Randomer Question Thread

[Amele]

for sam I'd say it's better when your acc isn't capping out, which probably most of the time you aren't getting a madrigal, or hunter's roll, for mnk it's best if your using meat, if sushi togi is probably better, and for ninja I am not sure.

briefly: it's basically always better if you have use for about half the acc on the body piece.

This won't always be the case depending on what the rest of your set up look like, in general if you're below about 92.5% overall acc then you're probably in the area above. - the question should really be: when is usukane body better than haubergeon+1?

that one is harder to answer (it depends heavily on what else you're using since they are very close.)

[Wolfknight]

briefly: it's basically always better if you have use for about half the acc on the body piece.

This won't always be the case depending on what the rest of your set up look like, in general if you're below about 92.5% overall acc then you're probably in the area above. - the question should really be: when is usukane body better than haubergeon+1?

that one is harder to answer (it depends heavily on what else you're using since they are very close.)

for sam it allows 6 - hit and 3% more haste so it's haste vs attack and I don't see many people taking o kotes over dusk gloves, while for nin would be different I think.

[Amele]

for sam it allows 6 - hit and 3% more haste so it's haste vs attack and I don't see many people taking o kotes over dusk gloves, while for nin would be different I think.

If you have an Usukane Haramaki, chances are good you have access to Usukane Sune-Ate as well (as such, it doesn't actually help you shift haste for store TP) - although if for some reason you decided *not* to get sune-ate or don't have regular access to salvage content, then you're right.

what it would let a sam do is rearrange their merits since they would no longer need 5/5 store TP in Category 1.

for monk and ninja the 6 store TP on body alone is enough to save one or more hits in most common configurations for little/no loss of accuracy depending on previous body. (it actually makes monks more accurate, etc.)

[jfive]

SAM question-

Samurai 2hr. Every ws is at 100%tp or 300%tp. Was doing a Byakko the other day w/ my LS, and I SA gekko'd it to finish it off for my first WS. Doing the same amount of damage I would have done with a 300tp hagun ws. Any ideas?

[Tan]

I believe its 300%, 200% 100%, but the TP cost for each WS is 100% each time. The only premise I have for this is after 4+ years of playing SAM my first WS of Meikyo Shishui is always the strongest.

[jibini]

He also spent more on items than you are likely to make on ODS 75% of the time. It's novelty at best. Still neat though.

He didn't use any on the Aura Statue fight though, which was the I tried to do with no success at all.

[Amele]

I believe its 300%, 200% 100%, but the TP cost for each WS is 100% each time. The only premise I have for this is after 4+ years of playing SAM my first WS of Meikyo Shishui is always the strongest.

^ this. this is slightly different behavior than sekkanoki (sekka is a 100TP ws regardless of current TP) but, like sekka, TP Bonus effects don't seem to apply to Meikyo Shisui. (I think it might be worth macroing in a 'better' weapon for MS, given it's about to hand you 300tp anyway)

[jfive]

Just curious seeing my first ws doing 300 tp damage. Haven't really tested the last 2 ws's on sam 2hr. Anyone else have any input?

[ringthree]

We're discussing 7.5minutes vs 5 minutes, at best. Please don't compare a 15min timer vs a 5min timer as that has -0- relevance to this discussion.

As for Salvage, sometimes I tank, sometimes I let others tank, we switch it up. If you actually read my comment however, I even specifically mentioned Zhayolm, I don't know how you do Salvage, but I prefer to actually pop an NM that drops 35s, so we usually fully unlock 3 players and don't spend a lot of time farming extra cells for everyone else. I was specifically referring to this. Arrapago and SSR you could quite easily end up with less gear than tanks (unless your "sameish gear priority" actually means you roll against a tank and take the cell before them, which has other problems I won't get into), and thus do less damage with a weaponskill.

In the end, I'm done with this topic...it takes a bit more creativity and skill perhaps to make use of Shiki, but personally, I think using Blade Bash on cooldown is rather wasteful. It is -nice- to be able to use it more often, I fully support putting 4/5 into it for a 7.5min cooldown so you can use it more often, but I think you are shortchanging the Samurai job to ignore the many uses Shiki has. Bring a DRK and your stuns as a Samurai won't even be noticed.

It doesn't really take creativity or skill to "make full use of Shikikoyo", it's just another job ability. Giving someone TP and saying Hey make a skillchain with me isn't some kind of ground breaking achievement really.

That being said, no one is attacking you, they are just disagreeing with you. Pretty much everyone has said go with what you think is best, so no need to get upset just because people think an alternative is better.

In Salvage and Einherjar you really need to kill fast for pretty much everything, and to me holding TP is antithetical to that, even if you can get a boost of some SC damage every 15 minutes. To me, the difference between a 5 minute cooldown on Blade Bash and a SC every 15 mintues just is not a good trade off. More stuns are always good, and Virus is even better.

[ringthree]

If you have an Usukane Haramaki, chances are good you have access to Usukane Sune-Ate as well (as such, it doesn't actually help you shift haste for store TP) - although if for some reason you decided *not* to get sune-ate or don't have regular access to salvage content, then you're right.

what it would let a sam do is rearrange their merits since they would no longer need 5/5 store TP in Category 1.

for monk and ninja the 6 store TP on body alone is enough to save one or more hits in most common configurations for little/no loss of accuracy depending on previous body. (it actually makes monks more accurate, etc.)

