Information on New and Existing Jobs

[LD]

With what little I've learned of The Far South and West, it could come from either, they both seem to have cultures that are very close to nature.

[Nirokun!]

Barlightra and Bardarkra have been added to the White Mage Spell List.

IS IT SO HARD SE?

[ronin sparthos]

If it's magic, it's not Geomancy. Geomancy is calling on the power of the Earth, using your environment to your advantage. The weather spells are simply forcing an elemental effect, like nukes and other types of magic, it has less to do with nature and more to do with the will of the user. That 'weather unlocking spells' thing is cute & all, but it's no more like Geomancy than the day & weather affecting magic potency (and frankly, I'd prefer they start with Light & Dark Arts unlocking spells before they make the jump to something even more conditional).

The point is that at this moment scholar is nothing more than a BLM in RDMs clothing with a few tricks involving a book. What exactly is the job supposed to do when its pitted against the two most powerful casting classes in the game with a handful of JAs and access to everything RDM has EXCEPT the useful spells? (Arguably haste, refresh, blink, stoneskin etc) What makes me wanna be a Scholar over being a Red or Black Mage besides making a book appear before me at will?

My point was that SE devised this job based on geomancer as loosely as necromancer is to puppetmaster. Scholar is called 'a masterful tactician that studies both white and black magic to be a proficient leader on the battlefield' and that translates loosely to someone that can either manipulate situations it puts before itself (weather conditions) or a RDM/BLM in fancier wording.

The nature of a SCH is supposed to be smart magician, how is unlocking spells via using weather effects a gimmick? The job is supposed to be a 'tactician' and what do tacticians do when the tides turn in their favor? They sieze it. The idea takes what geomancer could have been and fuses it to scholar in the attempt to create a unique playstyle for scholar all while having the tools to create those 'terrains' out of the unique spells Scholar possesses. Tell me, what can a scholar do with those storm spells besides improve another mages damage or perpetuation costs or its own damage? The spell-list for SCH is so poor as it stands and just giving it more spells without something creative is just begging the playerbase to call it a gimp BLM/RDM with a one trick pony.

The job needs conditions to preserve balance, i thought out the idea of using weathers to trip higher or more conditional spells and it is only not an effective way to go about SCH but it will keep BLMs on top of mana damage, RDMs on top of enfeebs/healing and SCH somewhere between the two all while pleasing the people dissapointed they didnt release Geomancer instead. It could also be used as in excuse to give BLMs tier Vs to keep them on top with an edge. (Though it wouldnt be needed in the slightest)

Id like to hear other peoples takes on what SCH should be like, LD you can pitch in your idea as well.

[LD]

What the fuck do I care? :/

I'm just clarifying the nature of magic and geomancy.

[ronin sparthos]

This is FFXI, what other FFs set as the standard can easily be modified for the sake of making a job appealing. Im a geomancer fan and my opinion says this game has enough DDs - just take the Geomancer gimmick and fuse it to Scholar. Otherwise it will end up a RDM clone that people will instantly label as inferior or a BLM that doesnt have tier 4s, AMII or -ga's and will be labeled inferior again.

Its got the weatherchanges, take the ball and run with it SE. No one wants another damned 'useless' job because they feel the helix spells you get near endgame levels will be enough to sell the entire job as is. The blink and stoneskin additions will be great as well as any other defensive spells but even with those (to mainly appeal to subjob people) i dont see how the job will be unique. Hopefully they do something amazing next update.

[LD]

Modified, yes. Completely changed, no. How Geomancer ultimately turns out is anyone's guess, but it will have some basic traits that it's always had. If things can be modified, how do you know Geomancer would be only a DD or a DD at all? If you think SCH's current gimmick is so unappealing, what makes you think a new one would improve its situation? Even if it would, why should SCH get the change? Other jobs are more deserving and could get it just as easily. Why should it be given to you? You deserve it the most?

The REAL fact is that SCH is a new job with wrinkles that need to be ironed out, and that's all. With the defensive abilities it's going to get, possibly changing how Helixes work, and the AF it currently lacks, it's going to get all it needs to be more functional. I'd listen to your complaints about being like RDMs if RDMs didn't bitch about the exact same thing. Deal with it. The job is two months old, at least wait a year before you bawl and wax on about what you're entitled to like the rest of the fucking mage jobs. *spit* -_- Until then, this is me not giving a fuck.

