Information on New and Existing Jobs

[FinalJustice]

So you're idea to fix the job is to basicaly make it as good as BLM

Now you want to argue semantics on the meaning of "basically make it as good" vs "just as good"?? Idk, looking at teh word basically that far back from "as good" made me look at it in a different way.

Edit: And besides, all i said was give it access to MAB gear, how does that even remotely make is "basically as good" "as good" or even "just as good" as a blm? Or even putting a lot of focus on it! Rdm has tier IV nukes its its not even remotely as good as a blm in terms of nukes.

You say the BLM part of the job is the worst part, but by focusing it on that you're not adding to the game we don't already have. Wouldn't it be better to focus it on making it differnet from jobs we already have? I don't hear RDMs crying they don't nuke hard enough.

What do you mean "focus"? Why not have both? My suggestion is t fix whats there first and then add on top. Rdms don't cry about nukes, because rdms simply dont really bother that much anymore. But they have the gear to get decent nukes off. Rdms bring enough to the table that in a group setting most don't bother with nukes.

But yea, i'd love to see SCH get more unique spells, we are both asking for the same thing. I'm simply impying to ALSO fix its other problems. If its blm side is going to downright suck so bad, why even have it in the first place? Do you like an entire aspect of a job being crap?

[Howard Roark]

This reeks of deliciousness.. very excited for the new WAR ability. I'd pretty much resigned myself to the realization that they really can't tweak WAR without making it retarded, but I think something that will let me bonertimetank could be very fun.

The 100-tp mini Make Yo' Sushi sounds awesome.

And PLD Dread Spikes! Zom!

please tell me u made that up and no one actually says that

[Aquilla]

SCH controlling weather is the closest thing to Geomancer FFXI is ever going to see. Less "omg geomancer", more "how to fix SCH".

Storm spells suck, pretty much no one cares about weather effects outside of BLMs trying to out-peen each other. SCH is not only without an immediately desirable buff for mages, but a unique buff for melees. Hell, any buff for melees.

Regain obviously would be one solution, but unique spells for things like Attack (like Saber, but castable on others), Accuracy, and Crit Rate would make SCH desirable.

For mages, something like Cure for MP. Since nearly all methods of MP regeneration are gradual, this makes SCH stand out

Remove the stupid spell restrictions from the stratagems, and make white magic enfeebles exempt from the Dark Arts casting penalty. And of course, add Blink/Stoneskin.

Imma agree with this. Forget making sch like any existing mage job; we have blms and rdms and whms. Give it more unique spells, and the stratagem timer thing is simply retarded.

There's potential; just like a DoT spell for every element, you could give it a buff for every element, and have it follow the quasi-logic that avatars and rings follow -- fire for str, ice for int, etc.

The stratagem timer... er... _._; pointless imho. I don't see how it would break the game to let me use my stratagems,instead of restricting me to one every 4 minutes.

Dancer comes with oodles of nifty and new abilities, Sch feels like a watered down rdm.

[Kkel]

As someone who's never played any Final Fantasy games other than X and XI, i'd love for someone to explain why everyone has a huge hard on for Geomancer.

Did i miss an interview years ago where SE said that they were adding GEO to FFXI and it was going to be amazing? Is there some secret book or website that outlines what the job would do in terms of FFXI and everyone is just gleefully waiting around for it to be dropped into the game?

[Kyreth]

You do know there's a perfectly good scholar discussion in the WoTG section, right?

Right. Now then.

Scholar is there because Geomancer will never be. Scholar needs refinement. We got that. Let's take it to a good place and discuss fixes there before a perfectly good :elmer: thread becomes a steaming pile of shitty drama, K? Ditto Dancer stuff, though IMHO they're in better shape than Scholars, who even now have some modestly awesome tricks and can make a respectable subjob for WHM (but should stand on their own as a main, too.).

