FFXI Thinning Out?

[Correction]

Man it's harder and harder to find subscription numbers these days.

http://mmogdata.voig.com/

Has FFXI at 500k total subscriptions as of October of last year.

That's the same number mmogchart.com had in July of 06, the last time they updated:

http://www.mmogchart.com/

In both cases they have that number as down from the peak of FFXI subscriptions at 650k in 2005.

It's not dying fast, but its peak was 2+ years ago and there isn't enough inflow of new customers to sustain growth. So the real question is: Does SE have what it takes to attract new customers to their only online game, or not? Do they even care about growth? They're probably still making money but the game is well past its prime you have to admit. If you were in charge of the company you'd have to make decisions purely on whether or not the money outlay to keep the existing customer base happy is justified by the amount an ungrowing population generates in revenue.

[Lucavi]

The smaller it gets, the better it gets, IMO. That's less competition for the things I want. So long as the people I enjoy playing with aren't the ones leaving, I can't really get to upset when people leave for WoW.

I'm really just holding out for the next-gen MMO with enhanced graphics, ect. anyway. FFXI has satisfied me for a long time -- I'm still playing just to feed my community swords-and-sorcery addiction.























...and the mithra.

[ronin sparthos]

They arent in direct competition with many MMOs due to the fact that SE has already conceded that WoW will always have the upperhand in player volume and the nature of MMOs to never 'fully' die. I think SE is content with what they have 2.5k-5k players per server and being the only MMO that has players from all over the world playing on the same servers along with cross-platform capabilities. I havent seen a commercial regarding FFXI in a number of years (early '05 maybe?) and the marketing of the game basically just rides on 'heys its a FF game, go buy it.'

The only shortcoming seems to be the endgame scene wasnt set up for a high volume amount of players anyways so more people would just mean more servers to service more people.

I dont think per-se that less = better in the sense that besides endgame events (hi thar kings etc) everything just becomes more annoying and hard to put together; mid-game EXP nightmares and low level job grinding in a game that is really focused on partying makes it hard to get to 75 without a static. If anything the only thing that benefits from a smaller server population is endgame camping.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Man, just when I thought Yuhtuwhatever was done posting stupid shit, this one tops the cake.

[Lucavi]

If anything the only thing that benefits from a smaller server population is endgame camping.

Its kind of ironic -- it'll be very easy to endgame camp during the very time where it really won't mean much. Eventually a person will be able to get just about everything they want in a month's worth of work, but who will be there to congratulate them?

FFXI will feel more like one of those action/rpgs like dungeon siege where you party up with a random 6 people and do shit, instead of this "Action on a grandiose scale" feel.

[Lordender]

The smaller it gets, the better it gets, IMO. That's less competition for the things I want. So long as the people I enjoy playing with aren't the ones leaving, I can't really get to upset when people leave for WoW.

End game is so crowded these days, on my server(carbuncle) its pretty fucking rediculous. Competiton went thru the roof when getting to 75 got a ton easier. Overall there were less people leveling low jobs prior to WoTG which makes it seem like the game is dying rather fast. Depending what server your on, the end game is an overcrowded cluster fuck which is where most of the population has shifted.

I still think there is just not enough HNM to meet the new growth of end game population, if you want a shot at Khim or Tiamat on my server you better camp the entire window with a holding party or you won't get it. I know people are gonna say Salvage etc this and that but that doesn't stop people from wanting gaiters, hottyclair, d.rings and even ridills still.

[BRP]

Sorry to disappointed the humorously bitter,

a lot of people do pick up Final Fantasy 11, likely dozens and dozens a day, but they are scared away by the lack of any sort of pointing into the right direction or in-game guide. Players have to rely entirely on outside sources(including other players) in order to succeed and this scares away most people(along with a lack of quest/non-party exp before level 30). This is only made worse for Xbox360 players(who make up probably half of the new players). Anyone who thinks no one is trying the game out is absolutely incorrect.

FFXI's population would hardly grow with the addition of "gear progression"(or anything like that beyond the releasing of 3-5 endgame events with mixed level content), but will grow a very large amount if SE streamlined the beginning of the game and had it rely on less on outside information sources. WoW's success has very, very little to do with it's raid system and more to do with how easy it is to get into the meat of the game.