Again, Geomancy cannot be magic by definition. You may get more spells like the storms, but it wont be Geomancy unless it's not magic. Thus, your usage of the term is incorrect.

[Rocl]

Geomancy was affected by Magic Atk Up in Tactics, and Magic Attack in general- therefore it could be magic if they wanted it to be. lern2play

(Oh Khamsin~)

[LD]

Ahhh, but so is Ninjutsu (MAB makes the Elemental wheel stronger). Geomancy has always been instant, never used MP, and couldn't be silenced. Silence may stop songs & ninjutsu, but it doesn't stop BP usage, because it's coming from something other than you. I don't think they'd change established traits arbitrarily, especially for the purpose of one job that just came out.

[DeadLegend]

Drgs could jump halfway across maps and strike mobs from twice the distance of other melee classes in fftactics.


but ffxi is not fftactics, and geomancer hasn't been added. lol

[ronin sparthos]

Modified, yes. Completely changed, no. How Geomancer ultimately turns out is anyone's guess, but it will have some basic traits. If things can be modified, how do you know Geomancer would be only a DD or a DD at all? If you think SCH's current gimmick is so unappealing, what makes you think a new one would improve its situation? Even if it would, why should SCH get the change? Other jobs are more deserving and could get it just as easily. Why should it be given to you? You deserve it the most?

The REAL fact is that SCH is a new job with wrinkles that need to be ironed out, and that's all. With the defensive abilities it's going to get, possibly changing how Helixes work, and the AF it currently lacks, it's going to get all it needs to be more functional. I'd listen to your complaints about being like RDMs if RDMs didn't bitch about the exact same thing. Deal with it. The job is two months old, at least wait a year before you bawl and wax on about what you're entitled to like the rest of the fucking mage jobs. *spit* -_- Until then, this is me not giving a fuck.

Geomancer has always been a DD, if it isnt meleeing its not Geomancer even they modified it for FFXI. The reason SCH should get a change is because currently it looks completely unfinished compared to Dancer, it needs something to make it unique (what do you suggest, oh right, nothing.) and without some uniqueness/effectiveness its going to go down in obscurity much like people redicule puppetmaster, lolsmn etc.

I dont get your stance in this issue, im suggesting some changes (i never said overhaul the job as geomancer did i?) that would involve using the Geomancer 'template' and your asking me why i feel like i deserve it? lol, im not even a fucking Scholar and frankly SCH should be right up at the top of the queue next to SMN, PUP and BLM among other jobs that need fixing. The fact of the matter is ive always been a SAM and BLU main and i can safely say that SAM doesnt need any more buffs in the slightest, allocate that time to fixing the real jobs in need.

This is all my opinion, but i dont think buffing Helixes and giving them defensive buffs is going to make the job any more appealing as a MAIN moreso it will as a subjob. AF can make the job better at things but the spell-list looks so poor whats the point? The job will still end up being a RDM with DoTs/controlled obi bonuses instead of haste/refresh/melee skills (lol) on its current course. Dancer came out of the box fully functioning and can hold its own perfectly fine, is unique and has understandable limitations whereas on the other hand SCH needs some real work to fix its glaring issues. (weak spellist, lack of a true 'use' outside dropping a DoT on something/backup curing, blm without the good spells) Complete bullshit to have to wait a full year to see simple shit fixed, and i dont know where your coming from with me bitching for something i could care less seeing fixed frankly because all im doing is pointing out the flaws and suggesting solutions. (not like SE takes playerbase ideas amirite?) Lol why do i care what you think when your obviously loving arguing but not suggesting anything productive.

Again, Geomancy cannot be magic by definition. You may get more spells like the storms, but it wont be Geomancy unless it's not magic. Thus, your usage of the term is incorrect.

Dude, its magic. Go play FFT or FF5 and see what it is. In Tactics it was magic that didnt have mp or cast time, in FF5 it was magic that again didnt have MP or cast time but both games defined it as magic, it was magic that was limited by simple terrains. Both had capable melee skills (swords, axes, bells) and were limited by terrain which could easily translate in XI to what 'storm spell you have up.

Any other ideas on how to 'better' Scholar would be cool reading.

[Max™]

Ya know, giving Scholars TIV's with the appropriate weather up would actually kinda make sense... wouldn't it?