[LD]

People want GEO for a couple reasons, the most practical of which is its MP-less nuking. The other and more important one is that everyone wants to be a Native American. Be rockin' that headdress, son.

Scholar currently has nothing that is actually Geomancy. The -storm spells, like all over forms of magic, force an elemental effect into existence. Elemental magic may as well be Geomancy, but it isn't. Why? Geomancer's JP name is Feng Shui Master. Feng Shui is the art of altering and directing the energy in your environment. Elemental magic may be affected by weather, but it can be manifested in any environment. The -storm spells do not alter or draw from your environment, they draw from your magic to change the way a single person or group's spells act in conjunction with the environment (double weather will beat out a -storm of the same element) and to sometimes go against it.

As long as all of that is true, -storm spells aren't Geomancy and Geomancer is still possible.

For the record, I was just clarifying the nature of Geomancy when this SCH tip somehow started in response to it, so PFFT Jog on.

[Khamsin]

People want GEO for a couple reasons, the most practical of which is its MP-less nuking. The other and more important one is that everyone wants to be a Native American. Be rockin' that headdress, son.

Scholar currently has nothing that is actually Geomancy. The -storm spells, like all over forms of magic, force an elemental effect into existence. Elemental magic may as well be Geomancy, but it isn't. Why? Geomancer's JP name is Feng Shui Master. Feng Shui is the art of altering and directing the energy in your environment. Elemental magic may be affected by weather, but it can be manifested in any environment. The -storm spells do not alter or draw from your environment, they draw from your magic to change the way a single person or group's spells act in conjunction with the environment (double weather will beat out a -storm of the same element) and to sometimes go against it.

As long as all of that is true, -storm spells aren't Geomancy and Geomancer is still possible.

For the record, I was just clarifying the nature of Geomancy when this SCH tip somehow started in response to it, so PFFT Jog on.

Since when did Geomancers wear headdresses? They wear a snowsuit!

[LD]

Fuck Yo' Santa Suit...

[Gilthas]

Though Repose was great and getting new teleport spells will be nifty, the best thing they could give WHMs would be AoE status cure spells, Divine Veil on a 10 minute timer is retarded. Hell, give SCHs single target na spells and give WHM ga ones.

The new WAR job ability doesn't sound too great to me, personally I consider the problem with WAR tanking being the lack of as many hate tools as PLDs and NINs get and damage reduction/MP conservation capabilities on par with what PLDs and NINs get. While the JA might be good for hate gaining, it doesn't sound like it'll help in the MP management department.

I don't understand why some people think that SCH AF is going to save the job. I remember when BLU/COR/PUP were waiting for their AF, and people kept speculating that it would be made of awesome. In the end we just got pretty much what all the other jobs got, AF that ranged from useful pieces to crap. We'll probably see a few elemental skill here, a few enfeebling skill there, some INT here, some MND over there, but nothing that'll pull SCH from the gutter it was dumped in. They really need to adjust Stratagem timers imo, there's practically no point in them having charges. And although I liked the example someone posted of giving them Steel so they can buff melee, SE wants to make this a mage buffing job, and from the point of view of exp parties, this raises the problem that the job that benefits the most from the magely buffs SCHs provide is also the less desired mage job in exp parties.

EDIT: The idea someone posted of making the level 40ish AF a new grimoire would be great, but I don't think SE is that nice.

[Gergall]

Before the release, it was said that defeating monsters in the past could have some affect on the present. Could you give us an example, or some kind of hint?

There's nothing like extinction or anything in the game, but perhaps there's a type of monster you could have exist in the present?

You mean by neglecting a certain monster and not killing it?

No, more like if you defeat its natural enemy then... something like that.

A monster that is in the past but not in the present?

Yes. It will then survive the 20 year gap.

