Thanks George W. Bush!

[Khamsin]

Although technically, they are only working off a payment for services received, rather than for no compensation. Once they pay their visa off (which could be pretty expensive), they're free to do whatever. It's like washing dishes for a couple hours to pay for your meal in a mom and pop restaurant when you don't have any money. Or washing dishes for a few years, depending on how expensive that meal was.

[Egon]

The most ironic thing is it was a Republican President who ended slavery.

Not really, Republican didn't synonimize with "right-wing" back then at all like it does now.

Lincoln was VERY right wing, even if his party was or not.

[archibaldcrane]

Although technically, they are only working off a payment for services received, rather than for no compensation. Once they pay their visa off (which could be pretty expensive), they're free to do whatever. It's like washing dishes for a couple hours to pay for your meal in a mom and pop restaurant when you don't have any money. Or washing dishes for a few years, depending on how expensive that meal was.

Yeah, that's pretty much what "indentured servitude" means.

Sold my soul to the company store.

[Quicklet]

The most ironic thing is it was a Republican President who ended slavery.

The real irony is that the Emancipation Proclamation was partly an F U move to the South for seceding from the Union. If states never seceded, Lincoln may never have issued that and it would've been some other President that ended up getting all the credit.

[guartz]

Oh, In before "GO HOME YANKEE"!

[Demosthenes11]

The most ironic thing is it was a Republican President who ended slavery.

Not really, Republican didn't synonimize with "right-wing" back then at all like it does now.

Lincoln was VERY right wing, even if his party was or not.

BUT ALL RIGHT WINGERS ARE SEXIST, RACIST, PREJUDICED, BIGGOTS

[Ksandra]

Please, keep him.

qft

It is not slave. A lots agencies in Indonesia, Philipines are also bring the people to go to other country to look for works, especially those blue colar work. Usually the case is that there is a contract that the first few portion of their income will need to use to pay the fee for visa and immigrant process, but the mean while their employer will supply their stays, meals and the necessary daily stuff.

as for the passport, those worker from these kind of countries, employer must keep their passport instead to let them have it. The main reason is that these workers can't be truely trust on their royalty. Most of the time, if they got any chance, they will try to steal the employer's money/asset and escape away. Which happens alots in my country.

Your first sentence kills you right off the bat. Worse thing to do is to defend yourself by saying other people do it too. Hell, the end of slavery began ending even when other countries still did it. Just because someone else does it never never makes it more ok.

[Plow]

ohshitlol

And the FBI is about to knock on your door. lol....

Exactly what I was thinking lol


Commencing Zerg rush of front door in 3.....2.......

Beat me to it

I'm not worried, they can't even pay their bills for wiretapping no way they can afford to look at BG.

[Lordwafik]

How are they slaves if they voluntarily went to said country, and are getting wages?


When I was in Lebanon, a lot of people had Sri Lanki maids, who came to the country, got their wages and such every week, worked and sent money to help feed their family. Some of them were way cool and spoke english, I'd always joke around with those ones.
They were allowed to visit their families in Sri Lanka during the holidays if they pleased, but whilst they're during the work time, the employers kept the Visa incase they ran off without fulfilling the contracted work.

In those countries it's seen more as a bond than ball&chains around their ankle.

Anyway back on topic, when G.W.Bush came to Australia for the APEC meeting, they also closed all the roads and declared it a Public holiday, so no work either yay! I just wish it was a monthly event

[archibaldcrane]

Employers holding your visas = you can't leave, you can't quit, and the subtext is you can't complain, you can't file grievances against your employer, you can't do anything other than what they say, since they hold the key to your travel home.

It is basically the definition of indentured servitude. It was a common practice in America for immigrants too...like 200 years ago.

It's problematic because it puts all the power in the hands of the employer, which makes it too easy to abuse.

[Khamsin]

Employers holding your visas = you can't leave, you can't quit, and the subtext is you can't complain, you can't file grievances against your employer, you can't do anything other than what they say, since they hold the key to your travel home.

It is basically the definition of indentured servitude. It was a common practice in America for immigrants too...like 200 years ago.

It's problematic because it puts all the power in the hands of the employer, which makes it too easy to abuse.

