War Weapon Question

[Capo]

crit+ on a weapon would only make ws that can already crit more likely to ie. rampage and jin. if it doesnt say crits in the ws description only mighty strikes or sneak attack can make it crit

[Max™]

Rampager definitely is noticeable with Raging Rush.

Senju helps the main hand hits with Jin only.

Rampager helps every single hit of Raging Rush, there is no offhand (besides Pole or Claymore, both of which I love for RR spam) and going from the Byakko's to the Rampager is a joy, man.

The high end on Byakko's is better, true, but it's so in and out, Rampager gives you steady ass damage with a crit based 3 hit WS... what more can you ask for? Jesus juice?

Re: /Drg, it's also high Str sub (/Thf and /Dnc low end, /Sam and /Nin middle, /Mnk too, /Drg high end, /Drk at the top. Oh, and jumps don't just give TP, they can double attack and crit on thier own.

Nothing like jumping something, expecting 300-400 Dmg, and getting 660 Dmg. :D

[RKenshin]

Funny to see this topic come up after yesterday. <.<

But, yeah, a lot of what I would contribute to this topic has already been said. A basic synopsis of what I'd say is:

- In comparing both in a fully geared/merited situation, either decision comes out rather close in the end as far as maximum damage potential goes. However one point I did not bring up in the previous thread, is that if you're including Bravura in the maximum potential category for 2h vs Dual Wield then there is no contest. Lhexh (a Bravura WAR in my LS) consistently parses significantly higher than his fully meritted/geared Ridill WAR/NIN has ever parsed, all the while as a Bravura WAR/NIN without GA or DA merits.

- Try to keep both options available. You truly should have at least GA, Axe, and Sword capped not too long after hitting 75 along with a fully leveled NIN sub as a bare minimum. SAM sub is also recommended for playing GA WAR at your fullest potential when the situation allows for it. Some people also like to sub DRG.

- Use common sense. Whether or not you prefer or have better results with GA or dual wielding varies, but if you're using GA make sure your sub is appropriate. A common misconception is that using GA is only worth it while subbing SAM, however this couldn't be any further from the truth. Subbing NIN is just as viable and still warrens the choice of GA as a very powerful option, however if you're trying to push out every bit of damage you can and can afford to not have Utsesumi, subbing SAM is the best choice IMO.

- Decide on a preference and merit/gear for it appropriately. Mixing and matching merits and gear so you can balance between both options is the least efficient choice IMO, although if you truly want to do this no one is stopping you.

Although, most of that is just stuff for when you're at/nearing 75. Still a bit of a way to go before you're there! But it's stuff to keep in mind.

All that aside, as far as my personal preference goes having a fully geared Axe/Rid WAR/NIN and a Perdu WAR/NINorSAM, I prefer the 2h setup both in the category of preference and the best results. It would appear that quite a few others here feel the same?

[Baha]

Don't be a dumbass like me and neglect your gaxe, but level all three imho. The third, obviously, being sword: from 50 to 60 the sword alternatives are pretty solid, and even after 60 they're adequate enough to slap (an up to date) one on to cap it. At 70 you get joyeuse for your dualwield setup, so shouldn't be a problem from there to 75.

Note :
I meritted sword to 4 before I leveleld, so my sword skill was pretty equal to my axe skill while levelling up.
Levelled in a static, went pretty fast, and it was before the 2h love, when Gaxe's were pretty lackluster. Still, I regret is, skilling up twohanders is a pita.

Pretty sure I'll always prefer the flurry of daggers/axes/swords/katana's of dualwield, but twohanders have kinda grown on me while levelling my DRK (71 atm). I'm not sure about WAR/SAM though, it does seem very fun (have pt'ed with solidly geared ls mates), but I very much doubt i'd come to prefer it. From my seigan experiences while skilling and on DRK, it seems a bit too temperamental to rely on in a random meripo where you're voking as well. In the nice kind of pt's where you tell everyone to sub /WAR, and just kill stuff before it has time to react, sure why not. :3

Random : If you get a perdu, is there any reason to hang onto Byakko's? Motherfuck WAR/THF btw, if I wanted to SATA I wouldn't have bothered my moogle to change jobs. Inventoryspace is serious business!

[Berdysh]

I prefer a good GAxe (Rune Chopper, Perdu) and /SAM, most every where. Merits, Salvage, Assaults, dynamis, some limbus zones. It's situational, and not effective 100% of the time like /NIN; but in the situations where it is effective, it's killer and I couldn't imagine running /NIN w/ dual-wield anymore.

