Quickdraw Usage in Endgame

[Suiram]

dunno if that's inclusive/correct but yea

does QD damage get a bonus on flans like blm spells?

also random question (kinda retarded, meh), but can Elem. Seal be used in conjunction with QD for damage/effect? I mean for full damage (assuming no -mdt) as well as sleep/dispel.

Not inconclusive so much as immaterial, since the entire question is whether or not Quick Draw is affected by that to begin with. However if it is the case, then it would get the bonus on flan.

[Kaeko]

About the question for charges, I should probably take a look at how SCH reacts to RD and WC... should be the same. If you do /recast Strategem when you blow all 3 charges, it will say 12:00 remaining though, not 4:00.

[Kylen]

Aura Pots get some % cut for sure, I just did them the other night...also last night I noticed I couldn't break 236 vs. Colibri for my life regardless of shot/day, even though my damage should be 264(Martial Gun/Steel Bullets, 16% MAB). I also had a 212 which seems kind of weird for a resist. Iirc Colibri are BLU mobs, but I don't know if they get any sort of native MDB.

I've seen the same thing on Colibri; I'm pretty sure they have a native 10% magic damage reduction or something. No clue about the 212 damage shot you saw, though. Were you wearing AF Hat too? If so your full QD damage should have been 276, not 264.

dunno if that's inclusive/correct but yea

does QD damage get a bonus on flans like blm spells?

also random question (kinda retarded, meh), but can Elem. Seal be used in conjunction with QD for damage/effect? I mean for full damage (assuming no -mdt) as well as sleep/dispel.

I'll try to check next time I do Nyzul to see if my QD's do any extra damage on Flans; I don't recall seeing any bonus but I know they hardly ever resist it.

Testing ES with Quick Draw would be tricky since no one knows exactly how much magic accuracy affects it or how to quantify the effects. The only time I've ever gone COR/BLM has been to kited Kirin fights, and I can tell you that the 4 times I've remembered to use ES before Quick Draw I always landed for full damage. 4/4 is way too low a sample size to be statistically significant, however.

[nekura]

QD does get a damage bonus on Flans, I use it all of the time when I do manaburns. Good for when a round of nukes leaves the flan at 10% or so.

[Callisto]

Aura Pots get some % cut for sure, I just did them the other night...also last night I noticed I couldn't break 236 vs. Colibri for my life regardless of shot/day, even though my damage should be 264(Martial Gun/Steel Bullets, 16% MAB). I also had a 212 which seems kind of weird for a resist. Iirc Colibri are BLU mobs, but I don't know if they get any sort of native MDB.

I've seen the same thing on Colibri; I'm pretty sure they have a native 10% magic damage reduction or something. No clue about the 212 damage shot you saw, though. Were you wearing AF Hat too? If so your full QD damage should have been 276, not 264.

Yeah, 10% MDB/TMDA would come out to 237~ by my math, mebbe I'm rounding something wrong but it's pretty close...as far as the normal base I know it's 264 for sure, (39 + 70) x 2 +10 = 228, tack on 16% MAB(Moldy/Denali/Uggy) and it comes to 264, and I've shot enough EPs in WRon to be sure that's my base.

Testing ES with Quick Draw would be tricky since no one knows exactly how much magic accuracy affects it or how to quantify the effects. The only time I've ever gone COR/BLM has been to kited Kirin fights, and I can tell you that the 4 times I've remembered to use ES before Quick Draw I always landed for full damage. 4/4 is way too low a sample size to be statistically significant, however.

I would think that if your ES buff is actually used up when you use QD you could assume that it works with it, if you use the JA and ES is still up afterwards it most likely doesn't. I can't think of any other JAs that would consume your ES buff when you used them.