[Rocl]

Drgs could jump halfway across maps and strike mobs from twice the distance of other melee classes in fftactics.


but ffxi is not fftactics, and geomancer hasn't been added. lol

The entire post was mostly a joke for Khamsin <_<

[DeadLegend]

Don't mind me, I'm just a party pooper. Was more of a response to the general discussion of geo being/not being magic.

[Khamsin]

Geomancer has always been a DD, if it isnt meleeing its not Geomancer even they modified it for FFXI.

I never meleed with my Geomancers. Their bells suck. I just spammed their geomancer ability for maximum effect, although it was a little annoying in areas where they'd randomly use KO abilities that rarely worked.

Geomancy was affected by Magic Atk Up in Tactics, and Magic Attack in general- therefore it could be magic if they wanted it to be. lern2play

(Oh Khamsin~)

But Tactics was never a-- oh shit. Damn it, Rocl.

[Priran]

SCH controlling weather is the closest thing to Geomancer FFXI is ever going to see. Less "omg geomancer", more "how to fix SCH".

Storm spells suck, pretty much no one cares about weather effects outside of BLMs trying to out-peen each other. SCH is not only without an immediately desirable buff for mages, but a unique buff for melees. Hell, any buff for melees.

Regain obviously would be one solution, but unique spells for things like Attack (like Saber, but castable on others), Accuracy, and Crit Rate would make SCH desirable.

For mages, something like Cure for MP. Since nearly all methods of MP regeneration are gradual, this makes SCH stand out

Remove the stupid spell restrictions from the stratagems, and make white magic enfeebles exempt from the Dark Arts casting penalty. And of course, add Blink/Stoneskin.

[LD]

DD, yes. Physical DD, no. Geomancy, and by extension Geomancer, in tactics was primarily used for long ranged attacks. GAX in tactics were horribly random, you never relied on GEO's physical power. So while it may have some melee ability, it can be a GEO without meleeing, just as it has been in FFV. Also, you seem to be missing the fact that I was pointing out that if you think things can change, why would GEO automatically be JUST a DD instead of a hybrid, like everything else is? The problem with implementing actual Geomancy into a job that has other unique abilities is that balance wise, it could only be taken so far. Then, since all of these abilities are already taken, a REAL GEO wont be made, because there is no longer anything unique about it.

Dancer may seem finished, but that's just the luck of the draw. It could have started just as badly as SCH with one or two missteps, so to speak. In fact, DNC is the ONLY job that was this well-rounded at release, every other job has had hiccups that were gradually fixed, some worse than others. SCH doesn't need any big new things two months after it was added and you can't really say SCH would still be weak after SE adjusts what it already has. PUP, BST, & SMN have earned what little bitching licence the community allows them by not getting any better for a long time and frankly, the only one that hasn't expired is PUP's.

Your opinion of SCH's path is highly restricted by what you want the job to do, which seems to be buff. SCH already has some decent abilities in DMG, Helixes only need some accuracy fixes. The job needs time to completely develop before we start tacking on new shit, and that includes waiting for a potential enhancement given by AF. Until you get your AF (and Stoneskin), you can't reasonably complain about anything, since you don't have most basic piece of equipment that supplements a job's abilities. Pointing out flaws and suggesting solutions? You're complaining about SCH becoming a new RDM and suggesting it gets a line of ENFEEBLES AND BUFFS via its storm spells. Everyone knows what needs to be fixed, you just want it to be special. News Flash, it's already fucking special. Just because you don't think it's special enough doesn't mean you need a line of highly conditional gimmicks to grab that invite, you just need to fix what is broken.

If it doesn't use MP and can't be silenced, it isn't magic. Just because it was on a list that was near or in the same menu doesn't make it magic. Since it operates differently from (I'll even allow you *normal*) magic, it shouldn't be given to a magician. BRDs don't use magic, they sing (play) songs. NINs don't use magic, they use tools (and Chakra, lol) to cast Ninjutsu. They are similar, but require a different skillset. A WHM doesn't necessarily have the ability to sing, does he?


