Information on New and Existing Jobs

[Eanae]

God damnit, I fucking knew they were going to implement the damage reflect for pld like this, that screws the hell out of Aegis.

Oh great, now I can reflect the 10-15 damage shield blocks I get on aegis, wooooooooooooooo.

Actually, the way I'm reading it, Aegis would be the best...

"Damage reduced by..."

Hit would have done 200, you take 50 with a block, you reflect 150 damage back to them. At least, that's what it looks like with the wording.

[ACEJester]

Wow, I am quite happy with SAM as it already is right now. The last couple of updates really helped clear out some wal-mart SAMs.

I am curious what the cool down would be on this ability though? Knowing SE: 20 mins for one ws.

[ronin sparthos]

Toss up between 10 or 20mins for that sam ability i bet... id be more worried about them lowering SC resist rates ~.~

[Neosutra]

God damnit, I fucking knew they were going to implement the damage reflect for pld like this, that screws the hell out of Aegis.

Oh great, now I can reflect the 10-15 damage shield blocks I get on aegis, wooooooooooooooo.

Actually, the way I'm reading it, Aegis would be the best...

"Damage reduced by..."

Hit would have done 200, you take 50 with a block, you reflect 150 damage back to them. At least, that's what it looks like with the wording.

I dont trust SE that much.

It will either be really short lasting time and cap out on hp, just reflect the damage you would have taken(fucking aegis), or it will have some other stupid side effect.

[Rheya]

I'm trying to imagine what a worthwhile magical melee boost to RDM would be in SE's eyes. The only thing that I can think of is Enstun. Of course there'd be a whole set of corresponding tier II enspells, but Enstun is the only one that I can think of as somewhat useful.

I'm torn. It sounds cool, but really it'd still be just a fun thing to play around with at the end of the day. Merit mobs die too quickly and aren't that dangerous that you'd really want Enstun. Even if you did want your RDM Enstunning your xp/merit mobs, their set up would have to be geared entirely towards landing enough hits to make the stun proc, and you'd be getting melee songs/rolls instead of Evokers/Ballad, so curing and support would become harder.

And a RDM would have a hard time landing hits on anything worth Enstunning.

Yep, I think I've managed to talk myself out of thinking that Enstun would be worthwhile outside of solo play or goofing around.

[LD]

I dont trust SE that much.

Then trust the English language. If you go back to the last time Elmer translated something like this, you'll find the wording is practically the same. So it will reflect back the damage you would have taken if you hadn't blocked, meaning Aegis will still be the best shield, unless you want to say Elmer doesn't know what he's talking about...

As far as hate retention goes, this isn't going to do a lot, since it will most likely be a spikes effect, and those don't give hate. However, this will make Sword/Shield better for damage, so it can be more like NIN in its ability to tank effectively and deal damage at the same time.

[Lordender]

I really like how they hint at /SCH possibly getting blink and stoneskin, that would make me use /sch a hell of a lot more on blm.

New DRK spells i'm not too sure what to look forward to, i'm not a total fan of dreadspikes, I think they could lower the mp cost and shorten the casting time but its better than nothing.

New blm spells to warp people to their past city where they signed up is a nice little time saver.

New blu spells, tbh only looking forward to asuran claws unless the new status effect spells shown in the dats are proven to be very very potent which i'm doubting.

[Toxictaru]

Its been said, but seriously, what the fuck is this Monk bullshit? They list changes for, what, 16 jobs, and Monk outright makes no fucking sense. People are making suggestions about what it COULD be, but so far, none of it seems attractive. What SE SHOULD have done is given an increase to guard proc rate, and MAYBE an increase to counter/kick rate (beyond the bullshit 5% merits give you). It just seems like once again monk is getting shit on (although, to be fair, Invigorate was pretty badass).

SCH needs blink and stoneskin, end of story. I've done BLM/SCH and I've felt less productive because I was too afraid of taking damage while not having anything to keep me alive. And BLM/SCH is outright setup for damage, so pulling hate is that much easier. SCH main would likely benefit most from /BLM, but once again, lack of damage mitigation forces people to use /WHM or /RDM.

Warrior can already tank, when geared up to tank. It just needs people to stop being such whiny bitches about tanking for it to be shown effective. A friend of mine is currently taking WAR up as WAR/MNK using a shield, and through to the 60s he is doing pretty good.

Dancer is good, dancer is great, dancer is never going to make people start EXPing in smaller parties on T-VT mobs. Its just not going to happen. People get to level whatever (10 or 20) and its 6-manning to 75, end of story. SE is stupid to think that even they can change the mindsets of the player-base. Want to make it useful as a sub? Give it 2 finishing moves instead of one, problem solved. As it stands, I got DNC to 37 simply to sub for solo, but its useless to me for EVERYTHING else. Best use I've found for it so far is in Campaign and soloing some skillup/seals.