[Atreides]

Aura Pots get some % cut for sure, I just did them the other night...also last night I noticed I couldn't break 236 vs. Colibri for my life regardless of shot/day, even though my damage should be 264(Martial Gun/Steel Bullets, 16% MAB). I also had a 212 which seems kind of weird for a resist. Iirc Colibri are BLU mobs, but I don't know if they get any sort of native MDB.

I've seen the same thing on Colibri; I'm pretty sure they have a native 10% magic damage reduction or something. No clue about the 212 damage shot you saw, though. Were you wearing AF Hat too? If so your full QD damage should have been 276, not 264.

Yeah, 10% MDB/TMDA would come out to 237~ by my math, mebbe I'm rounding something wrong but it's pretty close...as far as the normal base I know it's 264 for sure, (39 + 70) x 2 +10 = 228, tack on 16% MAB(Moldy/Denali/Uggy) and it comes to 264, and I've shot enough EPs in WRon to be sure that's my base.

did you get day nerfed (earth shot on windsday etc)? that'd be another 10% off your 237, bringing you to 212

[Callisto]

did you get day nerfed (earth shot on windsday etc)? that'd be another 10% off your 237, bringing you to 212

That's possible, the bulk of the party was during Lights/Darksday but it may have changed to Firesday and I was mostly using Ice Shot, and you're right, I didn't notice that 10% off of 236 is 212. The only thing that's bugging me is that no matter how I try applying the math on paper I can't seem to get it to equal 236, always 237, but it was for sure 236 last night.

[Suiram]

How much MAB did you have?

Edit: Nvm you said +16. I get 236 then, if Colibri have 12 MDB, and I also get 212 under that assumption for day of the week penalty. So it looks like Quick Draw damage takes MDB into account, and if it gets that bonus on flan in mt. zhayolm as someone said it did, then it is affected by shell term as well, although would probably want to double-check that latter claim just to be sure.

[Kylen]

[quote:1aaxoi1p][quote:1aaxoi1p]Aura Pots get some % cut for sure, I just did them the other night...also last night I noticed I couldn't break 236 vs. Colibri for my life regardless of shot/day, even though my damage should be 264(Martial Gun/Steel Bullets, 16% MAB). I also had a 212 which seems kind of weird for a resist. Iirc Colibri are BLU mobs, but I don't know if they get any sort of native MDB.

I've seen the same thing on Colibri; I'm pretty sure they have a native 10% magic damage reduction or something. No clue about the 212 damage shot you saw, though. Were you wearing AF Hat too? If so your full QD damage should have been 276, not 264.[/quote:1aaxoi1p]


Yeah, 10% MDB/TMDA would come out to 237~ by my math, mebbe I'm rounding something wrong but it's pretty close...as far as the normal base I know it's 264 for sure, (39 + 70) x 2 +10 = 228, tack on 16% MAB(Moldy/Denali/Uggy) and it comes to 264, and I've shot enough EPs in WRon to be sure that's my base.[/quote:1aaxoi1p]
Ah, you're right - I was dumb and accidentally added the 10 from AF hat in before multiplying by 2. Looks like your 212 damage shot likely was a 10% reduction from the day of the week, too.

[Callisto]

How much MAB did you have?

16%, Moldy/Uggy/Denali Kecks. The base damage would be 228 (Martial/Steel/Tricorne), if I apply the MDB then the MAB I get 228 * .9 = 205, 205 * 1.16 = 237.

Alternately, 228 * 1.16 = 264, 264 * .9 = 237.

If I subtract the MDB straight from the MAB, 16 - 10 = 6, I get 228 * 1.06 = 241, which isn't even close. Not a huge deal, but 237 =/= 236 and that irks me, lol.

[Suiram]

How much MAB did you have?

16%, Moldy/Uggy/Denali Kecks. The base damage would be 228 (Martial/Steel/Tricorne), if I apply the MDB then the MAB I get 228 * .9 = 205, 205 * 1.16 = 237.

Alternately, 228 * 1.16 = 264, 264 * .9 = 237.