Productive? The only productive things in this entire thread came from Elmer. Everything else is useless fluff, what I'm saying, what you're saying, it's all for the purpose of expressing our ideas. In the end, none of this shit really matters. I'm only doing this because I think you're wrong, I don't need any other reason, though interestingly enough, I have one. Every time some asshole bitches about their job for no real reason (awww, I'm a BLM, I can't get in burn PTs. solo? manaburn? HNM? what are these words you speak?) they get a following of people who probably know they don't need anything but WANT it anyway, and support the OP with a deluge of praise. Even in my presence. I bring up the reasonable topic of making guard something that isn't completely worthless (which it has been for a significantly longer than SCH), and then some ass ruins the credibility of the post by going on about how it needs to block more damage or we need to hit harder, etc. SCH is a shitty job right now, there's no debate there, but not enough time has passed for any substantial changes to be made, so you shouldn't reasonably be asking for them. It's like if right after DRG was added, one of them asked to be a tank before they discovered pentaspam. What does this all mean? You don't know what the fuck you're saying. Wafik is the only reasonable voice I've heard on the subject. You're children whining for what you want, and someone has to correct you. BLM, SAM, and RDM don't really need anything. PUP needs the most help. Everything else only needs a bit of spitshine to round them out, and that's what they're getting. Nothing major has to be done.

Why should I have to come up with anything when I'm telling you practically nothing needs to be done? This isn't an exchange of ideas, this is me telling you you're asking for something you don't really need (or at least haven't been proven to need). Since you can't really say SCH would still be worthless with defensive and helix changes, this is all just another mage bitch trip. SCH's JA system is unique enough, it just needs to be improved.

[FinalJustice]

I havmt had much experience with SCH just yet. But from what i can gather from playing with them in parties, SCHs need tweaks rather then drastic new abilities.

I think that all they need is Helix tweaks, more usable spells (SS, blink, dispel, Haste etc), MAB gear (i cant tress this enough, because Sch starts out as a very powerful nuker, but falls off as soon as BLMs get their hands on all that MAB gear), and a similar DOT system so mutiple SCH can work together like those BLM ele dots. I think these simple tweaks would go a long way to fix the job.

[spooky]

I havmt had much experience with SCH just yet. But from what i can gather from playing with them in parties, SCHs need tweaks rather then drastic new abilities.

I think that all they need is Helix tweaks, more usable spells (SS, blink, dispel, Haste etc), MAB gear (i cant tress this enough, because Sch starts out as a very powerful nuker, but falls off as soon as BLMs get their hands on all that MAB gear), and a similar DOT system so mutiple SCH can work together like those BLM ele dots. I think these simple tweaks would go a long way to fix the job.

So you're idea to fix the job is to basicaly make it as good as BLM is now, only better because it will have access to all the WHM stuff, weather buffs, and helixes? lol nice fix.
Hell why not give them refresh, raise 3, pro/shell 5, na spells, and do away with all other mage jobs!
Doing somthing like that doesn't really take the job in a direction that's unique. I'd like to see better uses for weather buffs, maybe something where you could unlock spells on other people for a time, and things like regen-ga. Trying to bring it closer to things we already have is pretty boring.

[FinalJustice]

where did I say make it as powerful a nuker as a blm??????
I'd love to know.

Just because i said give it more MAB gear doesn't mean it should be JUST as powerful as a blm. It doesnt have access to Tier IVs, GA III's or AMII like Burst, so i dont see where you get this conclusion. The only close thing it should get to a blm in terms of damage is from a Thunder III. Bad enough the job is so weak, but its BLM side is the worst part.

I'd love to see the job be far more unique, perhaps a "Regain spell", but currently the whole basis for the job is already close to things we have. Look at its spell list. To make it more unique SE needs to add totally new things. Im simply suggesting fixes to the jobs current woes.

[spooky]

where did I say make it as powerful a nuker as a blm??????
I'd love to know.

Just because i said give it more MAB gear doesn't mean it should be JUST as powerful as a blm. It doesnt have access to Tier IVs, GA III's or AMII like Burst, so i dont see where you get this conclusion. The only close thing it should get to a blm in terms of damage is from a Thunder III. Bad enough the job is so weak, but its BLM side is the worst part.

I didn't say JUST I said BASICALY lern2fkingread. The job isn't weak it's just unfocused.
You say the BLM part of the job is the worst part, but by focusing it on that you're not adding to the game we don't already have. Wouldn't it be better to focus it on making it differnet from jobs we already have?
I don't hear RDMs crying they don't nuke hard enough.