[zue]

If you guys think FFXI is dying, you all should have seen Phantasy Star Universe on it's seventh day after launch. That game has something like 30+ servers, 2 servers were ever full, the other 30 something just laid empty. I played PSU for 3 days before quitting and turning back to FFXI. The only difference I notice between my own experience with FFXI, is that recently I find that the more I go out or play something else, the less interested I am in playing FFXI; whereas in the past I'd at times choose a night with my LS over a night of puking after bar hopping with my friends, now I choose Pabst and bitches.

[Raelz]

To touch on what has already been said, of course FFXI is dying, it's an entity and experiences market entropy as gaming trends change, technology enhances, and people begin to lose interest in it. However, there are many reasons why it hasn't died yet, and probably won't die in the foreseeable future. Not the least of which deals with the fact that FFXI, and many other MMOs of it's ilk(ones that have been around for a 5+ years), continue to make large sums of revenue for the companies that develop and maintain them.

FFXI is basically like a for SE. They use it to make a lot of money that they basically need to do very little work for(carry it around, maybe clean it), and eventually they'll place it strategically next to another MMO, so we can all step up with relative ease.

Of course, there are far more reasons why FFXI persists, not the least of which being the solid gameplay( ), and endless content

Ultimately though, IMO 8) , MMO persistence has to do with maintaining a level of disposable income, even years after technology has eclipsed it's original capabilities and level of design, and even after games like WoW exponentially dwarf it's subscription numbers.

As long as they make money, they'll keep making bad expansion packs.

As long as they keep making bad expansion packs, we'll keep finding stuff we like about them and playing.

(btw, the new smilies are geeksex.)

[Siatdiat]

To everyone expecting SE to make another mmo that is totally sick and you'll want to go play, well.... Look at it like EQ2. EQ2 came out, and all the people who didn't like EQ1 b/c of the hardcoreness of it said fuck that I'm not playing it. The big EQ fans were like fuck that I'm still playing EQ, sequel can suck me. This whole thread is like a kid wanting attention, even if its just negative attention. Since its been brought up I'll just express my opinion like this. The game was never designed to be added onto, they thought players would enjoy zilart for awhile then be ready to quit playing. The thing they didnt realize is people put alot of effort into FFXI and become addicted, even though its just files on a server somewhere, people feel like they put years of effort into the game and even if the game took a huge shit there is a group of people who wont be able to quit. People who still play EQ now dont continue playing b/c of great content or gameplay, they keep playing b/c they dont want to throw away like 10 years of hardcore play time. I don't see many MMO games having actual server shut downs that go well with the playbase at all, and if they do I can see the news now, reporting on suicides and shit from these players who couldnt quit and wont know what to do when their 15 years of work gets /shutdown with the rest of it. Hopefully players will be able to run their own server methadone clinics to keep them from going insane until they can kick the habit.

In conclusion, I hope all the MMOs are in a process of thinning out, at a constant rate. I have personal fears for what implications the popularity of WoW has, since its currently got .07% of the worlds population playing it and as far as i know no signs of declining.

Edit: I responded to something I saw in a post that came up while I was typing this.... pretend these are just 1 big WOT post.

[Siatdiat]

If anything the only thing that benefits from a smaller server population is endgame camping.

Its kind of ironic -- it'll be very easy to endgame camp during the very time where it really won't mean much. Eventually a person will be able to get just about everything they want in a month's worth of work, but who will be there to congratulate them?

FFXI will feel more like one of those action/rpgs like dungeon siege where you party up with a random 6 people and do shit, instead of this "Action on a grandiose scale" feel.

Literally the last big accomplishment I felt in FFXI was killing Vrtra first on Midgard, that was action on a grandiose scale. That was also years ago. I never felt accomplished racing around sky, I never felt accomplished bumbling around salvage, or killing the salvage bosses. I never felt accomplished doing all 50 assaults, or getting lucky with an NM or HNM drop. What gets thrown around alot in these threads is that FFXI is challenging and I just dont see it. NA players even put in the farming to get to Odin and killed it their first try. So its not actually challenging to kill it for skilled players, just annoying to get access to him. Keep piping up that FFXI is challenging and difficult, I need something to make me laugh today.

[Thalion]

I haven't played in over a year but I still check the BG front page once a month to see what new stuff SE has added. Nothing has changed, I see the same old Dynamis zones, sky, sea and limbus events you guys do. Is it still fun for you guys, I cant imagine doing that same stuff over and over again.

