Randomer Question Thread

[Hanyoko]

Increases Rate of Critical Hits

Assassin's Vest / Assassin's Vest +1
Ifrit's Bow
Pahluwan Khazagand
Ragnarok
Sipahi Jawshan / Abtal Jawshan
Skadi Armor set
Trollbane
Zeta Sash

I know testing was done on the Pahluwan Khazagand and have show the increase to be unnoticable with respect of margin of error. However this effect has to do something; Has any testing been done with the Jawshan or Trollbane?

I really want to know how this effect actually factors in.

[desertigloo]

Is there a link to a topic/lj that has the WS formulas explained? :/
I'm trying to search the forums, but i'm not having any luck.
I'd just like to read over what's been posted so I can make my own judgements, but if someone has it handy I would appreciate the following:
Rampage Formula and a quick defintion of the meanings of variables in the formula.
IE: fstr cratio pdif ; ;

Thanks

[Amele]

Is there a link to a topic/lj that has the WS formulas explained? :/
I'm trying to search the forums, but i'm not having any luck.
I'd just like to read over what's been posted so I can make my own judgements, but if someone has it handy I would appreciate the following:
Rampage Formula and a quick defintion of the meanings of variables in the formula.
IE: fstr cratio pdif ; ;

Thanks

most of it is on the wiki's; which is based off VZX's work (and translations from studio Gobli). Most of that data is pre-2h buff/adjustment. I will reproduce in short form below:

for physical weaponskills the formula is:

damage = (WD+FSTR+WSC)*PDIF*fTP - this is a single hit. multiple hits add multiples of this formula together.


fstr is a function of str - vit relationship; in situations where str - vit is +12 or more; the formula is fstr2()/2 - fstr2 is the ranged str - vit relationship. (melee fstr is 1/2 ranged fstr). fstr2 in the +12 or greater range is =floor((STR-VIT+4)/2) or put another way: fstr = floor((STR-VIT+4)/4). fstr has a max of weapon rank + 8 and a min of -weapon rank for melee.

weapon rank is floor(WD/9). unless you're H2H, in which case it is floor(WD+3/9).

WD is the printed damage on the weapon.

WSC is the weaponskill modifier (eg: str 40%; vit 40%) at level 75 this term is further multiplied by a 0.83 level adjustment. so this is WSC=floor(0.83*floor(%WSC*STAT))


pdif is a calculated value based on cRatio, which is itself a level adjusted relationship of attack to defense (Ratio). this explains the relationship of attack to cRatio.

pdif is complicated: we don't know the distribution (it is almost certainly non-normal; and at least over some ranges, is non-linear as well.) we have a good handle on pdif_max and pdif_min for 1h, and solid knowledge on pdif_mid. we don't know about pdif_median or pdif_average well enough to have a formula for it. - most people who do math using these formulas either operate on the assumption that pdif is at max for the number purposes or we just substitute cRatio or pdif_mid directly. see the further reading at the end of this brief (courtesy VZX) for more information.

fTP is the damage modifier from TP; for the first hit this is given by the ws (0.5-4.0) all subsequent hits after the first, regardless of source, have an fTP of 1.0.

most of the contortions you see people go through (myself included) are based on these statements + lots of fundamental math. this model is just a 'best guess approximation' it used to be very very accurate versus level 1 bunnies. we're pretty good versus level 81 g.colibri too but it's not an exact science; just the current state of the art

vzx's source document

[desertigloo]

Thanks, looks like I have a lot of homework to do

[Max™]

30% Str wsmod
So every 4 points of Str over target Vit give 1 weapon Dmg from fStr, and every 3~ gives 1 WS Dmg from WS mod.

pDif can be simply though of as the difference of your attack and the targets defense.
cRatio is decided by the level of your target and your level, against a lvl 81 or so monster it's about .83.

So, let's say you have 70+30 Str cause it's a nice simple number.

Let's use 600 Attack vs 300 Defense.

100 Str vs say a Greater Coli with 67 Vit will give 33 Str over target vit, so 8 fStr.

Dmg 49 Maneater + 8

30% Str mod will give 30 Dmg so Dmg 81.

fTP is .5 as I recall, so Dmg 40 first hit, 81 next 5 hits.

pDif for non crit will be 1.6~, 2.6 for Crit.

Let's say they all crit, 1144 for all 6 hits, 1564 for 2 doubles + full crits.

Doh, forgot to factor in Alpha

[Amele]

cRatio isn't .83^^:

that's alpha. (.83) alpha is purely a function of your level.

cRatio is max(Ratio - 0.05*MLEVEL-PLEVEL; Ratio)

in this particular case, a level 81 mob will get you a cRatio of about Ratio - 0.3 or in the case of 600 att / 300 def, a final value of cRatio = 1.70.

