Information on New and Existing Jobs

[Tomino]

SMN: Alexander. Dramatically lower perp cost on elementals. They should be cheaper than avatars.

i read many looks obsessed by Alexander as an avatar but i still dont get why. what could it possibly add to the SMN job? a light-based 2H, a tank for SMN solo (yeuck) or something that doesnt move and just shoots lazers?
I think but SMN really needs now is something to keep with the fast paced action that's a result of new events + merited melees. right now is almost impossible to summon+assault+BP before the mob dies.

So give us Odin or any other avatar who's on a perp.cost like Fenrir, without any strong damage BP but with a considerably higher melee DoT so i can still contribute aside from cure spamming melees.
This, and the nice auto-refresh from spirits maybe

[ronin sparthos]

On the subject of Bst: Bst should have a "handling" skill that determines the level of their pet. Make every 2.5 or 3 skill levels of the handling skill equal one raw level of the bst. Therefore, a 75 bst will be carting around a level 71-73 mob, which could be able to do a good bit of damage not only in soloing, but in HNM as well. The bst handling skill could be increased through a combination of successful attacks by the pet, and through the use of abilities such as (naturally) call beast, sic, heel, and through giving the beast restorative items. The "handling" skill should also affect the charm rate and potency of the pet.

Regarding Beastmaster:

It could break down into families, everytime you successfully charm/use a certain type of monster of a certain family-type you get 'handling skills' which then will spill over into whenever you call your 'Familiar' pet. Depending on your family skill, when you call that Courier Carrie, Homonculus or Lifedrinker Lars etc your handling skill will determine what level it spawns, HQs favoring the high end of your skill, NQs favoring the low end of your skill. So you'd have a situation where you'd still want HQs over NQs and still would be limited on what level you can call the pets by equip levels.

On top of that BST would be able to use the TP they gain in battle not only for weaponskills but also to relay orders to their pets. TP cost for pet abilities would take away from the beastmaster -and- pets TP totals with skill determining what you can order your pet to do. More feral pets will do what they want, using TP at will but as you climbed the ladder the pets would save TP until you ordered them do something with it. (Think Blood Pacts)

To draw a line between jugpets and wild pets, perhaps using a HQ jug will high handling skill could allow a BST to deliver even more advanced orders to a pet on top of the options of standard TP moves. (Magic) BCNM monsters can do it, and most monster family types have casting animations so why not? It would help to make BST more of a well-rounded job that could do a little of everything on top of soloing. Mainly adding a shitload more jugpets would help, also special jugpets that mimic families that BSTs could normally not charm would help out the job.

[Kenji]

Corsair having TH1 and Pillage as a steal clone would do nothing to THF. THF would still be the king of its trade, with corsair getting slightly more fleshed out.

Possibly. I'd like to hear from some COR's and THF's and see how they feel, before adding it.

THF being able to set traps (traps that obviously would be like nin tools) is an idea ive always thought about, use one and after a set amount of time they go off. Being able to set them in the kiting path of a monster would help a THF to get TP instead of chasing after the monster. Apply a reasonable recast timer and requirements to have the certain tool in your inventory.

Now that you've explained it better, I see what you're getting at. It does sound like an interesting idea. If other people like it, we can add it to the list.

RNG aiming for certain spots could double as an enfeeble, put all the 'Aims' on a single timer (1min?) and allow them to be subject to resists/misses etc. TP gained applies based on the weapon being used/ammo.

I like this as well, which is why I added it. Only thing is, a long while back, I had the "aim" abilities on the "engineer/gunner" type job I had made up. If SE is thinking of adding another ranged class like this, they may be saving it for them.

DRK has such high elemental skill for a non mage and not a damned thing to do with it. Tier 3s allow drk to fallback and do something if meleeing isnt gonna cut it.

I agree as well. Their MP pools aren't used for much besides drain and aspir nowadays. Perhaps buffing their spells, will allow us to nerf their KC usage

BST - Uncapping all jugpets at the cost of having to 'skillup' them to get your pets to level 75 would give BST the edge it needs to be a party member on top of being a capable soloer. Start the level at the level you get the jugpet and work your skill up to 75. Food and drinks you can give to your pet to increase its stats much like a player should apply. Convert player TP -> mob TP move allows you to control your pet to an extent and focus the most desirable TP move on an enemy or on allies. (AoE Rhino Guard, Bubble Curtain etc)

A simpler solution is to just have the pet equal in level to the BST. And at the least, they need a variety of jug pets to call forth, to match the situation.

