Animator +1?

[Jkun]

Let's say that the Animator +1 really does increase the speed of cure casting time. Assuming that's true I would expect that it would speed up the casting time of other spells, too. It doesn't make sense to me that they would speed up only cures and nothing else, considering the versatility of the automaton.

So, if other spells are sped up as well, then you could try it with the BLM head and time nukes. Or, if that would put you in danger you could try plain old Stormwaker.

Yes, I realize that if the nuking test doesn't show any differences that it will not prove anything about cure recasts. But if it does show a difference then we will have learned something.

Done!

http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest3.jpg

26 averaged a lot more with Animator+1 than without. But I don't think they changed it. 1 second less on recast is just too retarded, though I wouldn't put it past SE in most cases. At least we can all sleep better at night now, ne?

[Sechs]

I'm still a bit reluctant to believe the Cure recast thing. Don't get me wrong, I apreciate all your work but it's just that Cures already seem to get a bit random from time to time, so I dunno, I would like further tests to be carried.
As for what the description says, I wasn't expecting anything more than some hidden +something bonus. Items descriptions are very often misleading.
Think about Turbo Animator, that description too would lead you to think about faster maneuvers (and indeed people were claiming 8 secs recast the first day Turbo Animator came out. Eeeh... the miracles of placebo effect )

One thing I would like to ask: have you noticed differences using different heads? Let me explain further: is the +HP/MP bonus applied on the automaton only according to the frame selected, or according to a combination of frame/head? Because if it's the second, we could try all sort of different setups, to see for example what changes between white & black head.

Last thing I would like to ask: have you checked if automatons also get some +attribute bonus? Like +int for Stormwaker, or +something for Valoredge etc?


Thanks for your time

[Jkun]

I'm still a bit reluctant to believe the Cure recast thing. Don't get me wrong, I apreciate all your work but it's just that Cures already seem to get a bit random from time to time, so I dunno, I would like further tests to be carried.

I have tried more tests and they resulted in the same results. The cures are faster for some reason, but I'm not sure if it's because A) I'm taking more damage faster than other times, or B) I'm getting lucky with evasion hits. It's really too confusing to claim that it's faster at the moment.

One thing I would like to ask: have you noticed differences using different heads? Let me explain further: is the +HP/MP bonus applied on the automaton only according to the frame selected, or according to a combination of frame/head? Because if it's the second, we could try all sort of different setups, to see for example what changes between white & black head.

Black and White heads on Mage body, as I stated, still give the same +HP/MP bonuses as when using the default Stormwaker head. It seems +HP/MP bonuses are applied to each specific frame, not head. (For example, Valor/Waker combo still resulted in full Stormwaker combo bonuses).

Last thing I would like to ask: have you checked if automatons also get some +attribute bonus? Like +int for Stormwaker, or +something for Valoredge etc?

No they do not. Only the master gets +4 DEX. However, the Automaton Equipment menu is still bugged/glitched from day 1, in that equipping certain attachments in certain spots give very random +attribute stats, that disappears upon activation.

imo, SE, as usual, weren't thinking nor caring too much about what Animator+1 did. It's not gamebreaking, it's not much of an improvment, but at the very least it's a small bonus, and - as we all know - PUP needs all the "small bonuses" it can get it's hands on.

[azagarth]

i plan to go for it regardless. 2 dex is nice, the pimp factor is nice, and in the off chance that it does reduce recasts by even 1 sec thats good enough for me. I see people get these rings and stuff that are really no different/better than whats out already. Most the Ein items are such small upgrades.

BTW im and EIn noob jkun..... how long does it take to get 15k?

[Sechs]

imo, SE, as usual, weren't thinking nor caring too much about what Animator+1 did. It's not gamebreaking, it's not much of an improvment, but at the very least it's a small bonus, and - as we all know - PUP needs all the "small bonuses" it can get it's hands on.

Well, honestly I'm sure we all weren't expecting anymore than that, were we? Someone even hypothized about only having dex+4 (which in all honesty seemed likely), so seeing the actual real bonus, I'm more than happy about it
Still... it's not like something you can get fast.

Sometimes I laugh when people ask suggestions for a certain slot, and they get replies of the kind: "Omg you're such a noob that item sux, go get immedeately item XXX" where XXX is a 15k Ampoules item.
Yeah sure, I'll just snap my fingers and there! Magic! 15.000 ampoules will appear! xD
I still need to stat Einherjar seriously, too busy completing Usukane. When I'll be done with all 5 pieces I'll start focus on Einherjar I guess. (and Nyzul Isle maybe, Kentokuten look really sexy!)

BTW im and EIn noob jkun..... how long does it take to get 15k?

