Randomer Question Thread

[Callisto]

I have read that thread and the comments of people that I believe are knowledgeable on the subject several times, and I still don't believe their is definitive evidence for 1-hit WS accuracy bonus, WS gorget bonus on multiple hits, or if WS gorgets are better than torques or PCC. I am not saying that there isn't some accuracy bonus going on, but the source is still very unclear.

Somewhere there is some math going on, and a lot of people are trying to figure it out, but it seems like every time new evidence is presented the popular notion shifts to the new evidence instead of comparing the new evidence with the old and creating a synthesized conclusion. This could easily be caused by the fact that some of the evidence is just hard to compare.

That's the same way I felt, and like I had said while it doesn't replace math when dealing with computer programs, anectdotal evidence isn't exactly useless, I've seen way too many Kasha whiffs to assume that 1-hit WS' get that large of a boost.

[Secksi]

Could anyone explain to me where to find/how to make a Windower script to skill up Enhancing Magic and Healing Magic? Doesn't need to be too fancy, just something that will spam bar-spells/Cure.

I did this recently on Blm to cap my enhancing. 75Blm/37Rdm with w.turban/swift belt/loq earring(recasts and fastcast), I used hMP and +MP in other slots I didn't have haste in, pick one gearset and stick with it. These are the waits I used, do a simple macro with different waits until you figure out what works for your character so you can spam spells over and over without getting the "you cannot cast spells at this time" message.

input /ma "Barfire" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Baraero" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Barblizzard" <me>;
wait 4;

Figure out how much MP you have with your hodgepodge gearset and do this until you'll be out of MP, also figure out how long it takes you to go from 0mp till capped while resting. After all that add in these next lines every time you'll be out of MP. I'll use 190 seconds as an example, be sure to give yourself a little bit of a time buffer(if it takes you 3 mins, give yourself an extra 10 seconds).

input /heal;
wait 190;
input /heal;
wait 10;
input /ma "Barfire" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Baraero" <me>;
wait 4;

Make this into a huge ass text file and set it up when you have a shitton of time. It took me 18 straight hours to go from 125 to 200 enhancing with this method. Do something similar for cures. Another thing, when you do this be sure to setup somewhere way out of the way.

[jibini]

Last time I had the opportunity to parse myself in merits as Samurai, I was WSing with 297 skill, 92 dex, 23 accuracy, and the relevant gorget.

That should be a total of 379 accuracy, plus whatever the gorget gives.

379 accuracy, on Greater Colibri, should come out to be 84.5% hit rate on level 81 Colibri and 80% hit rate on level 82 Colibri.

My WS accuracy for the party, using a mix of YGK, was a little over 94%.

So either the gorget is giving a hefty boost, or there's an accuracy bonus on at least YGK.

[Aragon of Odin]

As far as I know parsers don't actually parse each hit in a WS. So if you land 1/5 hits say, it's still going to show up on your parser as being 100% accuracy for a WS.

When I parse myself I almost always have 100% ACC on my ws's, the only odd time I would miss one entirely is if a Puk happened to use the flash move just as I hit my WS Macro. Even tho the parser suggests I'm at 100% I know for sure that I miss hits it my WS's sometimes, so the parser is wrong in that sense.

[Ashira]

As far as I know parsers don't actually parse each hit in a WS. So if you land 1/5 hits say, it's still going to show up on your parser as being 100% accuracy for a WS.

When I parse myself I almost always have 100% ACC on my ws's, the only odd time I would miss one entirely is if a Puk happened to use the flash move just as I hit my WS Macro. Even tho the parser suggests I'm at 100% I know for sure that I miss hits it my WS's sometimes, so the parser is wrong in that sense.

But they're talking about SAM WS's, the high end of which are all one-hit, and only have extra hits when DA procs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I have read that thread and the comments of people that I believe are knowledgeable on the subject several times, and I still don't believe their is definitive evidence for 1-hit WS accuracy bonus, WS gorget bonus on multiple hits, or if WS gorgets are better than torques or PCC. I am not saying that there isn't some accuracy bonus going on, but the source is still very unclear.

