2008 NFL Playoffs: Divisonal Round Picks *Playoffs!?*

[Plow]

The comment about Griffey made me think about Dominique Wilkins too. I'd honestly say if not for the achilles injury, there's a good chance Jordan's career might have been overshadowed by what he would've done instead.


Oh yeah, also, Nolan Ryan.

[Tyche]

Nolan Ryan is really an oddity. While he did throw like what, 8 no-hitters or some shit, he has more wild pitches and walks by a mile. He had no control, he just flung the ball with recklessness.

[Viq]

Bill Russell > Wilt Chamberlain

Wilt was dominant, but Russell changed the game entirely. The guy also ended up with more rings than fingers.

[archibaldcrane]

Russell got more rings on better teams, but jesus christ man -

In his rookie season, Chamberlain averaged 37.6 points and 27 rebounds, obliterating the previous regular-season records.

He averaged 27 boards per fucking game...as a rookie! Russell was a dominant defender, but he never even shot 50% in a season, and he towered over his defenders back then. Wilt had a 4,000 point season - the only other person with a 3000+ season was Jordan.

Aw hell, maybe it's a tossup. Wilt has most of the stats, Russell has most of the rings.

[Plow]

100 points.


One. Hundred. Points.


At some point while someone's scoring 100 points, you just put all 5 guys on him.


And then... they don't score 100 points. Unless of course they're Wilt Chamberlain.

[Akiyama]

On the note of Tiger Woods and comparing him to Jack, you have to remember that they have compensated for the change of technology. They've lengthened courses, made fairways smaller, made greens smaller/tougher, and all that so it's not like Tiger is playing on the same exact courses as Jack did back then. If that's the case, I'm sure he could go tee to green on a Par 4 with ease, lol. I'm also not taking away from Jack, but if they did both play at the same time, same prime... it'd be a scary, yet completely awesome thing to watch. Sadly, no time machines are ready. =[

[Deejay]

100 points.


One. Hundred. Points.


At some point while someone's scoring 100 points, you just put all 5 guys on him.


And then... they don't score 100 points. Unless of course they're Wilt Chamberlain.

Kobe scored 83 kind of quietly. Wilt was just a force that couldn't be stopped lol.

[Deejay]

You're telling me that Randy Moss isn't the most dominant WR to play the sport? To me, Randy Moss is the pure epitome of what it means to be a dominant player.

Jerry Rice's legacy as a dominant player is different than Moss'. He was famous for his amazing longevity, and has had one of the (if not THE) longest span of prime years. He was a playmaker and deserves to be considered the best WR to play the game. However, in my opinion, Randy is better.

Even if you wanted to compare stats, Randy is about to break every single one by the end of his career if he stays with the Pats.

You could give the edge to Jerry though, as he dominated the NFL during a time where defensive backs were allowed to do a lot more. But I could counter that argument with the fact that no corner back (short of maybe Champ Bailey) can keep up with Randy Moss 1 on 1. Had he played during Rice's era, he'd have seen a lot more 1 on 1 opportunities. That says a lot.

Not to mention the fact that with Randy, you know whats coming, yet you still cant stop it. Randy's been doing the same thing since he was a rookie. Tell me whats changed in his game since 2001 and now? Does he do anything different? No. Is his productivity the same? Hell fucking yes. In my opinion, that's what it means to be dominant and no one does a better job at dominating Defensive backs than Randy Moss.

(and for the record, i'm a WR at heart. Moss isn't my favorite, Chad Johnson is <3)

I like Randy Moss but give me a break.

Disclaimer: I give Moss a lot of credit. I even credited him for 99% of Daunte Culpepper's 2004 season. (While others were chanting MVP for Daunte during the season, I was chanting overrated because I knew that Moss was saving his ass for every bad throw he tossed.)


Randy is about to break every single one by the end of his career if he stays with the Pats? Woulda, coulda, shoulda. You should save your statement for when he actually does it. You gotta actually walk the walk in sports if you want to be called the greatest. This is why Ken Griffey Jr is not the greatest right now. IMO, he is better than Bonds and A-Rod combined but injuries prevented him from proving it.

Had he played during Rice's era, he'd have seen a lot more 1 on 1 opportunities. That says a lot. Had he played in Rice's era he would get laid out on his ass more and he wouldn't be getting away with pushing off on the defender to get free like he does today. Again, a woulda, coulda, shoulda argument. Let's wait for a time machine to be built so we can settle this for sure.

Not to mention the fact that with Randy, you know whats coming, yet you still cant stop it. As if everyone in the stadium and watching TV didn't know that the next play was going to Rice.

