Thoughts on upcoming rolls

[Spider-Dan]

Let me preface this with the standard disclaimer of COR is still the least popular job in the game etc., so make any claims of "this will break the game wide open!" in moderation, please.

Thinking about the options for the upcoming Dancer's Roll and Scholar's Roll, there are a few possibilities that come to mind.

Scholar's Roll
+Conserve MP- This would work in essentially the same manner as Fighter's Roll; a simple increase to the proc rate of Conserve MP. I don't know how valuable the trait actually is, though; given that the average bonus to 2A rate from Fighter's is approximately +9%/+14% (without/with WAR), would a similar proc rate on Conserve MP be worth the paper it were printed on (relative to other available rolls)? I'm sure someone can break it down mathematically.

+Fast Cast- This would provide another useful mage buff for COR, while helping to fill in (on the casting side) for the lack of Haste rolls available. Again, since I'm no mage, I'm unsure how much would be "overpowered," but it seems that a rough average of Fast Cast+10/15 (without/with SCH) wouldn't be out of place.

Regen- Given the existing guideline from Squenix that an average roll is generally to be more powerful than one of the equivalent song, and XI is to be more powerful than a pair of said song, I think it'd be pretty fair to put base regen values at 4x that of Evoker's (sans SMN), with the job bonus being +2 to net values. That'd result in an average of 11.1HP/tick with SCH and 9.2HP/tick without.

Dancer's Roll
Regen- See above for details. It seems fairly likely that COR will get Regen from one of these rolls, but it could easily be either one.

Haste- To be honest, I'd rather have Regen, especially if Scholar's Roll is +Fast Cast. Fighter's is generally a good enough substitute for haste, and even if it's not, I'd rather see them buff Fighter's instead. But as far as the numbers go, something like the old ACC values for Hunter's (with RNG) should work: +12.75 average, +23 on XI. Add +3 with DNC in party and that should turn out fairly well.

Regain- Here is the elephant in the room. This roll would be useful for many reasons (not the least of which would be enabling DNC to do something in fights where it's impractical to melee for all their TP), but the immediate and overpowering sentiment is "broken beyond belief". However, given the existing average +Store TP of Samurai Roll (32.8 with SAM/23.6 without), I think duplicating Evoker's returns in TP/tick is reasonable. (For comparison's sake, each 1TP/tick results in an extra 20TP/min.)

[Starr]

SCH -MP cost as a %

Supposed to be coming January aren't they?

[nekura]

First thought: Please let them be priced versus today's economy and not the one that existed when the job was first released. If the rolls are 110K+ I may shoot someone. >_>

I think the main problem with a +Conserve MP roll is that the trait itself is like an "Oh, that's nice" thing when it procs; then again, looking at the usefulness (not) of some of the other rolls we've been given, I wouldn't be surprised if we get this. What about a roll that would specifically enhance the damage of DoT spells, since the -helix line is supposed to be one of Scholar's big draws? While I wouldn't full-time it in an EXP party like I do Evoker's, it would be nice to throw up real quick in a big fight. Starr's -% MP cost idea sounds pretty good too.

As for Dancer, I'd love to see a Regain roll. Again, I'm not sure how useful it'd be in an EXP party, but if you have some jobs like RNG off to the side Meditating TP for a weapon skill, this would speed the process aup.

And yes, we are supposed to be getting the rolls in the update this month. I wonder when they'll announce the details...

[Tempyst]

A roll that reduces the recast on JAs by a certain % would be awesome.

[thalandor]

Cor will not get a Haste roll, period.

It will break the game to have another form of haste. almost all jobs will have close to 90% or so delay reduction.

Hasso: -10
gear Haste : -25
spell : -15
marchx2 : -20
posible roll : 10-20 ( ?)

[Ferien]

Cor will not get a Haste roll, period.

It will break the game to have another form of haste. almost all jobs will have close to 90% or so delay reduction.

Hasso: -10
gear Haste : -25
spell : -15
marchx2 : -20
posible roll : 10-20 ( ?)

Unless they make the COR roll count as Magic Haste, which would near certainly be the case.

[Dakk]

which then would put brd out of a job more or less.
Only thing brd has on cor imo is a haste buff.
So I hope cor never gets a haste roll.

[Koyangi]

Elegy.

[Zoot]

And the ability to pull in a merit party without a terrible delay, and sleep more reliably, plus the fact that rolls and songs work marvelously together.

There's also Haste Samba on that list! Of course that's just weapon delay, but the roll could do the same thing.

But I doubt that, because it'd be a roll playing off of another "buff." That's not really the nature of rolls in my opinion.

[XxSlusherxx]

Elegy.

Until something that is as strong as and does not stack with Elegy comes out, it will be second only to utsumi in spell importance

[Spider-Dan]

which then would put brd out of a job more or less.
Only thing brd has on cor imo is a haste buff.
So I hope cor never gets a haste roll.

Does Fighter's Roll put BRD out of a job right now?