[Noobta]

Ah, thanks.

Another question, for Penta thrust, is it better to stack acc or str/dex? Or mix and match pieces?

>> Can someone answer it please?

[Callisto]

Acc until it's capped, then STR/Attack.

[Kaeko]

If you're in Salvage and you do not have HP unlocked, will Sorcerer's Ring (procs under 76% HP) work automatically?

[SamanosukeShiva]

>> Can someone answer it please?

dont need very much acc if you're a drg IMO, but if you're SAM or WAR, i'd go acc all the way

[Max™]

I was multiplying by .83, to be fair I kept getting stopped by a 6 year old to help with events in Mario vs Sonic on the DS, but .7 would have been more accurate, ty.

[Capo]

If you're in Salvage and you do not have HP unlocked, will Sorcerer's Ring (procs under 76% HP) work automatically?

yes, tested with hercules ring

[gandorf]

Whats furnishing gives good storage space for cheap ? and is there a way I can put a ton of furnishing in my moghouse without losing my bastok conquest.

[Amele]

If you're in Salvage and you do not have HP unlocked, will Sorcerer's Ring (procs under 76% HP) work automatically?

I'll have people check tonight if we get into a situation where we have rings but not hp. (since we can check with any of the latent rings I'm sure someone between the blms bards and I will have it available.)

I believe the answer is 'no' since the modification is to your max hp (i.e. HP-50%) and not a convert situation; but I admit I haven't actually made a point of testing it.

[Callisto]

Whats furnishing gives good storage space for cheap ? and is there a way I can put a ton of furnishing in my moghouse without losing my bastok conquest.

Bookshelves, and I don't think so but not sure.

[Hanyoko]

I'll have people check tonight if we get into a situation where we have rings but not hp. (since we can check with any of the latent rings I'm sure someone between the blms bards and I will have it available.)

I believe the answer is 'no' since the modification is to your max hp (i.e. HP-50%) and not a convert situation; but I admit I haven't actually made a point of testing it.

I causes sublimation to not work unless you have stoneskin up

[Arouz]

If acc is capped for a thf what is better for amount of attacks? A rapparee harness or homam corazza? The rest of the gear would be skadi chausses, homam hands/feet, walmart turban and swift belt for a total of 17% haste w/o body. Its to settle a bet with a friend.

[Seraph]

If acc is capped for a thf what is better for amount of attacks? A rapparee harness or homam corazza? The rest of the gear would be skadi chausses, homam hands/feet, walmart turban and swift belt for a total of 17% haste w/o body. Its to settle a bet with a friend.

I believe in all realistic cases for THF the Homam body wins out, unless for some reason you absolutely need that extra 4% haste for keeping shadows up or something weird.

Homam body ends up being something around 2.5% TA bonus, which leads to a 5% average increase in attacks, and in addition, can proc on WSs. This generally beats out the extra 4% increase in attacks from the R. Harness, which functions for DoT only, not WSs. Homam also has the nice bonus of additional Def, HP, and 15 Acc (and MP, but for a THF I highly doubt this even matters). I know you said Acc wasn't an issue, but more often than not you aren't completely capped on Acc.

[ringthree]

I think I have a decent understanding of game mechanics and the equations behind them, and I think I am decent at gearing myself properly, so this is my dumb ass question: How hard and how often will I cap attack in merits; on end-game NM; in Dynamis/Einjherjar, and what are the circumstances under which I could cap attack?

I know that is a really broad question, because I didn't include jobs, but lets assume for the sake of discussion on MNK/NIN, on SAM/WAR, and on DRG/SAM (a non-dual-wielder with high attack, a two-hander with Berserk and a two-hander without Berserk as to why I suggested those jobs).

[Callisto]

On normal merit mobs like birds I think the cap is like 770~? Higher on Mamools/Skoffins of course. SAM/WAR would probably have an easier time with Berserk, but for the most part I believe capped/merited 2-hander with Zerk/Minuet x2/decent Chaos should hit that. DRG/SAM has a bit more Acc so the extra boost towards meat makes up slightly for the lack of Berserk, not sure how much though.

If you have good enough Acc to support a meat build it's even easier, but in my experiences you do need really strong support even for just plain merit mobs. Even with BRD + COR I don't believe that Minuet x2 is generally the best song combo in terms of XP/hr, unless you were aiming for epeen more than efficiency. Dynamis/Limbus, etc. I have no clue what their actual Defense is.