So how would you ensure the immigrants work off their fees? The services are already rendered, so if they choose to back out, you already put in the work to get them over here and so are out of your money anyway. You can't let that happen. The agreement is that you provide a service at a price you dictate, they work it off at a wage you dictate until you're paid back. It's a good business. Besides, they always had the option to not agree to it in the first place and stay in their home countries, unemployed. It's not as if you went over there and kidnapped slaves to bring back. They willingly agreed to work off their fees in return for your services.

What methods would you use that are so much better?

[archibaldcrane]

In many countries, indentured servitude is illegal. The method I would prefer is to not allow employers to establish this type of a workplace situation. If that puts employers that risk monetarily investing in employees from other countries who may leave before the employer would like, may steal from them, so be it. The employers will actually have to pay decently and have a decent work environment to keep their employees then, as opposed to saying "I have your Visa, you are fucked indefinitely my slave."

[Lordwafik]

It's problematic because it puts all the power in the hands of the employer, which makes it too easy to abuse.

Good thing they aren't being forced to work in the overseas countries then , and it's completely optional.

[Demosthenes11]

and good thing they aren't working in 1904's factories

[Charla]

Sorry to interrupt, but happy Bush Day Firas!

Please continue your derail.

[Xavier]

In many countries, indentured servitude is illegal. The method I would prefer is to not allow employers to establish this type of a workplace situation. If that puts employers that risk monetarily investing in employees from other countries who may leave before the employer would like, may steal from them, so be it. The employers will actually have to pay decently and have a decent work environment to keep their employees then, as opposed to saying "I have your Visa, you are fucked indefinitely my slave."

I don't see the problem if the servitude was entered into through free will. Is it slavery if you get what you want?

The issue shouldn't be with the companies but with the home government that is apparently doing shit an awful job that people are leaving in the first place. Ideally there should be no indentured servitude because I believe that isn't what a free market and capitalism should be about, but I don't think companies are the root of the problem.

[Charla]

In many countries, indentured servitude is illegal. The method I would prefer is to not allow employers to establish this type of a workplace situation. If that puts employers that risk monetarily investing in employees from other countries who may leave before the employer would like, may steal from them, so be it. The employers will actually have to pay decently and have a decent work environment to keep their employees then, as opposed to saying "I have your Visa, you are fucked indefinitely my slave."

I don't see the problem if the servitude was entered into through free will. Is it slavery if you get what you want?

The issue shouldn't be with the companies but with the home government that is apparently doing shit an awful job that people are leaving in the first place. Ideally there should be no indentured servitude because I believe that isn't what a free market and capitalism should be about, but I don't think companies are the root of the problem.

It's only a problem if the agreement is misrepresented before it's made, or if it changes after one party is committed. A bait-and-switch is a much bigger problem if there's no way to get out after the switch.

[archibaldcrane]

Hey, maybe you guys are right. Maybe the employers aren't exploiting their indentured servants. Maybe there is no misrepresentation of what work will be performed and the conditions under which it is performed before the servants arrive that would violate informed consent. Maybe the employers aren't artificially tacking on "expenses" to the servants' bills, forcing their stay to be prolonged beyond their original agreements. Maybe everything works out perfectly and there is no exploitation.

But if there was any abuses of the system, how would you ever know? The workers won't speak out, they have very few rights. I suppose that such a wall of silence is ideal to keep the rich employers happy, but I don't think it's an ideal way to go about finding low-level employees for a nation.

Look, I was just trying to crack up about the fact that they allow indentured servitude in the UAE, I find it hilarious. I didn't realize the practice still maintained this much support.

[Mulligan]

I know that back in the day in the US, companies would pay for people from say Ireland to travel here to work in factories and they would have to work in the factory till they paid off that debt for the travel. They would keep tabs on you and make sure you didnt leave before paying off that debt. I know this because my great grandfather signed up for this sometime in the late 1800s. He was on the boat to the US and when he was able to see the shore he jumped ship and swam the rest of the way to shore and never payed them back lol.

[Khamsin]

I know that back in the day in the US, companies would pay for people from say Ireland to travel here to work in factories and they would have to work in the factory till they paid off that debt for the travel. They would keep tabs on you and make sure you didnt leave before paying off that debt. I know this because my great grandfather signed up for this sometime in the late 1800s. He was on the boat to the US and when he was able to see the shore he jumped ship and swam the rest of the way to shore and never payed them back lol.

And people wonder why companies had to take such drastic measures to ensure their business, god forbid, turns a profit! They wouldn't even bother transporting people and helping them get their visas if they lost money on it. They aren't charities.