Of course, there are situations where you're going to want to be /NIN (I usually do not run WAR to these) and I'd say Ridill dual-wield's going to outclass a two-hander with that subjob, unless you're using Bravura or Rune Chopper, more often than not.

[Skeetaru]

I'm a lvl 48 WAR, and I plan on taking it all the way to 75, but I don't know if I should stay with Great Axes, or switch out to dual axes. I've read that dual axes could outparse G. Axes, but I didn't know if that had changed since the two handed updates.

keep them both lvled, its not a huge issue to do that and you can really see what u like once u hit 75

[yrpaine]

There's different situations for everything. If you're trying to get exp fast and chain w/o downtime stay with /nin, you can still use greataxe if you want with /nin and get the added accuracy of 2h weapon. obviously ya, you'd do more dmg /sam or w/e with gaxe but you'll get exp faster with /nin (save /sam or w/e for ls events where you'll have the overwhelming support to keep up with your dmg output). If you can't afford the accuracy gear gaxe is probably better to exp with, if you can then try to keep both capped.

[Max™]

That is a misconception. /Nin does not automatically make you invincible, it doesn't prevent you from taking damage, using MP, or breaking chains.

/Nin offers predictable damage mitigation, which is also interruptible, and can get stripped by multi-hit WSes (Flurry/Rushing/Fang Rush, hi2u) instantly.

/Sam offers more random, but on average similar damage mitigation, which is instantly there, and cannot be interrupted (except in lolmire, but fuck those mobs, they explode if you sneeze funny in azouph, I'd War/Drg in mire). Plus, 1 Third Eye=any number of swings in a multi-hit WS, who here loves watching a mamool Rushing Stab, or birdy Pecking Flurry into a Third Eye? I know I do.

/Nin does not make every war into a standalone tanking god, yes, some people with the gear and support can tank Jesus as War/Nin, last I checked though, merit mobs aren't that hard to tank, and survive 15-30 seconds if they're lucky.

If you're spending the entire time getting faceraped as /Sam, you don't need /Nin, you need better merit partners if they can't swap hate with you.

Two /Sam melees can bounce tank VERY well, I've done it a long time, ever since Seigan came out, and I sub Sam for 6 hit build+Seigan, not Hasso (which only really comes into play in lolmire, or stuff like Kirin zerging) as that gets me raped.

[Dooom]

Random : If you get a perdu, is there any reason to hang onto Byakko's? Motherfuck WAR/THF btw, if I wanted to SATA I wouldn't have bothered my moogle to change jobs. Inventoryspace is serious business!

I have both Perdu and Byakko's, and <3 my Perdu to death. I'm yet to find a situation where I'd sooner use Byakko's over Perdu, though I'm normally bard for anything worth worrying about, so I can't give a full comparison. So far though, Byakko's has just been inv-1 for me

As for subs, war/nin is what I'll normally use, but sometimes I'll play with war/sam; it's good fun, but waaaaay too unreliable for my liking. Never been asked to go war/thf... ever.

[yrpaine]

That is a misconception. /Nin does not automatically make you invincible, it doesn't prevent you from taking damage, using MP, or breaking chains.

if you're going to be in seigan mode full time then /nin is better (and the OP said he was lvl 48 so no seigan). /nin is predictable, /sam can be 1 hit and you're skrewed for 30-60 seconds. if you want to be /sam to be different then fine, don't do it in my pty I don't like having my time wasted. /nin is better for exp. I never said it was invincible, it's just more constant over time you will take less damage /nin, and when you're chaining over 50+ you'll want to take less damage unless you like waiting for mp.

[Max™]

Guess I got scarred during my time with War/Nin before I put the sub away, but it never impressed me, with War eva and a limited haste build, it kind of sucks.

I remember getting Utsu:Ni and thinking "Wow, I bet I can go beat some stuff up." (in my -20 Eva hauby ftw)

Walk outside, poke a Lesser Colibri, pre-cast Ichi > Ni > Ichi > Flurry > Ni > Double+no misses, oh snap, I'm staring at recast timers while getting beat up by a EP Colibri, how embarrassing.

Utsu for War is best when you're only tanking limited periods, trying to recast Utsu under fire (besides Ni, and yes, when you're looking at a Ni recast after getting a fresh set WSed, you wanna get Ichi back up) as War is a matter of hoping the mob is fully debuffed, and you get a stun, or parry, or for some reason the mob misses (or hits you at like 20% cast and doesn't interrupt)...

THEN after all that, and actually getting Ichi up, POW! Multi-hit WS, with 10 seconds left on Ni.

Yay 225 Eva!