I guess it depends on how good your Ein LS is, and how often you do it. It has the same Dynamis cooldowns, so basically you'll be doing Ein max twice per week (I wish I could find a LS doing Ein twice per week actually Most LS still care little for Einherjar imho)
There are 3 "wings" of Einherjar plus a last chamber (Odin). Each wing has 3 chambers, 'cept the last one (only one). To access one wing, you need to have completed all the rooms (you get a temp key item) of the previous wing. So to access rooms of wing 2 you need to have the 3 key items of wing 1, to access the rooms of wing 3 you need to have the key items of wing 2 etc. Your 9 key items get expended when you access Odin's Chamber.
Wing 1 victories award you 500 Ampoules
Wing 2 victories award you 750 Ampoules and Wing 3 victories award you 1000 Ampoules, if I got it right.
Most likely if you're not lucky enough to find a good LS, u'll find yourself spamming first wing rooms, winning once every now and then.

So yeah, it doesn't take an insane amount of time to gather 15k, but it's not quick either. Takes dedication. I guess around 4-5 months at least? If you go twice a week.

[Jkun]

BTW im and EIn noob jkun..... how long does it take to get 15k?

I guess it depends on how good your Ein LS is, and how often you do it. It has the same Dynamis cooldowns, so basically you'll be doing Ein max twice per week (I wish I I guess around 4-5 months at least? If you go twice a week.

Not at all lol. You seem to forget upon completing all 9 Chambers you get "Mark of the Einherjar" permanent key item, most people think you get this after completing Odin. But you get it once you have all 9 feathers in your key items. This allows you to do any chamber you like. In a little under 2 months I went from 0/15000 to 15000 by doing 3 Wing 1s, a few more Wing 2s for other members to catch up, and about 7 or 8 Wing 3s, before completing the 15000 after doing Odin. It really isn't that hard if your LS can win every time, but it takes practice (We failed like 4 Wing 3 before we decided to try a different approach) and for my part, dedication (3am Einherjar ftl).

[Jkun]

Sometimes I laugh when people ask suggestions for a certain slot, and they get replies of the kind: "Omg you're such a noob that item sux, go get immediately item XXX" where XXX is a 15k Ampoules item.

It's so much easier to get 15k Ampoules than certain 35 pieces in Salvage, trust me. Because it's always a guaranteed drop. D:

[Sechs]

This allows you to do any chamber you like.

The chamber "you" like isn't necessarily the one the LS leader "likes".
Most LS I've seen active in the last months are still stuck spamming wing 1 with some random wing 2 runs.
They all do only one run per week, and each time they schedule a wing 2 run there's always a bunch of people coming up saying "omg I can't come I don't have the 3 feathers from 1st wing" and in the end what happens?
They do another wing 1 run.
They've been doing things like that, in a very frustrating way for both older members and those who try to organize things, for a lot of time =/

And I dunno about Fairy, but on Asura I know only one LS doing runs in EU time (once per week) and open to everybody (i.e. not restricted to members of certain LSs).
As I mentioned before, they're still stuck on wing 1 with some random wing 2 runs after like... 6 months? Of 1-per-week runs. Which often get canceled because of HNMs (and we all know how these things work, when you have a Day 4+ Fafnir waiting for you in Dragon's Aery you can't do anything else)

As for Salvage... lvl 35 drops are bitches, but you can do Salvage every day if you want, and I find it lots of <fun>. And you can go in with like 6-8 members, while for Einherjar it's always a stress finding members or waiting for them to arrive at Navuko Chambers (and when even just 2 people are late, they're gonna waste the time of everybody else who got there in time). Einherjar reminds me more or Dynamis' confusion and chaos, rather than the competition, under-contro, planned strategy and fun I find in Salvage.
But... I have to say Einherjar at least takes only 30 mins of your time, compared to Salvage which steals 2 of your hours.
Dunno, guess it depends on personal tastes D:

I just hope some new organized EU-friendly Ein LS will appear on my server sooner or later

[Jkun]

This allows you to do any chamber you like.

The chamber "you" like isn't necessarily the one the LS leader "likes".
Most LS I've seen active in the last months are still stuck spamming wing 1 with some random wing 2 runs.
They all do only one run per week, and each time they schedule a wing 2 run there's always a bunch of people coming up saying "omg I can't come I don't have the 3 feathers from 1st wing" and in the end what happens?
They do another wing 1 run.
They've been doing things like that, in a very frustrating way for both older members and those who try to organize things, for a lot of time =/

And I dunno about Fairy, but on Asura I know only one LS doing runs in EU time (once per week) and open to everybody (i.e. not restricted to members of certain LSs).
As I mentioned before, they're still stuck on wing 1 with some random wing 2 runs after like... 6 months? Of 1-per-week runs. Which often get canceled because of HNMs (and we all know how these things work, when you have a Day 4+ Fafnir waiting for you in Dragon's Aery you can't do anything else)