NIN - JA that increases Evasion at the cost of Defense on top of the Ni/San suggestions. Ninja lacks any JA between Mijin and Sange, it desperately needs something. Perhaps on top of the EVA buff a JA that increases ranged accuracy/attack damage while using a throwing weapon.

the former is interesting, and I'll agree NIN needs another JA. However, the latter would have all RNG/NIN's salivating, unless it's above 37.

Maybe make BRDs able to put a 3rd song on party members using a new instrument type, but restrict it to certain types of songs. For example, take things like Carols, Paeons n' such that would rarely be used in lieu of stronger offensive songs, and let them be a 3rd active song if used with that new instrument type.

Which is why I mentioned additional instruments, which could have different effects, ie:

2 song effects from flute or harp
1 additional song from a guitar (mostly gives bonuses to defensive/damage reducing songs)
1 additional song from a trumpet (mostly gives bonuses to offensive/damage enhancing songs)

En-II like that have long been discussed on RDM boards. Break would be nice too. Personally I think RDM changes should be more along the lines of things that do little or nothing for the RDM themselves, and only really do much if the RDM is partied.
Maybe something like a 225 WS (since we don't get one otherwise) that consumes TP and MP to restore HP/MP of surrounding party members equal to the TP spent...but costs the same in MP (or maybe up to 300HP/150MP for 150MP cost). It'd be pointless solo, but possibly quite nice to have in a small group situation.
A SCH-like JA to make the next Enhancing spell AoE for a greater MP cost would be a nice addition as well, and again pointless to the solo RDM.

Not sure about the SCH-like JA, but I like the idea for the former. How about this? Convert II 5 min cooldown - Converts all the RDM's TP into MP. With Enspells II that are also debuffing the mob, this ensures that an RDM doesn't need to rest as much.

i read many looks obsessed by Alexander as an avatar but i still dont get why. what could it possibly add to the SMN job? a light-based 2H, a tank for SMN solo (yeuck) or something that doesnt move and just shoots lazers?

Let me put down the BP list I made for him, based on his abilities ingame:

Lv1 Divine Spear - Single target damage and attack down
Lv10 Banish II - Single target Light damage, can be MB'ed
Lv27 Radiant Sacrament - targeted AoE physical damage and magic defense down
Lv37 Void of Repentance - single target Terror effect for a few seconds
Lv51 Gospel of the Lost - Single target large heal
Lv65 Mega Holy - large AoE Light damage, can be MB'ed
Lv75 Perfect Defense - AoE Party immunity to melee, magic, or ranged for 30 seconds(which one you get is random)
Astral Flow - Divine Judgment - Massive AoE light damage

Can seem kinda fun, especially the last one. And also because he would be a 2nd light element avatar, to balance out the 2 dark ones we have.

[Khamsin]

PUP: I'm off-base, PUP itself needs upgrade. Maybe C+ or B- h2h? Better gear choices?

A skill would be nice. And before anyone starts complaining about overpowered MNKs with pets, think about who you REALLY think would win the parse: a PUP, as-is, but with A H2H skill, or a MNK. Hell, as it is, a completely naked MNK outparses a well-geared PUP. Giving PUPs A H2H skill, but otherwise leaving their gear and abilities alone (no PUP Black Belts, or giving them MNK ability/traits, etc.) would bring them up, but not overpower them more than a MNK is. Anyone who thinks it would needs to just think for a second on how a parse like that would turn out versus a real MNK.

And for the record, I have a ridill WAR, I have a SMN, I have a RDM, I'm not advocating PUP improvements because I need to feel useful or have a merit job or HNM job, I've got all that covered. I don't think PUP should be buffed to the point of being the next omgbandwagon job. I levelled PUP just for the fun of it. It'd just be more fun if it were actually comparable to other DDs and able to be taken seriously.

[Vhess]

Well, since we seem to be just throwing out job ideas here, I would like to see Category III merits. The way I would do it is to have a large number of powerful merit options available that are only unlocked by having specific combinations of Category I and II merits at a certain level. For example, let's say on BLU you had 5 merits in Magic Accuracy and 5 merits in Monster Correlation. This might unlock a category three meritable group of magic based spells (powerful damage or enfeebles) that work only on specific mob types. Or, say you max out Store TP and Shikikoyo on SAM, you might unlock an ability that allows you to give a Store TP buff to a pt member for 5 min.