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[Callisto]

Scholar's Roll
+Conserve MP- This would work in essentially the same manner as Fighter's Roll; a simple increase to the proc rate of Conserve MP. I don't know how valuable the trait actually is, though; given that the average bonus to 2A rate from Fighter's is approximately +9%/+14% (without/with WAR), would a similar proc rate on Conserve MP be worth the paper it were printed on (relative to other available rolls)? I'm sure someone can break it down mathematically.

+Fast Cast- This would provide another useful mage buff for COR, while helping to fill in (on the casting side) for the lack of Haste rolls available. Again, since I'm no mage, I'm unsure how much would be "overpowered," but it seems that a rough average of Fast Cast+10/15 (without/with SCH) wouldn't be out of place.

I was thinking one of those two as well, out of curiosity though, anyone know if there's a cap for Fast Cast in terms of casting time-? I've never sat and tested it out fully, but with AF1 Hat/AF2 Body/Loq I'm sitting at +21(42% off of casting time), I'm wondering if a RDM could see any advantage from this roll, or if it'd just floor out at some point?

I personally would love a Conserve MP roll as a COR.

[cassiraa]

PLD/NIN and NIN/DRK with Fast Cast roll would be pretty amazing.


Pretty amazing indeed. :bagel:

[Zarath]

As pretty much the originator of regain roll, I wish we get it <<;

I don't see ourselves getting a regen roll truthfully, doesn't really jive with what we have already but you never know.

+Fast Cast roll might be viable as a SCH maybe conserve MP as well, actually I feel we'll probably get conserve MP out of the three choices you have there.

Anyways hoping upcoming rolls being good

[Ashira]

As pretty much the originator of regain roll, I wish we get it <<;

I don't see ourselves getting a regen roll truthfully, doesn't really jive with what we have already but you never know.

+Fast Cast roll might be viable as a SCH maybe conserve MP as well, actually I feel we'll probably get conserve MP out of the three choices you have there.

Anyways hoping upcoming rolls being good

Meh, they should change Gallant's Roll TO a Regen roll.. because, let's face it,... hahahaha.

Fast Cast and/or Conserve MP seems to be the same idea most people come up with for a SCH roll; though I'd thought of another which would probably be too difficult to include, and people could possibly find a hard time fitting it in, but the way SCH works with skill levels on the different grimoires, it would be interesting if a SCH roll was just a flat up skill level increase of some varying amounts between 1 and.. I dunno, 8 or 10 (...or 11) or something depending on the roll. All magic, all combat skills. We could then have more eternal debates on which sets of rolls would be the most wtfpwn of all, esp for melee.

DNC roll, same thing, obviously seems like it'd be a Regain roll and I think it was the first thing everyone thought when they thought on it; it's just the most obvious, as they use TP to do their abilities. Perhaps it could be a very very drastic difference between using it with and without a DNC in the PT, so that it wouldn't end up really outweighing the other currently desired rolls.

[Zarath]

Meh, they should change Gallant's Roll TO a Regen roll.. because, let's face it,... hahahaha.

Fast Cast and/or Conserve MP seems to be the same idea most people come up with for a SCH roll; though I'd thought of another which would probably be too difficult to include, and people could possibly find a hard time fitting it in, but the way SCH works with skill levels on the different grimoires, it would be interesting if a SCH roll was just a flat up skill level increase of some varying amounts between 1 and.. I dunno, 8 or 10 (...or 11) or something depending on the roll. All magic, all combat skills. We could then have more eternal debates on which sets of rolls would be the most wtfpwn of all, esp for melee.

DNC roll obviously seems like it'd be a Regain roll; it's just the most obvious, as they use TP to do their abilities. Perhaps it could be a very very drastic difference between using it with and without a DNC in the PT, so that it wouldn't end up really outweighing the other currently desired rolls.

I say probably, if we get regain roll, it will be like Evoker's roll. Something with that kind of TP/tick seems like a reasonable amount, it's pretty amazing regain yet not super game breaking roll.

I've been pretty stumped on SCH though, nothing from the job really shoots to me as being an obvious choice, but I do like your idea of just strait skill however, very unlikely SE will give us something as complex as that.

[ryskar]

Gallant's? That should have been a phalanx-type effect to begin with imo.

[malak]

Meh, they should change Gallant's Roll TO a Regen roll.. because, let's face it,... hahahaha.

That made me laugh irl.

[Spider-Dan]

Gallant's should be -physdmg%. But that makes too much sense.

In a perfect world (or at least, a perfect world for a corsair):

- Gallant's would be changed to -physdmg%
- Samurai would be changed to Regain
- Beast would be changed to pet ATK/ACC
- Puppet would be changed to pet MAB/MACC
- Drachen would be changed to +Haste
- Ninja would be changed to +Subtle Blow
- Monk would be changed to +Counter
- Dancer's would be Regen
- Scholar's would be +Conserve MP

I daresay that even with all of the above, there still wouldn't be half as many CORs as BRDs.

[Kerberoz]

which then would put brd out of a job more or less.
Only thing brd has on cor imo is a haste buff.
So I hope cor never gets a haste roll.

Why would a COR party with no bard, unless it's a manaburn?

Anyway, I really hope they're a mob drop and not bought off of NPCs, because I really don't feel like paying 400k for the new rolls...