Thoughts on upcoming rolls

[Spider-Dan]

Wow, I'm really surprised to see so many people on board with Regain roll. Every time I mention it in game, the unanimous response is "dood thats way to overpowered". It's really not, especially in comparison to, say, stacked Haste.

However, I do believe that at some point, they need to revisit the existing rolls. If they are going to limit COR to 1 roll per job, then there is a more pronounced need for each roll to be useful. It makes no sense whatsoever for the pet MACC/MAB roll to be on DRG when PUP relies on magic damage and DRG doesn't care about it at all. Likewise, it doesn't make sense for pet ACC and ATK to be split up, and Gallant's is just utterly useless. Monk Roll and Ninja Roll don't desperately need a retune, but they could sure use one.

[Callisto]

However, I do believe that at some point, they need to revisit the existing rolls. If they are going to limit COR to 1 roll per job, then there is a more pronounced need for each roll to be useful. It makes no sense whatsoever for the pet MACC/MAB roll to be on DRG when PUP relies on magic damage and DRG doesn't care about it at all. Likewise, it doesn't make sense for pet ACC and ATK to be split up, and Gallant's is just utterly useless. Monk Roll and Ninja Roll don't desperately need a retune, but they could sure use one.

Yeah the pet ones are off, if anything just switching PUP and DRG roll effects would be good enough IMO. Gallant's really is an interesting concept, but it's just way too weak to really be of any use, if it did the same thing, but maybe actually with reasonable numbers, I think it'd be pretty nice. As far as NIN and MNK, I personally have no beef with their effects, or the strength of the effects, but they're so freaking situational. I can't think of a fight outside of Charybdis or maybe Yovras that I'd use them at.

Now BRD roll, that's just freaking useless to me, but I can't think of anything really better to give for BRDs.

[Max™]

1-4 or 5 Tp/Tic depending if the job was there/lucky number, 20-100 Tp/Minute wouldn't be unbalancing I don't think, it would just effectively give people who had say a 8 hit setup, a 7 hit, and whatnot.

Would rock hard for Dnc at HNM though, not having to hope that you have a Sam with Shiki around, and that you beat the other melees who want his Tp when it's up, etc.

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah the pet ones are off, if anything just switching PUP and DRG roll effects would be good enough IMO. Gallant's really is an interesting concept, but it's just way too weak to really be of any use, if it did the same thing, but maybe actually with reasonable numbers, I think it'd be pretty nice. As far as NIN and MNK, I personally have no beef with their effects, or the strength of the effects, but they're so freaking situational. I can't think of a fight outside of Charybdis or maybe Yovras that I'd use them at.

As I mentioned earlier, if they changed:

Gallant's to -physdmg%
Ninja to +Subtle Blow
Monk to +Counter

...then their situational uses would be much more aligned with the situations in which you'd use them. Think about it:

In a situation where mob TP is so important that you'd rather have a defensive roll than an offensive one, are you really going to be throwing monks at it? Not likely, but it is quite probable that ninjas are going to be desired.

In a situation where PLDs are most desirable (i.e. particularly where ninjas don't work), isn't it likely that your tank would benefit substantially from as much -physdmg% as they could get?

In a situation where counters are common (read: no shadows, target is not dangerous enough to oneshot players), isn't it likely that MNK would be a desirable job?

As it is now, the situational uses of those rolls don't even match up to the jobs that are tied to them (except for Ninja Roll, barely).

Now BRD roll, that's just freaking useless to me, but I can't think of anything really better to give for BRDs.

Actually, I'm a fan of Choral Roll. The -interruption effect on it is pretty freaking hefty, and I like the idea of having that in our back pocket. There really aren't any existing fights where that makes a major difference, but if one comes along, COR could be a major difference-maker. It's an extremely powerful roll; it's just that a good situation for it doesn't really exist yet.

In contrast, Monk/Ninja/Gallant's Roll aren't even particularly powerful. It's the precise combination of "specificity" and "inadequacy" that make those rolls such a waste. If Gallant's reflected ~50% of the damage taken, it'd be a good roll.

[Ferien]

What's wrong with MNK roll? For the situations in which you'd be using MNK tanks (Salvage especially), I'd say Subtle Blow is the one of the most useful stats available. Generally the MNK will be /NIN, severely hampering Counter's effectiveness, so that would be a pretty crappy roll, and the fights themselves are strongly influenced by the mob's rate of TP, which Subtle Blow serves to directly reduce. I'd put Subtle Blow up there with Slow and Haste in terms of enhancing a MNK's (and the rest of the alliance behind that MNK tank) survivability.