I would have like 8 category III merits for each job but with the ability to only have 2 unlocked at a time based on how your other merits are allocated. If the category III abilities were powerful enough, this might lead to some diversification, as players would be able to customize their characters to fit their playstyle while also providing uses for some of the merits that currently nobody uses for anything. If some of those previously useless categories enhanced a great new ability that they also unlocked, it might lead to less cookie cutter and more options.

[Isiolia]

Personally I'd rather see more changes in the 50-60 level ranges. Many jobs are rather dry between getting a lot of key stuff at/around 60 and hitting 75 for all your endgame gear and merits.

[Lamente]

As a SMN I don't really give a shit about a new avatar so much. Sure, I'll take it, but I'd much rather have fundamental job enhancements. The fact is, we don't *need* any new avatars. As far as I'm concerned, a new avatar is just to appease the SMNs while every other job gets a boost in usefulness. They know that most people are too stupid to realize that all they've been given is a new toy.

What they really need to do is something on the same scale that made summoning magic skill (barely) useful, and split the blood pact timer into buffs and attacks. Both of which were massive no-brainers that should have been implemented from the start. I'm still amazed that they let an almost completely useless skill sit around in the game for years. Add auras to avatars that boost stats of party members while they are present, so they at least have a moderately good reason to drain the shit out of your MP. More job abilities, maybe even SMN exclusive spells that aren't avatars, so we don't have to be our support job 90% of the time and have something to do other than blood pacts.

I'm glad we're getting the spirit MP thingy, I just hope it isn't a joke like our group 2 merits were.

[Khamsin]

I just find it funny that they're using elemental spirits to refresh our MP, considering that they're the biggest drain on it.

[Valacirca]

Corsair having TH1 and Pillage as a steal clone would do nothing to THF. THF would still be the king of its trade, with corsair getting slightly more fleshed out.

Aside from fitting the pirate image of Corsair, these additions would be pretty pointless honestly. Any job can have those things by subbing THF (though you sure as hell wouldn't want a COR to). Steal is only beneficial to the player, so it adds nothing in terms of appealing to other players, but truthfully there aren't even a ton of things worth stealing anyway. There's Dynamis currency, but you need a bunch of +steal gear to get decent results with that. Anything else you might want to steal you probably wouldn't encounter in a party or any other kind of group setting, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to farm on COR as its the absolute worst soloer in the game, which means TH1 would be pretty useless for COR as well. For grouped situations in which you want Treasure Hunter you'd likely have a THF anyway, making an extra player with TH1 kind of moot. Even without a THF, someone else could just sub THF if you really wanted the extra help. :/

As both a COR and a THF, this idea just has zero appeal to me. You're taking things every other job already has access to through /THF and putting them on a job which has no use for them. Truthfully, I'm not sure if there's much else I would want added to the job depending on how effective the stored Quick Draw thing and new rolls turn out to be; Corsair is a pretty well balanced job after all the updates its seen since its release. A second tier of Quick Draw shots is something I've seen tossed around a few times before, and might be kind of nice depending on the implementation, though with the upcoming changes to Quick Draw I'm unsure how feasible that is.

[Midnitelouie]

Corsair having TH1 and Pillage as a steal clone would do nothing to THF. THF would still be the king of its trade, with corsair getting slightly more fleshed out.

Possibly. I'd like to hear from some COR's and THF's and see how they feel, before adding it.

As a 75 COR...read this and went...meh. Wuold the stats and drop rates from a TH1 be so beneficial? If you're going to be looking for a TH stat anyway, wouldn't it be preferable to find a THF in the first place?

Can't say that I'm against the idea per se, but would not look forward to the "Oh look, a bard with a gun that can get us more loot!"

[Kenji]

A skill would be nice. And before anyone starts complaining about overpowered MNKs with pets, think about who you REALLY think would win the parse: a PUP, as-is, but with A H2H skill, or a MNK. Hell, as it is, a completely naked MNK outparses a well-geared PUP. Giving PUPs A H2H skill, but otherwise leaving their gear and abilities alone (no PUP Black Belts, or giving them MNK ability/traits, etc.) would bring them up, but not overpower them more than a MNK is. Anyone who thinks it would needs to just think for a second on how a parse like that would turn out versus a real MNK.

You've convinced me. I'd say A- or B+ skill as a nice compromise. There should another good job that does h2h, and would allow the PUP to contribute if they don't have their puppet out.

As a SMN I don't really give a shit about a new avatar so much. Sure, I'll take it, but I'd much rather have fundamental job enhancements. The fact is, we don't *need* any new avatars. As far as I'm concerned, a new avatar is just to appease the SMNs while every other job gets a boost in usefulness. They know that most people are too stupid to realize that all they've been given is a new toy.