If I subtract the MDB straight from the MAB, 16 - 10 = 6, I get 228 * 1.06 = 241, which isn't even close. Not a huge deal, but 237 =/= 236 and that irks me, lol.

Yeah it doesn't work that way, it's

floor(228 * 1.16/1.12) = 236

or for day penalty it's

floor(228 * .9) = 205
floor(205 * 1.16/1.12) = 212

[Callisto]

How much MAB did you have?

16%, Moldy/Uggy/Denali Kecks. The base damage would be 228 (Martial/Steel/Tricorne), if I apply the MDB then the MAB I get 228 * .9 = 205, 205 * 1.16 = 237.

Alternately, 228 * 1.16 = 264, 264 * .9 = 237.

If I subtract the MDB straight from the MAB, 16 - 10 = 6, I get 228 * 1.06 = 241, which isn't even close. Not a huge deal, but 237 =/= 236 and that irks me, lol.

Yeah it doesn't work that way, it's

floor(228 * 1.16/1.12) = 236

or for day penalty it's

floor(228 * .9) = 205
floor(205 * 1.16/1.12) = 212

Can I ask where the 1.12 comes from? Edit: Nvm, I see it so MAB is divided by MDB, so that would mean that Colibri actually have a MDB II trait, yes?

[Suiram]

Can I ask where the 1.12 comes from?

MDB from job trait is going to be 10, 12, 14, or 16, and a typical mob is usually going to have MDB from job trait if it has it at all. Since I don't have much experience w/ Colibri magic stats, I tried out 10, damage was too high, tried out 12 and the number fit just right, that's where the 1.12 comes from.

Edit: I should add that I also knew it was MDB and not TMDA because just before I posted I cast 1000 Needles on a Lesser Colibri (which ignores MDB but not TMDA) and it did the full 1000.

Edit 2:

Edit: Nvm, I see it so MAB is divided by MDB, so that would mean that Colibri actually have a MDB II trait, yes?

Yes, that's right.

[Kylen]

MDB from job trait is going to be 10, 12, 14, or 16, and a typical mob is usually going to have MDB from job trait if it has it at all. Since I don't have much experience w/ Colibri magic stats, I tried out 10, damage was too high, tried out 12 and the number fit just right, that's where the 1.12 comes from.

Makes sense, since aren't all Colibiri RDM job types?

[Callisto]

Can I ask where the 1.12 comes from?

MDB from job trait is going to be 10, 12, 14, or 16, and a typical mob is usually going to have MDB from job trait if it has it at all. Since I don't have much experience w/ Colibri magic stats, I tried out 10, damage was too high, tried out 12 and the number fit just right, that's where the 1.12 comes from.

Edit: I should add that I also knew it was MDB and not TMDA because just before I posted I cast 1000 Needles on a Lesser Colibri (which ignores MDB but not TMDA) and it did the full 1000.

Yeah I figured it out right after I asked that lol, thanks for pointing out where I was going wrong. It's still kind of goofy if Colibri are indeed BLU mobs since BLU normally only gets one MDB, but the math fits w/ MDB II so w/e. Colibri may be RDMs instead, which would make some sense as well, but I thought that Nagamaki showed their stats to match up with BLU and don't really remember seeing much after that.

Although this does raise more questions, since we know that QD does get affected by both MDB and TMDA, what kind of magic defense does that make Wyrms have if QD can do full damage?

[Suiram]

Yeah I figured it out right after I asked that lol, thanks for pointing out where I was going wrong. It's still kind of goofy if Colibri are indeed BLU mobs since BLU normally only gets one MDB, but the math fits w/ MDB II so w/e. Colibri may be RDMs instead, which would make some sense as well, but I thought that Nagamaki showed their stats to match up with BLU and don't really remember seeing much after that.

Although this does raise more questions, since we know that QD does get affected by both MDB and TMDA, what kind of magic defense does that make Wyrms have if QD can do full damage?