Regarding the new post there: /Nin does not prevent you from drinking MP, hell, being Nin/War doesn't prevent it. Mobs will land a multi-hit WS into a fresh set of shadows with both recasts down, and you will be forced to face tank til the other melees get hate back.

Endless chaining with two /Sam melees and a Nin/War, or two or three Sam and /Sams works great.

Your problem is running into morons who only see Hasso when the party can't handle it.

I sub samurai for 6 hits > 100 FIRST, Meditate is handy when a WS gets flashed/tickled, and Seigan has historically rocked for me. Hasso is wtfamazing, but it's also asking to kill your exp/hour.

Seigan will screw you over for 30 seconds max unless you totally screw up and pop Third Eye while face tanking without Seigan up, and generally you will get 3 or 4 attacks soaked per TE, more than enough time for the mob to die, or get turned again.

[yrpaine]

so you're comparing soloing as war/nin to being war/nin in merit parties? when you have haste and march on? gg?

try soloing war/sam and compare it to war/nin pls. /nin is more efficent.

[Max™]

so you're comparing soloing as war/nin to being war/nin in merit parties? when you have haste and march on? gg?

try soloing war/sam and compare it to war/nin pls. /nin is more efficent.

I actually find War/Sam solo to be easier than War/Nin, no interrupts+better damage output with gaxe.

Against mobs that aren't hitting you for many hundreds of points of damage per swing, War/Dnc mitigates damage better solo, so we should all be /Dnc in meripo right?

Why are you spending all of the time face tanking as War/Nin? Are you just THAT amazing that NOONE can get hate off of you, so you have to go from shadow set to shadow set constantly?

Merit with better melees, and they will bounce tank with you just as efficiently if you're /Sam as /Nin.

If your melees suck, you'll get hate more, spend more time recasting utsu, hurting your damage output.

Turn it around, and you can recast at your leisure, as the poor confused mob just spends the last moments of it's short life swapping targets before it dies.

[yrpaine]

lets save the whole /sam /nin thing for another post. The OP is lvl 48, he cannot use seigan yet, so there is no contest at which sub does more dmg mitigation. he's asking what's efficent at his level.

[Max™]

lets save the whole /sam /nin thing for another post. The OP is lvl 48, he cannot use seigan yet, so there is no contest at which sub does more dmg mitigation. he's asking what's efficent at his level.

Technically he was asking about weapons, and the general consensus is, keep them all available, use what you prefer.

[yrpaine]

lets save the whole /sam /nin thing for another post. The OP is lvl 48, he cannot use seigan yet, so there is no contest at which sub does more dmg mitigation. he's asking what's efficent at his level.

Technically he was asking about weapons, and the general consensus is, keep them all available, use what you prefer.

he was asking about weapons + sub... unless you can dual axes with /sam or /mnk and i don't know about this. at his level he should /nin and use whichever weapon he wants unless there's a pld in his pty, then he can play with subs.

[Ferien]

morons who only see Hasso when the party can't handle it

Pretty sure this is the sole reason /SAM is so frowned upon, as well as the reason so many SAMs sub NIN. Hell, I know Samurai that don't use Seigan, even when they're sitting there voking and trying to tank. Idiots shouldn't be used as the model for the population.

Personally, I prefer /SAM's damage mitigation to /NIN's at most merit camps. Flurry, Fang Rush, and Rushing/Vorpal all drop multiple shadows, but get fully absorbed by one TE, and can leave you with it still up. The key is to know how and when to use Third Eye, versus Utusemi's "always up" mindset.

[Max™]

Winnrar.

You put TE up when you know you're going to get swung at.

The reason you aren't impressed by Seigan+TE is probably from having it up every time the recast is up, but getting hate at 15 seconds into the TE effect, which gives 1 or 2 anticipates usually.

Fresh TE > 10-15 second old TE almost always, the one eye 29 second old TE's are rare, and should not be taken as the norm, nor really as a flaw in Seigan anymore than Vorpal/Rushing/Fang Rush/Flurry is a flaw in Utsusemi, since both can leave you naked getting chewed on with Berserk up.

[Sonomaa]

I dont understand why people claim war evasion is so bad, Ive always had really good evasion rates on mine, though I have both hauberk and haubergeon (and now ebody) but Ive never really taken every hit, evasion has saved my tail on my occasions. Perhaps it is the tail though, my ginormous amounts of dex and agi have to count for something shiny.

[Max™]

Mobs are like "zomg bewbs" when fighting mithras, and that reduces their accuracy by 15%, true story.

They see me, the cute little taru melee and are like "ok, that's adorable, so it must be evil, I must be certain to kill it with this one blow!"