As for Salvage... lvl 35 drops are bitches, but you can do Salvage every day if you want, and I find it lots of <fun>. And you can go in with like 6-8 members, while for Einherjar it's always a stress finding members or waiting for them to arrive at Navuko Chambers (and when even just 2 people are late, they're gonna waste the time of everybody else who got there in time). Einherjar reminds me more or Dynamis' confusion and chaos, rather than the competition, under-contro, planned strategy and fun I find in Salvage.
But... I have to say Einherjar at least takes only 30 mins of your time, compared to Salvage which steals 2 of your hours.
Dunno, guess it depends on personal tastes D:

I just hope some new organized EU-friendly Ein LS will appear on my server sooner or later

Sorry, I didn't realize your situation. Plus, my lingo for "your" actually meant "the LS". For us, once we found out a method of 30 people TP zerging Wing 3 with Dynamis-like assists, we spammed Wing 3 since it gave the highest amount of points. It was an LS decision, not my own one.

True, you can do Salvage every day, depending on Assault points. I do not have an Assault static even though I am FL Rank. I just pick up RvB matches and do those often. I also find it hard because I have a Nyzul Isle static that does 3 runs weekly, working towards that PUP Nyzul Weapon, which also limits my tags for Assault and ultimately, Salvage.

As you said, it depends on personal taste. I totally agree with that. For me and my LS, Ein is very organised and managed very well, mainly because we treat it like a mini Dynamis. But, it all boils down to luck, just like everything in this game, Salvage included. One week it's Soulflayers and Flan waves which are countered with poison pots and mainly BLM burns, the next is easy peasy bats and marids that area easily chopped up. You just need to have a decent proportion sized LS with players who have very fast reactions to any situation, since you can't tell what mobs are coming at you next. That's my two cents if they help at all. D:

In any case, this isn't a Salvage > Einherjar discussion, so I'll stop, lol.

[Jkun]

Getting back on track, I did some tests during dinner again. Finding free time is a pain! ;/

Ayway, see what you can make of these. This time I took the liberty of including the whole chat log, just so you can see evasion/damage/recast times. They were both done when using Animator+1. I just don't get it, maybe it's glitched? If Cure Recast is halved from Turbo Animator then that makes Animator+1 a lot nicer than expected. This happens on every mob I fight, wheras Turbo Animator takes from 45-55 secs...

http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest4.jpg

http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest5.jpg

I just don't get it, maybe it's glitched? If Cure Recast is halved from Turbo Animator then that makes Animator+1 a lot nicer than expected. But notice on the second screenshot, he uses Cure V EXACTLY 24 secs after Blind too! This happens on every mob I fight, wheras Turbo Animator takes from 45-55 secs between Enfeeble and Cure spell...

{Help me out!}? D:

[pchan]

I dunno, what's your MaxHP ? I have like 1200 on pup/thf when farming those, and I'm pretty sure I get cures at 900 HP.

[Jkun]

About 1300ish. Elvaan and HP merits. I use Damage Gauge if that helps, but rarely anything more than 1 Light. I don't understand how losing only 130ish HP from 1300 makes Cure V activate... It's a bit of a waste of MP.

Two things I'd love but will never happen:

- BLM head to open with a small nuke then work it's way up to a bigger ones, only using the element the mob is weak to with Scanner on (Scanner still OCASSIONALY scans resistances, and I've had E100 fuck up so many times because he couldn't find any weakness and refused to cast. Good examples are Eyes and Ultima. When Magic Shield is up, the Automaton refuses to cast anything as it won't land. (ie: No magical weakness.))

- Cures dependant on HP. Why waste a Cure V at almost full HP? beats me.

I could spend all day knit-picking faults in PUP's role as a whole but I'll leave that until another time. However I think I've exhausted a lot of possibilities and theories behind this piece of equipment, any Turbo Animator tests from other people would be appreciated in case I'm doing something wrong, haha.

[azagarth]

more test! if we can get that in pty we would be amazing, every 24 sec c5 on some1 ;D

[Jkun]

more test! if we can get that in pty we would be amazing, every 24 sec c5 on some1 ;D

Not exactly. Automatons will cast based on priority of the Master > Automaton > Anyone else. Given though I use stuff like Cobras for Enmity- and I doubt the Automaton will use so many spells it'll get hate, then it's pretty understandable most will think that way.

However there have been situations where someone in a party was at 100 HP and it casted Regen III ...or Blind.

Speaking of which, it -never- does Regen III on me when soloing anymore...did they remove it? I've tried at every % of HP (75, 50, 20) and I never get Regen III anymore, anyone?

[Jkun]

Okay, here it is.

I didn't know what was up with the first few screenshots (Test #1 and Test #2) I took, but looking over my logs and other SSs, now I do.

I started testing with Animator+1 on the Whitegate/Bhaflau postern zoneline. My main target was, of course, Attercops. After they all died, I started hitting (lol) some Colibri.