According to http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/altana/index.html:
Gnats are naturally eaten by Rafflesias
Peistes were overhunted by Beastmen
Ladybugs have an unknown cause of extinction

Of these 3 hints, the first one is our best lead. If we slaughter enough Rafflesias, Gnats should appear in the present. Wow, sounds exciting

If anyone is seriously going to try this, I would suggest that they start on a Sunday and kill them all week. It seems likely that this might be a hidden weekly tally of sorts.

[Edit because I fail at quoting, sorry ronin]

[LD]

Rafflesia died out because Gnats did, so what would we have to do to bring Rafflesia back?...

Gnats are said to multiply in the corpses of the dead, maybe if we die around them enough...

[ronin sparthos]

I didnt write that =P

Ladybugs have an unknown cause of extinction

They went extinct due to players from the future wiping them out.

No one would miss Gnats anyways, they are the second scourge of the devil behind those bloody Apkallu >.>;

[Sagacious Sundi]

With what little I've learned of The Far South and West, it could come from either, they both seem to have cultures that are very close to nature.

It gets kinda confusing, since items and such for both mention spirits, but the west is more closely associated to the dead (Totem Pole, the exorcists from the Dark Lily event), and the south is more "spirits of the earth".

EDIT: There are no non-pixies in the .dats for present areas, AFAIK.

[Gergall]

I beg your pardon, the present areas seem to be full of non-pixies from what I can see

[Infini]

Job Fixes/update id like to see

WAR: Already a good job tho an ability to counter more attacks will be nice. Natural Dual Wield would allow for more subjob options.
MNK: Make guard something thats worth something instead of being painfully slow to skillup.
WHM: Teleport Spells to wajoam woodlands and the past, Hastega, Cure VI, Curaga V, BANISHGA III, BANISH IV, HOLY II 269 Divine magic so stop making it so useless and Protect V and Shell V so casting on ppl outside pt isnt such a pain.
RDM: Slowga, Paralyga, Silencega, Dispelga, Graviga, Gravity II,Poisonga II, mebbe Break/Breakga for sleep resistant mobs and Diaga II for the likes of Campaign/ Besieged. Mebbe Raise II to help WHMs out.
BLM: TIER 5 NUKES, TIER IV AGA, NO ENMITY GAINED ON MBS, Decrease in MP cost of spells mebbe or higher Conserve MP proc rate , %MP regained on MBs, AUTO-REFRESH and Aspir II
THF: Make Treasure Hunter work more! D:
PLD: Phalanx and Reflect Would be nice. Invincible negating Magic Damage as well mebbe.
DRK: Takes alot of damage and hate mebbe endrain/enaspir spells and mebbe longer durnation for blood weapon or a new 2hr.
BST: Proper control and ability to select TP moves like SMN instead of some random pet WS.
BRD: More spells Minne V, Minuet V, Ballad III, Hoard Lullaby II would be nice.
RNG: More Accurate ways of knowing distance from a mob (ie. Official Distance Plugin)
SAM: 100% TP WS ability sounds nice.
NIN: JUBAKU: NI, more spells during the 50~60s why does nin stop learning spells after Hojo: Ni @48 till the SAN elemental spells @75? Make the Elemental Ninjutsu suck less mebbe more base damage to help NIN hold hate better NIN almost always seems to have issues holding hate compared to a PLD in exp pts.
DRG: More Control and abilities for the Wyvern mebbe enfeeb abilities or more significantly damaging Breath Attacks the higher in lvl it is.
SMN: More avatars! Make Elementals suck less/ make them more useful/controllable.
BLU: Moar Spells. Swift Blade <can i have it?:
COR: More Rolls, BETTER RANGED ACC and more clear use for Elemental Cards.
PUP: Come on give the poor PUP's at least 250 H2H skill or at least 240 for Asuran Fists 225 just fails royally even if the Puppet has A- skill on the appropiate frame. NEEDS more access to DD or melee gear at earlier levels. NO NATURAL MAGIC + NO NATURAL MP POOL FOR MAGE GEAR = FAIL!
DNC: Needs significanly more weapons selection at lower/mid lvls doesnt get access to as many as a THF. NATURAL DUAL WIELD too would help!
SCH: More DOT spells (Ie. Access to Dia III/IV/V Bio III/IV/V the BLM Dot Spells) BLINK STONESKIN AQUAVEIL. Mebbe Haste Slow too.