Don't let my argument try to make it sound like I'm taking anything away from Jerry Rice. I'm just saying, Randy Moss' 1 trick pony-ness is simply unrivaled by anyone in any sport.

There is no better scoring WR to play the game (other than Jerry Rice). The man is unguardable, and is the reason why the Pats and Vikings set the scoring records. He turned Tom Brady from being a Pro Bowl bubble type QB to having arguably one of the best QB seasons, ever. This in my opinion, is what makes Randy great. It's the fact that no WR has had such a monumental affect on an offense that Randy does. The jump in Tom Brady's output with/without Moss is disgusting.

And adversely, what has Daunte Cullpepper done in the NFL without Randy? He was booed out of Minnesota, thrown out by Miami, and is a spot-in backup in Oakland.

That says a lot. To me, when things are all said and done, comparing Moss/Rice will be like comparing Wilt/Jordan. One was a scoring machine, and the other had the all around dominant game.

Edit: And Career stats wise, the players aren't that much different. Rice scored 22 his 3rd year as a pro, but the closest he came to that was 17 once, and 15 two other times. Randy's TD total was 23 this year, 17 in two other seasons, and 15 in another. So, by looking at the stats now, one can assume that Randy is/was the better scorer. The only thing Rice has on him is yards. Through their first 10 seasons, Rice averaged 1300, while moss is at 1220, including his 2 shit seasons in Oakland.

What i'm trying to say is, these guys aren't that much apart stats wise. Moss is the better scorer while Rice was the better posession receiver.

[Plow]

You're telling me that Randy Moss isn't the most dominant WR to play the sport? To me, Randy Moss is the pure epitome of what it means to be a dominant player.

Jerry Rice's legacy as a dominant player is different than Moss'. He was famous for his amazing longevity, and has had one of the (if not THE) longest span of prime years. He was a playmaker and deserves to be considered the best WR to play the game. However, in my opinion, Randy is better.

Even if you wanted to compare stats, Randy is about to break every single one by the end of his career if he stays with the Pats.

You could give the edge to Jerry though, as he dominated the NFL during a time where defensive backs were allowed to do a lot more. But I could counter that argument with the fact that no corner back (short of maybe Champ Bailey) can keep up with Randy Moss 1 on 1. Had he played during Rice's era, he'd have seen a lot more 1 on 1 opportunities. That says a lot.

Not to mention the fact that with Randy, you know whats coming, yet you still cant stop it. Randy's been doing the same thing since he was a rookie. Tell me whats changed in his game since 2001 and now? Does he do anything different? No. Is his productivity the same? Hell fucking yes. In my opinion, that's what it means to be dominant and no one does a better job at dominating Defensive backs than Randy Moss.

(and for the record, i'm a WR at heart. Moss isn't my favorite, Chad Johnson is <3)

I like Randy Moss but give me a break.

Disclaimer: I give Moss a lot of credit. I even credited him for 99% of Daunte Culpepper's 2004 season. (While others were chanting MVP for Daunte during the season, I was chanting overrated because I knew that Moss was saving his ass for every bad throw he tossed.)


Randy is about to break every single one by the end of his career if he stays with the Pats? Woulda, coulda, shoulda. You should save your statement for when he actually does it. You gotta actually walk the walk in sports if you want to be called the greatest. This is why Ken Griffey Jr is not the greatest right now. IMO, he is better than Bonds and A-Rod combined but injuries prevented him from proving it.

Had he played during Rice's era, he'd have seen a lot more 1 on 1 opportunities. That says a lot. Had he played in Rice's era he would get laid out on his ass more and he wouldn't be getting away with pushing off on the defender to get free like he does today. Again, a woulda, coulda, shoulda argument. Let's wait for a time machine to be built so we can settle this for sure.

Not to mention the fact that with Randy, you know whats coming, yet you still cant stop it. As if everyone in the stadium and watching TV didn't know that the next play was going to Rice.

Don't let my argument try to make it sound like I'm taking anything away from Jerry Rice. I'm just saying, Randy Moss' 1 trick pony-ness is simply unrivaled by anyone in any sport.

There is no better scoring WR to play the game (other than Jerry Rice). The man is unguardable, and is the reason why the Pats and Vikings set the scoring records. He turned Tom Brady from being a Pro Bowl bubble type QB to having arguably one of the best QB seasons, ever. This in my opinion, is what makes Randy great. It's the fact that no WR has had such a monumental affect on an offense that Randy does. The jump in Tom Brady's output with/without Moss is disgusting.

And adversely, what has Daunte Cullpepper done in the NFL without Randy? He was booed out of Minnesota, thrown out by Miami, and is a spot-in backup in Oakland.