What they really need to do is something on the same scale that made summoning magic skill (barely) useful, and split the blood pact timer into buffs and attacks. Both of which were massive no-brainers that should have been implemented from the start. I'm still amazed that they let an almost completely useless skill sit around in the game for years. Add auras to avatars that boost stats of party members while they are present, so they at least have a moderately good reason to drain the shit out of your MP. More job abilities, maybe even SMN exclusive spells that aren't avatars, so we don't have to be our support job 90% of the time and have something to do other than blood pacts.

I'm glad we're getting the spirit MP thingy, I just hope it isn't a joke like our group 2 merits were.

I will admit, that part of wanting Alexander is a base "shiny new toy" feeling. But we do need more adjustments at base. I'm not sure about spells, but your aura idea is interesting. Hadn't heard that before. Maybe....

Carbuncle - HP bonus
Diablos - MP bonus
Ifrit - Strength bonus to party while he's out
Fenrir - Dex bonus
Titan - VIT Bonus
Ramuh INT bonus
Leviathan - MND bonus
Garuda - AGI bonus
Shiva - CHR bonus

At the very least, we need a fix so that these avatars are worth the mp to leave out. TP doesn't cut it yet.

[BRP]

Carbuncle - HP bonus
Diablos - MP bonus
Ifrit - Strength bonus to party while he's out
Fenrir - Dex bonus
Titan - VIT Bonus
Ramuh INT bonus
Leviathan - MND bonus
Garuda - AGI bonus
Shiva - CHR bonus

It would be:

Ramuh - DEX
Shiva - INT
Carbuncle - CHR (if anything)


I think Call Wyvern and Activate should be on a 5:00 timer or similar. It would be nice in many areas of game, especially things like PvP. That kind of puts the rest the whole "problem when PUP doesn't have his auto out".

Btw, Corsairs weren't the whole "Pillaging" type of pirates. They have their own lore and background, they aren't just "PIRATES LOL".

[evilpaul]

I'd kind of like an Attack Up JA for SMN pets (something that doesn't hose Def like Berserk) or maybe Counter.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Fenrir would make more sense for CHR, since he howls, growls, roars, cries (faggy wolf*) and stuff. Plus, Carby heals and has Auto-Regen or something (HP).

*I know it's not that kind of cry, but it looked weird typing it.

[Jones]

On Puppetmaster, I think four things should be implemented to bring the job up to par in usuability with everything else.

1. H2H skill up to B. Let MNKs keep the precious A skill all to their own. As Khamsin pointed out, even A skill on PUP wouldn't be a threat to MNKs, let alone B. Trust me, PUPs won't be eating meat at meritpos with the gear we have anytime soon.

2. Break up Soulsoother, Spiritreaver, Stormwaker and Harlequin's casting into separate hidden timers. One for Enfeebling, one for Healing, one for Dark, one for Elemental, etc. Keep the individual timers at ~25 secs like they are, but allow the Automation to cast spells from separate groups back-to-back. Much like SMN, a single spell timer is a ridiculous restriction on the Automation and should have been designed with separate timers from the start. (And improving the Soulsoother's AI to allow a Cure-not5 if you don't need the Cure V, similar to how the Spiritreaver will use a Tier-not4 nuke to kill a target if the lower tier gets the job done.)

3. Buffing the VE frame's DEF to 450-500 at 75 instead of the taru-mage ~200 it is now. Give the guy a defensive purpose in the game. I'd also suggest adding MDB traits to the frame, to give us a solid choice in rough AoE situations. Give it a couple of levels in Shield Mastery for good measure too. I doubt Automations will ever be tanking anything big, but I'd like something to throw at a mob that can occupy it for long enough to regroup.

4. Adding a new Frame/Head that uses 2H and has Double Attack JT and some decent (and multi-hit) WS. It should have moderate DEF, ~300-350 at 75 and decent attack of 450ish. This frame (along with a Convert Maneuvers to TP attachement) would give us a solid offensive choice besides the Sharpshot Frame.

These by no means would break the game, nor make PUP a bandwagon job. It would however add to PUPs diversity, strengths, and give us more of a role in end-game. Currently for endgame, PUP is only only able to partially fill the role of whatever a group may lack. A well formed, geared and balanced group has no incentive to bring a PUP to an event as it stands right now.

