than a long string of misunderstandings and misinterpretations?

[aurik]

I specifically said something about what your posts accomplish, not what you hoped to accomplish when you posted them. Don't put words in my mouth is what I'm digging for here.

Wait, what?

Wait what nothing. You think I'm claiming something about your motivation, but I'm not, and I haven't. So don't put words in my mouth.

I'm afraid you lose.

I think you need to come down from Planet Ego or wherever the hell you live nowadays.

[RKenshin]

- 3e seigen is unreliable. Sure, sometimes it lasts like 4+ swings, but who cares about the peaks? The important part of damage mitigation is worst-case scenarios, not best-case.
- only get 1 3e per 30 seconds compared to 9+ utsusemi shadows with a proper setup.
- doesn't stop single target spells.
- nullifies the main benefit of even using /sam in the first place (namely, hasso)

Holy fucking shit you're a hypocrit.

You've been on my case like I fucked your mom this entire post, with the primary reason behind doing so being 'me blustering into the topic about WAR damage potential and turning it into a SJ WAR' when I make no single comparison of the advantages of /WAR vs /SAM, other than mentioning the two SJs separately because of the fact GA has the highest damage potential while /SAM and obviously Axe/Rid has the highest damage /NIN (duh), and yet here you are. Turning this into a SJ war while making a completely half-assed comparison.

Nice going there, or should I say, way to bluster into the thread and attempt turn it into an unrelated SJ war.

[aurik]

- 3e seigen is unreliable. Sure, sometimes it lasts like 4+ swings, but who cares about the peaks? The important part of damage mitigation is worst-case scenarios, not best-case.
- only get 1 3e per 30 seconds compared to 9+ utsusemi shadows with a proper setup.
- doesn't stop single target spells.
- nullifies the main benefit of even using /sam in the first place (namely, hasso)

Holy fucking shit you're a hypocrit.

You've been on my case like I fucked your mom this entire post, with the primary reason behind doing so being 'me blustering into the topic about WAR damage potential and turning it into a SJ WAR' when I make no single comparison of the advantages of /WAR vs /SAM, other than mentioning the two SJs separately because of the fact GA has the highest damage potential while /SAM and obviously Axe/Rid has the highest damage /NIN (duh), and yet here you are. Turning this into a SJ war while making a completely half-assed comparison.

Nice going there, or should I say, way to bluster into the thread and attempt turn it into an unrelated SJ war.

Except I'm not even fucking responding to you in this post, so take your fucking attitude and go emo out about your fanbase making 15 page shrines to your livejournal.

[chapstick]

True, it prevents you from using Hasso. A party getting hit with single target spells (aside from Elegy/Lullaby at birds, which are taken care of pretty easilly..) has other problems. How often do you need 9 consecutive shadows on the same mob in a merit party? If the war is using a Gaxe, /SAM will do more for them damage-wise than /NIN will, and if it's not a problem for the healer to keep up, I don't see what's wrong with it if they prefer it to dual weilding.

Edit: holy crap bunch of posts before i typed that lol