That says a lot. To me, when things are all said and done, comparing Moss/Rice will be like comparing Wilt/Jordan. One was a scoring machine, and the other had the all around dominant game.

Edit: And Career stats wise, the players aren't that much different. Rice scored 22 his 3rd year as a pro, but the closest he came to that was 17 once, and 15 two other times. Randy's TD total was 23 this year, 17 in two other seasons, and 15 in another. So, by looking at the stats now, one can assume that Randy is/was the better scorer. The only thing Rice has on him is yards. Through their first 10 seasons, Rice averaged 1300, while moss is at 1220, including his 2 shit seasons in Oakland.

What i'm trying to say is, these guys aren't that much apart stats wise. Moss is the better scorer while Rice was the better posession receiver.

You don't understand the difference in defense rules. Rice did what he did with people all over him, pushing him, holding him the whole way down the field, getting hit *hard* right off the line.

He was also every bit as much of a deep threat as Moss, calling Jerry Rice a "possession" receiver is just plain silly. Just because he's every bit as likely to catch one 3 yards out and take it in for a touchdown as he is to run past the entire defense and catch it 50+ yards downfield, doesn't mean he's inferior *at all.* He was probably actually faster than moss, just not as tall.



Just to give you an idea how silly that last post you made really was: Wilt Chamberlain is the only player ever to average over 50 points a game for an entire NBA season. He has also led the league in rebounds, blocks, and assists. The only argument anyone can make against him whatsoever as the best player ever in any sport is that he didn't win every championship every year. Cuz he did everything else. (including banging 20,000 women! rofl)



Also, Rich Gannon went from a guy that made a couple Pro Bowls near the end of his career to league mvp when he got Rice.

[Tyche]

The man is unguardable, and is the reason why the Pats and Vikings set the scoring records. He turned Tom Brady from being a Pro Bowl bubble type QB to having arguably one of the best QB seasons, ever. This in my opinion, is what makes Randy great.

For being ungaurdable, he sure hasn't had any amazing yardage production in like 6 of the last 7 games. He's scoring, but that's because Brady is looking specifically for him during the last quarter of the season. Tom Brady turned from being one of the greatest QBs with shit receivers to one of the greatest QBs with great receivers. They had an amazing offense with shit WRs, you think Moss alone is responsible for their offense production this year? You are fucking nuts. If all they had was moss, they wouldn't be getting out of a lot of third downs. The reason he is having the the best season isn't because of moss, it's because of some of the best o-line play he's had and having the best WRs he's ever had. His WRs from the past wouldn't make the starting role this year.

Edit: Where's this weeks thread!?!

[Akiyama]

Waiting on someone to make it? I'm too lazy.

[Plow]

someone make it, quick, I have nothing witty for a title!

[Ishido]

I'm surprised no one brought up the point that Rice only played 12 games when he set the record of 22 TD catches, and Moss broke the record in the 15th(?) game of the season. That surely counts for something.

[octopus]

I'm surprised no one brought up the point that Rice only played 12 games when he set the record of 22 TD catches, and Moss broke the record in the 15th(?) game of the season. That surely counts for something.

Page 13, Plow's post.

Anyway, San Diego's D is hanging tough so far... I wish San Diego's offense isn't so injured...

[Heian]

18 AND 0 THATS RIGHT BABY 18 AND 0

[Deejay]

He was also every bit as much of a deep threat as Moss, calling Jerry Rice a "possession" receiver is just plain silly. Just because he's every bit as likely to catch one 3 yards out and take it in for a touchdown as he is to run past the entire defense and catch it 50+ yards downfield, doesn't mean he's inferior *at all.* He was probably actually faster than moss, just not as tall.

Moss has slow acceleration, but can cover ground when he gains speed. Theres no question Randy Moss is faster than Jerry Rice, the dude ran like a 4.7 coming out of college. Jerry Rice was considered slow by WR standards, and the reason why players like Larry Fitzgerald(4.6) are still high draft picks. Randy Moss runs a fucking 4.25 for crying out loud. That's faster than like 90% of the players in the league.

Just to give you an idea how silly that last post you made really was: Wilt Chamberlain is the only player ever to average over 50 points a game for an entire NBA season. He has also led the league in rebounds, blocks, and assists. The only argument anyone can make against him whatsoever as the best player ever in any sport is that he didn't win every championship every year. Cuz he did everything else. (including banging 20,000 women! rofl)

Wilt Chamberlain is known for his scoring. I'm saying that Randy Moss is known for his big receptions in the endzone. Jerry Rice, however, was a more all around player and did everything great, a la MJ. That's the only comparison I was trying to make. When Randy's career is over, you'll see how much of a better scorer Moss was than Rice, as he's already proven that he can score more TD's than Rice, and he'll continue doing it over the next few years in NE.