[ronin sparthos]

True, its very hard to get into FFXI as a newb due to the fact that people like me expect people to know the common sense mechanics and im sure that scares people off when they realize the work you need to put into the game to get ANYWHERE.

To get to 75: level a job to 18, get sj, go back, level sj to 18, level to 37, go back, level sj to 37, go back level main to 75. Dont forget genkais and harder G5s if you use certain jobs...

Combine this with bad parties, mission progression and the issue of gil being so hard to farm and its no wonder that most people give up before you hit 75.

SE has tried making it easier getting 75 via various ways:

-EXP bands
-New areas w/Sigil
-Better JAs and gear
-Lower EXP to level post50
-ToAU EXP

mainly the issue is often the playerbase stuck on the same tedious grind and less of people doing something new. The path we use to typically EXP is the same used 3years ago for the most part bar the post 53 stretch to 75, why? people favor repetition i guess.

SE has fucked up on their end by not having official forums to discuss such a massive game like FFXI and telling people to not use third-party sites which generally leads to a new person being confused as fuck ingame (i remember when i was confused about stats because people said so many inconsistant things) and that leads to eventually quitting. The game need not be easy, but SE has learned some in the present with the 'New Players Guide' and making more solo content... but the fact still stands that if you never read a 3rd party source you'd have NO IDEA what alot of things do ingame. The most glaring example is food items.

FFXI's population would hardly grow with the addition of "gear progression"(or anything like that beyond the releasing of 3-5 endgame events with mixed level content)

I beg to differ, more endgame events would entice people to play since FFXI gets a bad rap about camping kings and everyone likes to make light of the issue of '125 people sitting in a zone for 3hours waiting for something to pop' versus WoWs majorly raid/instanced endgame events. I know alot of people who have quit based on the fact that endgame FFXI has less to do with challenges or having fun and more about who can get the mob that spawns purple. The endgame mobs are a joke to most people that get past the 'virgin' fight against them and the addition of the ToAU HNMs did nothing beyond increasing the clock on how hard they spawned.

Going past what is currently the 'best' in terms of kings and difficulty levels and basically reinventing what we know 'endgame' to be would go along way in enticing more players to put down another game and pick up FFXI.

[Lordender]

Lack of infomation in game also makes new players disgruntled and quit. I don't think I have ever seen an NPC in game explain things like enmity so when new players get up to the party leveling they at least know not to overdo it. I think there is a lack of cheap good starting gear before seer's and really nothing great for early level melee's to help new players ease into the game that can be obtained thru quests.


Lack of good starter npc's that explain game mechanic's/job function in a party and not so good low level gear just make it a nightmare for a new player. Most new players I come across generally don't search the net to learn about early level partying and emity etc etc, the game just lacks good ingame knowledge for the new player.

[Araius]

If you guys think FFXI is dying, you all should have seen Phantasy Star Universe on it's seventh day after launch. That game has something like 30+ servers, 2 servers were ever full, the other 30 something just laid empty. I played PSU for 3 days before quitting and turning back to FFXI. The only difference I notice between my own experience with FFXI, is that recently I find that the more I go out or play something else, the less interested I am in playing FFXI; whereas in the past I'd at times choose a night with my LS over a night of puking after bar hopping with my friends, now I choose Pabst and bitches.

Oh man, so true. I loved that game for the 4 days I played it online. Then I realized there was so ungodly little online content and so many empty servers and went to offline-onry. That game would have lost a massive amount of money if it hadn't had an offline version, probably did anyways. I was really disappointed to because I loved the PSO:BB open beta, I thought it would kick ass.

Also, Pabst ftw.

[BRP]

Another issue, which I'm not so sure you can blame SE for, is that players are locked into the idea that there is nothing to do before level 75(unless it is mandatory). This is unfortunate as SE has designed a whole lot of content available very early on. Assaults at level 50 and 60 for example.

I beg to differ, more endgame events would entice people to play since FFXI gets a bad rap about camping kings and everyone likes to make light of the issue of '125 people sitting in a zone for 3hours waiting for something to pop' versus WoWs majorly raid/instanced endgame events. I know alot of people who have quit based on the fact that endgame FFXI has less to do with challenges or having fun and more about who can get the mob that spawns purple. The endgame mobs are a joke to most people that get past the 'virgin' fight against them and the addition of the ToAU HNMs did nothing beyond increasing the clock on how hard they spawned.