BLM and WHM stuff is bland. Its nothing game-breaking like some of the other changes could potentially be. Stop giving BLM the bullshit short end of the stick. Less resistance to skillchains? Who the fuck cares when the mobs you're skillchaining still reflect the damn magic back at you? Warp spells to the past are neat, but its not fixing the job. BLM has sadly been relegated to solo duty and it will remain there, which makes me sad ; ;

Hopefully that Ninja hate lowering deal will be available when its required: pre-Ni. Ichi-only tanking is a pain in the ass, and the ability would make it easier. After Ni, its somewhat pointless. However, SE probably won't want to give it to other jobs, so I'm guessing level 40. Sneak ninjutsu = about damn time.

Rest of the stuff? Meh, its either not worth talking about or its straightforward and kinda neat.

[ACEJester]

Its been said, but seriously, what the fuck is this Monk bullshit? They list changes for, what, 16 jobs, and Monk outright makes no fucking sense. People are making suggestions about what it COULD be, but so far, none of it seems attractive. What SE SHOULD have done is given an increase to guard proc rate, and MAYBE an increase to counter/kick rate (beyond the bullshit 5% merits give you). It just seems like once again monk is getting shit on (although, to be fair, Invigorate was pretty badass).

I think one the biggest problems for MNK is that they have trouble fitting well into the HNM scene these days (especially since most LSs don't hardly Chi Blast anymore). They do poor damage compared to most other jobs on HNMs, and they feed the monster more tp then others as well.

One possible [partial] fix to this would be to change H2H so that they're more potent against monsters with higher def (or simply ignore a certain % of the monsters def). Another would be to bump up their natural subtble blow beyond the cap that other jobs have. However, even with any future changes, I doubt people would pick MNK over a SAM or DRK in HNM situations.

I can dream though.

[spooky]

And woo-boy more warps for BLM <_< I am so excited.

Do you think Spooky feels the same way to?

Yay /SCH '-'*

[Akashimo]

Its been said, but seriously, what the fuck is this Monk bullshit? They list changes for, what, 16 jobs, and Monk outright makes no fucking sense. People are making suggestions about what it COULD be, but so far, none of it seems attractive. What SE SHOULD have done is given an increase to guard proc rate, and MAYBE an increase to counter/kick rate (beyond the bullshit 5% merits give you). It just seems like once again monk is getting shit on (although, to be fair, Invigorate was pretty badass).

Yar, completely agree, though I'm 1 level away from being able to merit on monk ; ;

Warrior can already tank, when geared up to tank. It just needs people to stop being such whiny bitches about tanking for it to be shown effective. A friend of mine is currently taking WAR up as WAR/MNK using a shield, and through to the 60s he is doing pretty good.

Had a meripo with a war/mnk friend tanking with GA. Came close to parring with a pld on dmg taken cause of his high countering rate. Sky weapon camp ftw! Yeah >_> Wars really need to, they get almost every good piece of DD gear. The melee version of princess bards!

BLM and WHM stuff is bland. Its nothing game-breaking like some of the other changes could potentially be. Stop giving BLM the bullshit short end of the stick. Less resistance to skillchains? Who the fuck cares when the mobs you're skillchaining still reflect the damn magic back at you? Warp spells to the past are neat, but its not fixing the job. BLM has sadly been relegated to solo duty and it will remain there, which makes me sad ; ;

QFT

Rest of the stuff? Meh, its either not worth talking about or its straightforward and kinda neat.

Be nice if THF was on Rest of the stuff T_T;

[LD]

Eh...for the record, WHM, THF, BST, & RNG would do well not to expect anything else for the remainder of this expansion cycle. Repose, Accomplice, Snarl, and Velocity Shot. They came out the first day. Don't even need the expansion.

As for BLM, a LOT of damage can be lost in a resisted Skill Chain. Giving BLM the ability to lower a SC's resist rate could give it enough utility to be more widely accepted in something other than manaburn. The job has been damn near required for many events for pretty much the entirety of this game. It's stale, fine, we get it, but unlike the other stale jobs, its never been left wanting for something to do.

...and Penance is the good MNK G2. You can use it everywhere. Invigorate has its limits, it's overwritten by Regen1, ffs (Invigorate ticks are only slightly weaker than Regen 2.)

[Toxictaru]

Its been said, but seriously, what the fuck is this Monk bullshit? They list changes for, what, 16 jobs, and Monk outright makes no fucking sense. People are making suggestions about what it COULD be, but so far, none of it seems attractive. What SE SHOULD have done is given an increase to guard proc rate, and MAYBE an increase to counter/kick rate (beyond the bullshit 5% merits give you). It just seems like once again monk is getting shit on (although, to be fair, Invigorate was pretty badass).

I think one the biggest problems for MNK is that they have trouble fitting well into the HNM scene these days (especially since most LSs don't hardly Chi Blast anymore). They do poor damage compared to most other jobs on HNMs, and they feed the monster more tp then others as well.

One possible [partial] fix to this would be to change H2H so that they're more potent against monsters with higher def (or simply ignore a certain % of the monsters def). Another would be to bump up their natural subtble blow beyond the cap that other jobs have. However, even with any future changes, I doubt people would pick MNK over a SAM or DRK in HNM situations.

I can dream though.