[Deejay]

The man is unguardable, and is the reason why the Pats and Vikings set the scoring records. He turned Tom Brady from being a Pro Bowl bubble type QB to having arguably one of the best QB seasons, ever. This in my opinion, is what makes Randy great.

For being ungaurdable, he sure hasn't had any amazing yardage production in like 6 of the last 7 games. He's scoring, but that's because Brady is looking specifically for him during the last quarter of the season. Tom Brady turned from being one of the greatest QBs with shit receivers to one of the greatest QBs with great receivers. They had an amazing offense with shit WRs, you think Moss alone is responsible for their offense production this year? You are fucking nuts. If all they had was moss, they wouldn't be getting out of a lot of third downs. The reason he is having the the best season isn't because of moss, it's because of some of the best o-line play he's had and having the best WRs he's ever had. His WRs from the past wouldn't make the starting role this year.

Do you think it takes some obscene about of talent to do what Wes Welker does in that offense? Are you really that dense to think Jabbar Gaffney can't catch 4 yard in routes? Why do you think the Patriots keep going over the middle? Those are gimme's for the Patriots thanks to number 81.

[Plow]

Jerry Rice was considered slow by WR standards,

If you're like 15 and only saw him play when he was 40, sure.

Wilt Chamberlain is known for his scoring. I'm saying that Randy Moss is known for his big receptions in the endzone. Jerry Rice, however, was a more all around player and did everything great, a la MJ. That's the only comparison I was trying to make. When Randy's career is over, you'll see how much of a better scorer Moss was than Rice, as he's already proven that he can score more TD's than Rice, and he'll continue doing it over the next few years in NE.

Wilt Chamberlain is known for absolutely dominating everything in his path, period. He was MORE of an all around player than Jordan ever was. Did you ever see Jordan average near 30 of anything other than points for a season? Did Jordan ever even average a double/double period?


How exactly does one season of breaking his record by 1 TD in 4 more games prove he "can score more TD's than Rice?"

Last I checked he had about 65 TD to go to pass Rice in *ONE* single stat.


Get off his nuts, who the best really is is decided in the playoffs, where he has done absolutely jack shit.

[Tyche]

He was also every bit as much of a deep threat as Moss, calling Jerry Rice a "possession" receiver is just plain silly. Just because he's every bit as likely to catch one 3 yards out and take it in for a touchdown as he is to run past the entire defense and catch it 50+ yards downfield, doesn't mean he's inferior *at all.* He was probably actually faster than moss, just not as tall.

Moss has slow acceleration, but can cover ground when he gains speed. Theres no question Randy Moss is faster than Jerry Rice, the dude ran like a 4.7 coming out of college. Jerry Rice was considered slow by WR standards, and the reason why players like Larry Fitzgerald(4.6) are still high draft picks. Randy Moss runs a fucking 4.25 for crying out loud. That's faster than like 90% of the players in the league.

Just to give you an idea how silly that last post you made really was: Wilt Chamberlain is the only player ever to average over 50 points a game for an entire NBA season. He has also led the league in rebounds, blocks, and assists. The only argument anyone can make against him whatsoever as the best player ever in any sport is that he didn't win every championship every year. Cuz he did everything else. (including banging 20,000 women! rofl)

Wilt Chamberlain is known for his scoring. I'm saying that Randy Moss is known for his big receptions in the endzone. Jerry Rice, however, was a more all around player and did everything great, a la MJ. That's the only comparison I was trying to make. When Randy's career is over, you'll see how much of a better scorer Moss was than Rice, as he's already proven that he can score more TD's than Rice, and he'll continue doing it over the next few years in NE.

When did he score more TDs than rice, please don't tell me you think that him scoring 23 was anything spectacular. It took him four more games, with one of the 3 best QBs the league has ever seen, in an offense that throws the ball 40-50 times a game. Please...

Also lol @ thinking moss will remain in NE for years to come.

As I said, for someone who is "THE REASON" for 1100+ points in 2 season, he sure has a hard time getting any of his teams to the superbowl. Welcome to the superbowl randy, now brush off your chest from being dragged there by Brady.

[Demosthenes11]

I don't see a reason why he wouldn't.

He has proven he isn't motivated by money and he is happy just winning - even when he isn't getting the ball.

Unless the pats just start sucking, I really don't see why he would be happier anywhere else.

PS: 18-0 anyone? Told you so