Actually, just tested the TMDA part, and it does not, in fact, reduce the damage from Quick Draw. 65 COR friend with D39 gun and D55 bullets did 188 against weapon @ Dem, rather than 164 if it took the penalty. That suggests then the opposite of what I said earlier, and that wyrm magic reduction is TMDA, rather than MDB. I don't know what to say about the puddings though, maybe the guy was eyeballing and is remembering larger damage from a day/weather bonus?

[Callisto]

a COR in my LS was doing constant 172 dmg wind shot to kirin the other day, and maybe 1 out of 7 shot get 1/2 resisted.

172 damage already sounds like a partial resist, unless this COR was using a really weak gun/bullets with no MAB gear whatsoever. Even with just a Coffinmaker, Steel Bullets, and AF Hat, unresisted Wind Shot will do 240 damage; it's not hard at all to push that to the ~300-350 range with the right gear.

Just a side note b/c I'm really bored at work, lol: Peacemaker + Corsair Bullets + Auster's = Consistent 172 Wind Shots, that setup wouldn't be a huge stretch of the imagination for a slightly misguided COR(AGI+5, fuck yeah!).

[Callisto]

Yeah I figured it out right after I asked that lol, thanks for pointing out where I was going wrong. It's still kind of goofy if Colibri are indeed BLU mobs since BLU normally only gets one MDB, but the math fits w/ MDB II so w/e. Colibri may be RDMs instead, which would make some sense as well, but I thought that Nagamaki showed their stats to match up with BLU and don't really remember seeing much after that.

Although this does raise more questions, since we know that QD does get affected by both MDB and TMDA, what kind of magic defense does that make Wyrms have if QD can do full damage?

Actually, just tested the TMDA part, and it does not, in fact, reduce the damage from Quick Draw. 65 COR friend with D39 gun and D55 bullets did 188 against weapon @ Dem, rather than 164 if it took the penalty. That suggests then the opposite of what I said earlier, and that wyrm magic reduction is TMDA, rather than MDB. I don't know what to say about the puddings though, maybe the guy was eyeballing and is remembering larger damage from a day/weather bonus?

That's still a little odd due to the fact that Aura Pots definitely get a cut on QD, although it could be possible that it's from MDB(I'm under the impression that they're either RDM/BLM or BLM/RDM), but I don't recall exactly what kind of #'s I was putting up vs. them, just that it wasn't full damage for sure. If I can go COR to Sky tomorrow I'll try to zap a couple and see what the actual # is.

[Suiram]

That's still a little odd due to the fact that Aura Pots definitely get a cut on QD, although it could be possible that it's from MDB(I'm under the impression that they're either RDM/BLM or BLM/RDM), but I don't recall exactly what kind of #'s I was putting up vs. them. If I can go COR to Sky tomorrow I'll try to zap a couple and see what the actual # is.

Yeah, like I said before, Aura Pots have a 50% reduction just by virtue of being pots, but the damage (from nukes) is still lower since they also get MDB trait (not sure if it's 12 or 14).

[Callisto]

That's still a little odd due to the fact that Aura Pots definitely get a cut on QD, although it could be possible that it's from MDB(I'm under the impression that they're either RDM/BLM or BLM/RDM), but I don't recall exactly what kind of #'s I was putting up vs. them. If I can go COR to Sky tomorrow I'll try to zap a couple and see what the actual # is.

Yeah, like I said before, Aura Pots have a 50% reduction just by virtue of being pots, but the damage (from nukes) is still lower since they also get MDB trait (not sure if it's 12 or 14).

Ah didn't see where you had mentioned it earlier. I remember having really shitty QD damage before on them, I was duoing them with a BLU as COR/WHM at the time, but my QD set wasn't anywhere near as built up as it is now, so I could've just been getting consistent resists. I'll test it out at some point tonight or tomorrow and see what the exact #'s I pull are.