Somewhere there is some math going on, and a lot of people are trying to figure it out, but it seems like every time new evidence is presented the popular notion shifts to the new evidence instead of comparing the new evidence with the old and creating a synthesized conclusion. This could easily be caused by the fact that some of the evidence is just hard to compare.

Ruke's WSAcc tests weren't nearly as inconclusive as the gorget testing has been. 50 Acc is a rather large number to pull out of your ass.

[Tan]

But they're talking about SAM WS's, the high end of which are all one-hit, and only have extra hits when DA procs.

Don't forget Zanshin's which typically have reduced damage and 1% TP gain. So theoretically you could be Zanshin or DAing on your WS but still missing the first hit, but the parser won't notice the difference.

[Kaelen]

I did this recently on Blm to cap my enhancing. 75Blm/37Rdm with w.turban/swift belt/loq earring(recasts and fastcast), I used hMP and +MP in other slots I didn't have haste in, pick one gearset and stick with it. These are the waits I used, do a simple macro with different waits until you figure out what works for your character so you can spam spells over and over without getting the "you cannot cast spells at this time" message.

input /ma "Barfire" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Baraero" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Barblizzard" <me>;
wait 4;

Figure out how much MP you have with your hodgepodge gearset and do this until you'll be out of MP, also figure out how long it takes you to go from 0mp till capped while resting. After all that add in these next lines every time you'll be out of MP. I'll use 190 seconds as an example, be sure to give yourself a little bit of a time buffer(if it takes you 3 mins, give yourself an extra 10 seconds).

input /heal;
wait 190;
input /heal;
wait 10;
input /ma "Barfire" <me>;
wait 4;
input /ma "Baraero" <me>;
wait 4;

Make this into a huge ass text file and set it up when you have a shitton of time. It took me 18 straight hours to go from 125 to 200 enhancing with this method. Do something similar for cures. Another thing, when you do this be sure to setup somewhere way out of the way.

Thanks for this. I'm still fairly new with script writing.

[Amele]

Ruke's WSAcc tests weren't nearly as inconclusive as the gorget testing has been. 50 Acc is a rather large number to pull out of your ass.

right but the testing is way to inconclusive to say that it's 50 acc in all situations and not dependent on something.

it could even be dex based so wearing -dex gear could still be bad (or it could be the other way around where the boost isn't a number at all but simply setting your hit rate at a set point - in which case there's no reason to wear any accuracy at all) the point is all anyone has tested for so far is 'does it exist' and I don't think anyone is really disputing that at this point. (I agree now that it is pretty obvious *something* is going on to boost ws accuracy on at least gekko, and probably all three.)

[Amele]

Don't forget Zanshin's which typically have reduced damage and 1% TP gain. So theoretically you could be Zanshin or DAing on your WS but still missing the first hit, but the parser won't notice the difference.

right but that shouldn't be making up a 20-25% difference in hit rate, really. (at 75% accuracy, you'd see a boost of about 7% or so from both zanshin and DA assuming a baseline of 10% proc for each.) although that's going to be enough to push it from 75% to ~89%. (or from 80% to 96%)

so yeah.. it's difficult to really say *what* the bonuses are or aren't at this point without more controlled testing.

[Sanoske]

Very noobish nuking question. Probably ofn and I should be stoned for not knowing.

Today while doing puddings, my Thunder IV without Pendant/AF2 Legs/day boost was maxing at 1378. (Sold my Novio to fund other things >.<) Was eating Wizard Cookies for the first few chains, and decided to switch to Melon Pie +1. After that, my max was now 1412. I didn't think INT +5 would add that much dmg.... did I break some kind of dmg tier? Even Novio only bumped it up to 1420 or so without mods. INT before was 72+36 and after 72+41(obviously), so 108 vs 113. Or am I just totally off?