Now, Colibri don't hit as hard or fast as Attercops. Plus their accuracy is pretty terrible to a 75 PUP with capped evasion. Though I still included screenies of what results I got. If things aren't hitting you, you aren't losing HP, therefore you won't get cured. That's why those Turbo Animator results were so long, yet the Cure IV results are the same recast time.

This means, I had to go out and test Turbo Animator again on nothing but Attercops, to justify yesterday's results from Animator+1.

http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest7.jpg

http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest6.jpg

Okay, so there they are. It's not halved, but it's still 2-3 second slower than Animator+1. Why's this? After looking over my EQ screens of the past tests (I always take initial EQ screens before testing), I notice a light blue attachment on E100. I -never- use Ice on Soulsoother head, which means we finally found the culprit.

So in true Phoenix Wright style, the reason Cure V recast seemed faster with the old Animator+1 tests, all boils down to this piece of decisive evidence:



























http://www.elite.uk.com/james/ffxima...matortest8.jpg

Booster was equipped on the first tests but not the second ones. By putting it on with Turbo Animator and hitting 2 Attercops at a time to lose more HP than 1 mob (ie: a single Colibri), Cure V recast was the same as Animator+1 at 24-23 seconds. This included Blind -> Cure or Blind -> Dia II.

This is proven with the BLM head tests also, if you recall single target nukes aswell as Drain and Absorb-INT were at 26-27sec on recast.

MYTH BUSTED.

Recast times aren't touched or improved with Animator+1. But my recent question still remains: Where's my Regen III gone? D: He's not used it in months!

[Sechs]

Honestly I've always had troubles in making Automaton cast Regen III when not in a party, dunno why, there are full rivers of discussions throughout forums. It has always been a problem for many players tho.

The two new heads are the clear icon of how bad programmed routines can ruin and limit the potential of a job, not because of "balancement" issues, just because of lack of interest (could we talk about "professionality" maybe?)

[Jkun]

Honestly I've always had troubles in making Automaton cast Regen III when not in a party, dunno why, there are full rivers of discussions throughout forums. It has always been a problem for many players tho.

The two new heads are the clear icon of how bad programmed routines can ruin and limit the potential of a job, not because of "balancement" issues, just because of lack of interest (could we talk about "professionality" maybe?)

BLM head is too dumb to replace a BLM, WHM head is too slow (and dumb) to replace a WHM. If it won't cast certain spells outside of a party, then why bother soloing? It annoys me to no end that they refuse to (or are taking their sweet time to) change or improve it. You can bet now DNC and SCH are in the picture, PUP is going to be long forgotten as a bad mistake by taking a potentially incredible job, and fucking it up.

As for Animator+1, I can't think of anything else it could do. I think HP/MP bonuses and DEX+4 are all we're going to get from it. Knowing SE, and half the useless gear they release every version update, I stand by this statement. Glad I could have helped clear some myths up.

[tessy cat]

Honestly I've always had troubles in making Automaton cast Regen III when not in a party, dunno why, there are full rivers of discussions throughout forums. It has always been a problem for many players tho.

iirc, automatons will only use regen if your current mob target is DC (or EM, forget which off the top of my head) or higher. I never see it in campaign and I think it's because of the mobs' relative low levels at 75. Also explains why you it's more prevalent in parties; generally your target mob is a higher level in a party than if you're solo.

[Jkun]

Honestly I've always had troubles in making Automaton cast Regen III when not in a party, dunno why, there are full rivers of discussions throughout forums. It has always been a problem for many players tho.

iirc, automatons will only use regen if your current mob target is DC (or EM, forget which off the top of my head) or higher. I never see it in campaign and I think it's because of the mobs' relative low levels at 75. Also explains why you it's more prevalent in parties; generally your target mob is a higher level in a party than if you're solo.

That explains it, I guess. Still, the reason as to why anyone would invite a Soulsoother over an actual WHM is beyond me, especially with it's current AI, slow recast timers, and incredibly small single-target spell list. On the ocassions I take PUP to exp (mainly for testing new things out, never to actually merit or exp) I always use Sharpshot ;/

[Jones]

Honestly I've always had troubles in making Automaton cast Regen III when not in a party, dunno why, there are full rivers of discussions throughout forums. It has always been a problem for many players tho.

iirc, automatons will only use regen if your current mob target is DC (or EM, forget which off the top of my head) or higher. I never see it in campaign and I think it's because of the mobs' relative low levels at 75. Also explains why you it's more prevalent in parties; generally your target mob is a higher level in a party than if you're solo.

In my experience, high end DC and above will warrant a Regen Cast. (I think the threshold is the mobs that give 72 base exp). It also works on NMs, but your Automation apparently knows the true level of the NM. It will cast Regen on Duke Haborym (lvl 76), but not on Leaping Lizzy.