[Spider-Dan]

If it doesn't use MP and can't be silenced, it isn't magic. Just because it was on a list that was near or in the same menu doesn't make it magic. Since it operates differently from (I'll even allow you *normal*) magic, it shouldn't be given to a magician. BRDs don't use magic, they sing (play) songs. NINs don't use magic, they use tools (and Chakra, lol) to cast Ninjutsu.

And yet both of these things are affected by magical bonuses/penalties, don't work vs. magic shield, and can be silenced.

"Magic" is a very loose term in FFXI. Comparing to previous games does not exactly work; things like ninjutsu and songs that were job abilities in other FFs are certainly not job abilities in this one. If Geomancers were in FFXI, it's pretty damn likely that silence would stop them just like it stops all the the other "fuzzy magic."

[Not Kuno]

SCH: More DOT spells (Ie. Access to Dia III/IV/V Bio III/IV/V the BLM Dot Spells) BLINK STONESKIN AQUAVEIL. Mebbe Haste Slow too.

You forgot to add Dia1/2 and Bio1/2, seeing as how they don't have either of those as well. <_< I think the SCH thread in WotG has some really good ideas.

[Cream Soda]

Atm, the mnk kick thing sounds useless. A merited monk will have 15% kick rate(according to wiki), having to swap out of Byakko's to get it any higher (max of 21% via bahamut's hose). Unless they increase the frequency of the kicks and not just the power of them, it does not seem worth it at all. Also slowing down the speed of punches will also be a slow down in the speed of kicks (not the ratio but the speed). Punches and kicks are in the same attack round as in an attack and a double attack. So if you increase your delay on punches, you're going to be increasing kick delay as well.

[LD]

If it doesn't use MP and can't be silenced, it isn't magic. Just because it was on a list that was near or in the same menu doesn't make it magic. Since it operates differently from (I'll even allow you *normal*) magic, it shouldn't be given to a magician. BRDs don't use magic, they sing (play) songs. NINs don't use magic, they use tools (and Chakra, lol) to cast Ninjutsu.

And yet both of these things are affected by magical bonuses/penalties, don't work vs. magic shield, and can be silenced.

"Magic" is a very loose term in FFXI. Comparing to previous games does not exactly work; things like ninjutsu and songs that were job abilities in other FFs are certainly not job abilities in this one. If Geomancers were in FFXI, it's pretty damn likely that silence would stop them just like it stops all the the other "fuzzy magic."

Songs could always be silenced. Songs and Ninjutsu being stopped by silence makes sense, because they are arts being performed by the user in a way that makes it susceptible to silence (Singing/lolChakra comes through the mouth). BPs are not silencable once the Avatar is out, because the command is given differently and the ability's source is not the SMN. It would seem to be pretty damn likely that if you silence a SMN, they couldn't command their avatar, but that's obviously not the case. Scholar's Grimoires are given astral properties to disappear and reappear, but they are still summonable as a JA when silenced (though you wouldn't be making much use of it if you were silenced). The same could be applied to Geomancy, since it is not coming directly from the user. It has always been a job that drew its power directly from its environment (with no apparent vocal command).

Yes, a lot of the non-traditional magic has had some liberties taken with it, but so has the traditional magic, and even the Fuzzy Magic has rules. Being affected by some magical bonuses and penalties is a common thing for many non-magical abilities in FF, but this doesn't disprove the point that Geomancy is, in fact, not magic. For God's sake, Chi Blast and Mijin Gakure are also affected by the HNM magic resistance penalty, are you going to tell me those are magic too?

[Zilong]

Clearly the only solution is to use hand seal to do ninjutsu.