[Max™]

Original testing showed gorget might have been similar to PCC, but margin of error was a monster since it was low numbers and too varied targets.

Later testing showed roughly PCC type increase on first hit, later hits remained inconclusive.

I tested (400 WSes against a fortification wearing no accuracy gear, 200 with gorget, 200 without) and even though DA polluted my results, I showed roughly PCC type increase in total hits, not just first hit.

JP Nin/Thf testing was done with underskilled completely uncapped accuracy, no DA, over something like 300 samples for the two variables? Maybe more? Showed PCC type increase over all hits.

If you want, you can go check yourself, especially if you have a monk and a gorget that works for asuran, simply strip naked, find something you can reset and hit regularly that has known levels, set up a baseline asuran accuracy, and then do tests with the gorget.

Bonus if you have a PCC or some other piece with right at 10 Acc that you can swap in place of the gorget (ohat!) and see if there is any correlation between your baseline and gorget tests, or your gorget and +10 acc tests.

So far evidence says you will find the gorget and +10 acc tests will have the most similar results, several people have reported it, I myself have noticed how weirdly rare it is for me to get non-full returns, or miss doubles on WC RR's, with only 10-12 Acc +39~40 Dex in my WS set.


Also: I recall mentioning my ridiculous steel cyclone accuracy with something like 379 total acc in my WS gearset to Ruke when asking him to mathicisize my gorget RR tests, along with a few other reports which suggested that single hits, and possibly the first hit of any WS, has a noticeable acc boost.

[Ace-o-fire]

Whats a good sub for solo DNC and a good weapon choice for getting DNC up to 37

[Max™]

Dnc/Mnk hth til 10-20, Dnc/Drg for jump would be fun, Dnc/Nin for two knives (even though the WSes suck, you get more skill, and can get +2 Acc merc knives, since all you need is enough TP to outlast things) though I swapped to single wield knife around 13 cause I had just leveled Monk and felt like poking at stuff instead of hthing.

Spamming knife swings 1hed gives quicker samba procs, it suuucks missing a hand or both with hth at that level, though if you had either or merited it might be different.

Lower Delkfutts > Sauromugue > Yhoator > Bibiki > Beauc > Altep pets worked nicely.

[Cream Soda]

I don't like daggers on dnc till 30 (Rajas ring) otherwise it takes 2 attack rounds when to get enough for a step move.

[Deband]

Anyone know where there's a good guide to fighting JoL?

[Karbuncle]

Heres an off-the-cuff question

Flagallent's Bow (Mediocre Delay/damage)
Flagallent's Rope (Shares a name, While paralyzed Haste+8%)

Wonder if there have been any tests trying to find a hidden effect on the Flagallent's bow... SE indicated checking items with no use... this thing cant be crafted, and has the same Damage/delay as a Xbow 8 levels below it (heavy Crossbow), also drops off a 21-24 HOUR NM... (Phandurion the condemned),

figured its worth something. im camping for the bow since nones ever in stock, and the ropes are damn cheap so i'll buy one when they come in stock. howeveri was just checking to make sure no one has done tests before

[JigglyJam]

I don't know as to whether or not this has been asked before, but could I use a mule's beastmen's seals to start a BCNM and then switch out with my main character?

[jibini]

I don't know as to whether or not this has been asked before, but could I use a mule's beastmen's seals to start a BCNM and then switch out with my main character?

I'm not sure. I know you can do it with non-orb holders if they're already in the party... not sure if adding someone to the party after the BC's started makes a difference...

[XanthePandy]

I don't know as to whether or not this has been asked before, but could I use a mule's beastmen's seals to start a BCNM and then switch out with my main character?

I can't find it on search but I remember Sath answered (or asked) the question previously. If I recall correctly, you have your mule use their orb then have another person enter and then your mule leave. Your main can then enter the bcnm in place of your mule.