[Spider-Dan]

What's wrong with MNK roll? For the situations in which you'd be using MNK tanks (Salvage especially), I'd say Subtle Blow is the one of the most useful stats available.

It's not. There are two mutually exclusive scenarios at work:

a) a mob with TP moves so dangerous that +Subtle Blow is worth taking over +damage
b) a mob that is benign enough for MNK to tank

Particularly in Salvage, +Subtle Blow loses to the standard Fighter's/Chaos/Rogue's trio. You can reduce mob TP usage just as effectively by killing the mobs faster, and you have the extra benefit of actually killing the mobs faster.

[Gergall]

What's wrong with MNK roll? For the situations in which you'd be using MNK tanks (Salvage especially), I'd say Subtle Blow is the one of the most useful stats available.

It's not. There are two mutually exclusive scenarios at work:

a) a mob with TP moves so dangerous that +Subtle Blow is worth taking over +damage
b) a mob that is benign enough for MNK to tank

Particularly in Salvage, +Subtle Blow loses to the standard Fighter's/Chaos/Rogue's trio. You can reduce mob TP usage just as effectively by killing the mobs faster, and you have the extra benefit of actually killing the mobs faster.

With MNK roll on:
a) The MNK tried tanking Tiamat... "Ouch! This mob is tooooo strong."
b) The MNK tried tanking regular Salvage mobs... "Just give me +attack! This mob is tooooo weak."
c) The MNK tried tanking a chariot final boss... "Aha! This mob is juuuuuust right!"

MNKs can tank the mega-boss (and it's a lot easier to climb to them by decking out 2 MNKs than 2 NINs) but it's still ideal to reduce TP gain.

[Spider-Dan]

With MNK roll on:
a) The MNK tried tanking Tiamat... "Ouch! This mob is tooooo strong."
b) The MNK tried tanking regular Salvage mobs... "Just give me +attack! This mob is tooooo weak."
c) The MNK tried tanking a chariot final boss... "Aha! This mob is juuuuuust right!"

MNKs can tank the mega-boss (and it's a lot easier to climb to them by decking out 2 MNKs than 2 NINs) but it's still ideal to reduce TP gain.

Chariot bosses are pretty much the best possible example for a mob where you'd use Monk Roll, and even then, I don't think it's worth it (from the fights I've seen, at least). My LS primarily does Bhaflau/LBC with 2 MNKs, and I doubt making that fight go slower would help; it still has regain anyway, so I don't think the decreased MP requirements would offset the loss in damage.

[shukuffxi]

With MNK roll on:
a) The MNK tried tanking Tiamat... "Ouch! This mob is tooooo strong."
b) The MNK tried tanking regular Salvage mobs... "Just give me +attack! This mob is tooooo weak."
c) The MNK tried tanking a chariot final boss... "Aha! This mob is juuuuuust right!"

MNKs can tank the mega-boss (and it's a lot easier to climb to them by decking out 2 MNKs than 2 NINs) but it's still ideal to reduce TP gain.

Chariot bosses are pretty much the best possible example for a mob where you'd use Monk Roll, and even then, I don't think it's worth it (from the fights I've seen, at least). My LS primarily does Bhaflau/LBC with 2 MNKs, and I doubt making that fight go slower would help; it still has regain anyway, so I don't think the decreased MP requirements would offset the loss in damage.

Monk's Roll on a MNK tank on LBC is wtfpwn til it gets auto-regain. My group is kinda dead/super long Salvage hiatus, but every LBC (well almost all runs, period) I was on COR, and it was a noticeable difference when I was not. MNK's + Chaos -> 25% is Chaos > 2nd DD roll of your chosing.

[Thufir]

And at this point, I'm going to say JUST PUT THE BLU/COR/PUP/DNC/SCH AF2 IN OLD DYNAMIS ALREADY.

qft... If they don't want to screw up their storyline worse than time travel already does, just make a craft material drop from dynamis that you take to a NPC to synth, like AF1 but R/EX... so simple.

I'd say with Diablos creating that whole dream world and DL being a powerful gent, they could just toss all that AF2 in there and shrug it off with a lame excuse in the interests of fairness to all jobs.

I want my PUP af2!