That'd be nice :D I was originally a BLM, but I leveled melee because it was a bigger draw for me, and Monk was my first. I loved it to death, but I couldn't DO anything with it because I can't melee HNM.... Gearing up BLM made me feel crappy and I was less enthusiastic about camping stuff after I had monk leveled. SOOO I leveled NIN which might be more useful.... But dammit, I wanna do more stuff on Monk (even though I'm starting to fall for NIN).

BLM is desired for more events, but the job isn't nearly as accessible as it used to be. I remember when I was leveling BLM in the jungles and trying to explain to a level 25 WAR who'd soloed that far how skillchains worked (when I myself was on my very first job) and being really amused. I remember that I actually got EXP parties on BLM, and I learned how to magic burst crap. BLMs these days are being scolded for NOT knowing how, because they've spent so long soloing that its never been something they do. Oh, and lets not forget how many people don't know how to SC in the first place because they've spent so much time fucking around with birds that have no HP (I remember a warrior who was confused because she didn't understand why her Rampage wasn't opening Light). SEs attempt at doing something with skillchains is good for nostalgia more than anything, because the unfortunate truth is that melees don't know how to SC, and BLMs don't know how to burst them.

As for the other stuff? Eh. The jobs that weren't mentioned in elmers OP were already given their proposed new stuff (except for WHM, they're getting more). SE released basically this same list back during fan fest, and they gave THF and RNG their new things (Accomplice and Velocity Shot), its not that they've been omitted, its that they've already been taken care of in this round of updates.

[Lexa]

I thought another way for MNKs to prevent mobs from gaining TP sounded neat... :/

[Toxictaru]

Better question, why can't Monks merit Subtle Blow?

[Lexa]

Better question, why can't Monks merit Subtle Blow?

God, Subtle Blow merits would be sexah as hell. Whose SE representative's ass do we have to kiss to make this happen? Sundi?

[Toxictaru]

Better question, why can't Monks merit Subtle Blow?

God, Subtle Blow merits would be sexah as hell. Whose SE representative's ass do we have to kiss to make this happen? Sundi?

I mean, Monk benefits at least as much from Subtle Blow as NIN, potentially more. Only problem is that it'd be Cat1, and I refuse to drop my counter and kick merits. Maybe Subtle Blow should just outright be a general merit category.

[LD]

Cuz we don't want to. ._.
Ninjas barely want to.

Really, it's because Subtle Blow, in and of itself, does very little in situations where there is someone else beating on the mob and they don't also have a fair amount of it. For sure it does something, but even the cap is nowhere near as effecient as a nuke. I can understand why Ninja got more (for what it's worth.) First of all, MNK gets more SB in gear, potentially eclipsing a NIN with full SB merits and as much gear as they could find (however, only 3 of those are really any good, and Rajas isn't ideal as far as the community is concerned. Good, not great). Second, its more appropriate for NIN. Not only is it marked as a stealthy job, but as a tank, it wants the enemy to WS less.

If the problem of TP gain were mitigated to the point that MNK's TP to damage ratio were comparable to BLM, MNK's value in HNM would come down to whether or not its ability to deal good physical DOT is still relevant in the face of the massive spike damage of DRK and SAM and the tactics that go along with them.

[Xno Kappa]

Kinda sweet RDM is finally getting something specific besides lolwisegear and merits that should've been natural spells, even if it is something to just fuck around with solo. BLU spells seem kinda redundant from what I've seen in the dats unless they inflict some serious status ailment that people care about.

[Toxictaru]

Cuz we don't want to. ._.
Ninjas barely want to.

Really, it's because Subtle Blow, in and of itself, does very little in situations where there is someone else beating on the mob and they don't also have a fair amount of it. For sure it does something, but even the cap is nowhere near as effecient as a nuke. I can understand why Ninja got more (for what it's worth.) First of all, MNK gets more SB in gear, potentially eclipsing a NIN with full SB merits and as much gear as they could find (however, only 3 of those are really any good, and Rajas isn't ideal as far as the community is concerned. Good, not great). Second, its more appropriate for NIN. Not only is it marked as a stealthy job, but as a tank, it wants the enemy to WS less.

If the problem of TP gain were mitigated to the point that MNK's TP to damage ratio were comparable to BLM, MNK's value in HNM would come down to whether or not its ability to deal good physical DOT is still relevant in the face of the massive spike damage of DRK and SAM and the tactics that go along with them.

Subtle Blow gear exists, but on high-evasion mobs, Monk isn't going to hit a damn thing if it stacks on subtle blow, rendering it useless in the first place. The typical arguments I see for Monk doing Chi Blast instead of melee comes down to two things: 1) doesn't hit hard enough per-punch, and 2) feeds the mob too much TP. I can get 1. 2 seems so stupid to me, cause unless you're tanking backwards and only using SAM+Meditate and BLM to do damage, the NM is getting TP. If you were going to argue TP vs Damage, fine, I can get that, but that still comes down to the fact that Monk is useless against HNM when it comes to melee damage.

Wow, I completely bypassed my own subtle blow argument. I need sleep.