[ronin sparthos]

Its not exactly something major, but more asthetical regarding giving COR something like Steal and Treasure Hunter 1. Its not something thats going to change the dynamic of the job but it wouldnt be a stretch ot just tack it on, hardly something primary but just an idea nonetheless.

I think Cat III merits should take a backseat to maybe unlocking certain abilities through questing or simply giving jobs more during 50-70 since thats usually where jobs lack any JAs or special abilities. What ever happened to obtaining things through some good old fashioned questing?

Summoner should have some more avatar-specific gear, like that NM Lamies drop in Arrapago Reef and the ever-popular Carbuncles Mitts. I think what hurts summoner the most is the severe lack of Blood Pacts with actual functional uses for a majority of the levels pre-endgame pacts. Thunderspark, Double Slap, Earthen Ward, Aerial Armor are all nice, but theres a pretty big gap between the endgame pacts and the low level pacts. Pehaps if skillchains lowered perpetuation costs (SC element = element avatar perp-) for a set amount of time that summoner would have an easier time?

[Sagacious Sundi]

They did say they're descendants of the pirates, although I guess they still don't have any ability showing the whole seafaring aspect.

[Kenji]

Revised list, added some more of the popular ideas, removed some that weren't so popular. Keep the ideas coming, agree with what you like, and strike down what you don't! Remember, we want a decent list that has a couple of changes for each, so that we can mass-spam the same ideas to SE's suggestion box.

WAR: Waiting for counter idea from SE
MNK: Waiting to see the TP idea SE suggested; hoping it's a war for Monk to attack normally without the target generating TP from the hits
WHM: New Teleport Spells. Hastega. Holy 2. AoE status cures, or a 1-3 min Divine Veil seperate JA.
RDM: Break for a different type of stun that's earth element instead of thunder. En-spells II, that do damage and have a secondary enfeebling effect (ie, Enthunder II also has a random chance to stun. EnBlizzard has a random chance to paralyze); A TP -> MP convert JA
BLM: passive ability to return 25-50% MP on MB's
THF: PD should allow you to dodge ranged as well. Calculated Blows, lasts 3 mins, 5 min cooldown - Evasion is greatly lowered and chance of critical hits increased?
PLD: The reflect damage ability looks like a good idea. Invincible negating Magic Damage. Gaining MP from being hit?
DRK: endrain/enaspir spells. Blood weapon lasting 1 min and an accuracy increase? T3 nukes.
BST: Uncap all pets, reskin the current pets that look like normal mobs to more Courier Carrie unique styles. Some ability to use BST's TP to force pet to use a specific TP ability, and/or additional pet commands
BRD: Different instrument types. Let them play a guitar, or a trumpet or something. These different instruments would each allow an extra song to be placed on targets
RNG: I like the ability to tell specific distances, so it's easier to find the sweet spot. Aim skills: Legs = Gravity / Arm = Slow / Head = INT/MND down / Throat = Silence etc etc.
SAM: What's suggested by SE is fine. Hesitant to suggest any other improvements.
NIN: Jubaku:Ni/Hojo:San/Dokumori:San. Throwing-based weaponskills.
DRG: Wyvern BPs sound good, as suggested. JA Lancet - absorb some HP, MP, and TP? Penetration Passive trait - ignore some defense of target while equipped with a spear
SMN: Avatars need to be worthwhile while out, decreased perp or a party beneficial aura while out
BLU: Mighty Guard! Battery Charge? White Wind. 1000 needles improved so that it hits more often, just raise the MP cost to 400-500.
COR: A regain-like DNC roll? Needs a seafaring aspect... Resist Seasickness? +damage vs. aquans?
PUP: B+ H2H, Better gear choices (should wait on the hinted puppet changes before suggesting more, but I like yours, Jones)
DNC: Passive Auto-regain (gained at perhaps 65), that gives 1TP a tick, up to 100 TP. And/or a TP samba.
Dispelling Step, more status effect steps? Skadi and/or Homam gear?
SCH: Blink and stoneskin will be welcome. Aquaveil could be nice as well. Helixes need to tick more often and be stackable(1 per SCH). Weather spells need a shorter recast or longer duration. More charges for stratgems and/or get charges back faster. Other possible spells: Haste, Slow, Regain, T4 nukes.

[Sagacious Sundi]

I didn't mean the ability had to do with seafaring, just the name. The ability can do whatever the hell it wants.

[Lasareth]

Barlightra and bardarkra would be useful for whms, enlight and endark would be fun toys for rdm. I'm not really sure why they don't already have them