SE has already moved focus away from HNMs and apparently seem to make them entirely optional(compared to the RotZ scene most players were introduced to). Adding gear progression doesn't mean fixing HNMs and most of that information is probably coming from people who haven't played in a long time, meaning new things wouldn't change their mind(in the case of Limbus, Salvage, and Assaults).

[ronin sparthos]

Lack of infomation in game also makes new players disgruntled and quit. I don't think I have ever seen an NPC in game explain things like enmity so when new players get up to the party leveling they at least know not to overdo it. I think there is a lack of cheap good starting gear before seer's and really nothing great for early level melee's to help new players ease into the game that can be obtained thru quests.

I remember starting up and having to run through dictionary.com to kinda put 2+2 together to realize exactly what the hell enmity was.

Gear isnt a problem, i think SE having a site that basically answers typical questions or somewhere where veterans can post ideas in a concise fashion to help the newer players would help draw in more new players. SE really stabs theirselves in the foot with the 'dont use any 3rd pt resources' spam which leads to people spending a day in a starter city confused, lost, 'fuck this' and quitting.

The endgame situation could be made alot more user-friendly as well.

[BRP]

i think SE having a site that basically answers typical questions

There's this: http://www.playonline.com/ff11newplayer ... ml?lang=en which I think is quite excellent, but does little for the incredibly vague quest descriptions/directions that are everywhere. Among other issues. Additionally, the guide is never pointed to within the game, and it's very rare for a new player to visit "Playonline.com" randomly.

[Siatdiat]

Another issue, which I'm not so sure you can blame SE for, is that players are locked into the idea that there is nothing to do before level 75(unless it is mandatory). This is unfortunate as SE has designed a whole lot of content available very early on. Assaults at level 50 and 60 for example.

I beg to differ, more endgame events would entice people to play since FFXI gets a bad rap about camping kings and everyone likes to make light of the issue of '125 people sitting in a zone for 3hours waiting for something to pop' versus WoWs majorly raid/instanced endgame events. I know alot of people who have quit based on the fact that endgame FFXI has less to do with challenges or having fun and more about who can get the mob that spawns purple. The endgame mobs are a joke to most people that get past the 'virgin' fight against them and the addition of the ToAU HNMs did nothing beyond increasing the clock on how hard they spawned.

SE has already moved focus away from HNMs and apparently seem to make them entirely optional(compared to the RotZ scene most players were introduced to). Adding gear progression doesn't mean fixing HNMs and most of that information is probably coming from people who haven't played in a long time, meaning new things wouldn't change their mind(in the case of Limbus, Salvage, and Assaults).

Optional doesn't make much sense to me when I think of an FF game, online or not. How many people spent 100s of hours mastering materia in ff7 so they could defeat emerald and ruby weapon? Those were optional bosses, but the most hardcore players want to do it all. That is a hallmark of ff games really atleast for me. So to say anything in an FF game is optional but not required sounds silly to me. If there is an item that is the best for a slot in any circumstance, hardcore players will want it and will put the time in for it, if they can stand it. If they cant stand it then they will just get angry about it and quit. I don't think this is a new idea being expressed. People always like to post shit like "Oh I'm so wonderful, I just play ffxi to chat with friends and help noobs do G1 all day." Thats great. Believe it or not alot of people like to
make goals based on gameplay and then meet them.

[ronin sparthos]

There's this: http://www.playonline.com/ff11newplayer ... ml?lang=en which I think is quite excellent, but does little for the incredibly vague quest descriptions/directions that are everywhere. Among other issues. Additionally, the guide is never pointed to within the game, and it's very rare for a new player to visit "Playonline.com" randomly.

I remember when they first announced this, but like you said its on POL.com and no one goes there for the most part. This should be more something along the lines of thrown in your face when you first start as a big: CLICK HERE or part of a tutorial system someone can toggle on or off if they so choose.

Or SE could actually design a resource site that covers simple terms, compiles all the history and lore of the game and the various jobs topped off with a nice exciting discription of the various expansion packs along with little guides on food and other things that have no point being hidden stats besides 'mystery and intrigue' which boils down to pissed off players and one-track mind thinking.