Ah ha! Now you can help me with the ultimate question: Normal haste set up for SAM or Usukane set-up? My SAM has standard issue haste gear, no HQ dusk, no Speed Belt, and just W. Turban. Which is going to be better?

[Amele]

Ah ha! Now you can help me with the ultimate question: Normal haste set up for SAM or Usukane set-up? My SAM has standard issue haste gear, no HQ dusk, no Speed Belt, and just W. Turban. Which is going to be better?

full usukane is 13% haste (8%+5%) and assuming for a minute we're talking non-drg sub, you will end up with about total haste% of about 17%.

in your case right now, you've probably got.. 13% haste from your head,hands,body,legs,feet. (w.turban,b.haidate,either dusk gloves or fuma's depending on how you built your six hit setup) so you will see a net change between your default sam/war setup and the full usukane sam of 0% haste.

you will however, gain a fuckton of accuracy and a fuckton of evasion. you lose a tiny bit of dex. haste, and attack stay the same, you gain strength (so you actually net a little bit of attack).

if you use usukane sune-ate instead of a hachiman piece the situations are somewhat closer (for one thing, you now lose 2% haste and the accuracy bonus is smaller, the attack difference is actually a slight loss now, etc.)

overall; the improvement from your listed gear to 5/5 usukane is tremendous, the set is better in every relevant stat except crit rate.


If we start adding other rare pieces (ace's helm, etc) and hybridizing the sets, it gets situational fast, but the baseline is pretty clear cut.

[ringthree]

full usukane is 13% haste (8%+5%) and assuming for a minute we're talking non-drg sub, you will end up with about total haste% of about 17%.

in your case right now, you've probably got.. 13% haste from your head,hands,body,legs,feet. (w.turban,b.haidate,either dusk gloves or fuma's depending on how you built your six hit setup) so you will see a net change between your default sam/war setup and the full usukane sam of 0% haste.

you will however, gain a fuckton of accuracy and a fuckton of evasion. you lose a tiny bit of dex. haste, and attack stay the same, you gain strength (so you actually net a little bit of attack).

if you use usukane sune-ate instead of a hachiman piece the situations are somewhat closer (for one thing, you now lose 2% haste and the accuracy bonus is smaller, the attack difference is actually a slight loss now, etc.)

overall; the improvement from your listed gear to 5/5 usukane is tremendous, the set is better in every relevant stat except crit rate.


If we start adding other rare pieces (ace's helm, etc) and hybridizing the sets, it gets situational fast, but the baseline is pretty clear cut.

Sorry, should have mentioned that, I have Usukane hands, legs and feet, and I am working on the O. Ingots for the head.

Should I use the Usukane Somen over W. Turban on SAM in a straight comparison?

[Amele]

I would use the head, yes. I would not use the hands without the full set except on MMJ lurker and similar.

I would not use the legs over b.haidate until it was time to move to the full set, although the legs are second only to hachiryu pants for ws.

[ringthree]

I would use the head, yes. I would not use the hands without the full set except on MMJ lurker and similar.

I would not use the legs over b.haidate until it was time to move to the full set, although the legs are second only to hachiryu pants for ws.

That was my conclusion about the other bits, but for the head I was still leaning toward W. Turban before I saw you mention the Usukane head being better before.

[Amele]

That was my conclusion about the other bits, but for the head I was still leaning toward W. Turban before I saw you mention the Usukane head being better before.

it depends a bit on whether you're acc capped or not (and whether you buy nagamaki's accuracy numbers or not) but if you aren't and do respectively, the usukane somen will be better by a fair margin.

[Tricen]

So I looked at THF merits in cat1... Triple is obvious to 5... But the other 5? Is it worth it to shorten SA TA timers or is it better to shorten flee timers?

[fishstix]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/image...ine=1219302211

Is this Maat? or Colonel Sanders? xD

[Valisk]

Is this Maat? or Colonel Sanders? xD

Looks like a bucket of chicken under his arm.

[Callisto]

So I looked at THF merits in cat1... Triple is obvious to 5... But the other 5? Is it worth it to shorten SA TA timers or is it better to shorten flee timers?

I guess it depends what you do with it the most, for something like Dynamis pulling the Flee timer would probably be nice, otherwise maybe making TA shorter so that it can come closer to keeping pace with your TP building would be pretty helpful I'd think. Note I've never taken THF past 39 so I may be way off, but that's what seems logical to me.

[FailureMidgard]

It doesn't really take creativity or skill to "make full use of Shikikoyo", it's just another job ability. Giving someone TP and saying Hey make a skillchain with me isn't some kind of ground breaking achievement really.

That being said, no one is attacking you, they are just disagreeing with you. Pretty much everyone has said go with what you think is best, so no need to get upset just because people think an alternative is better.

In Salvage and Einherjar you really need to kill fast for pretty much everything, and to me holding TP is antithetical to that, even if you can get a boost of some SC damage every 15 minutes. To me, the difference between a 5 minute cooldown on Blade Bash and a SC every 15 mintues just is not a good trade off. More stuns are always good, and Virus is even better.

You're still missing my point. It does take skill and awareness and quick decision making to use it properly. You hit meditate then a lvl 5 petrify or sleepga goes off in Einherjar...Shiki some TP to someone....you double attack a mob and hit 120 tp at 2%...don't WS expecting it to die any second, then dmg suddenly slows down for some odd reason and you find yourself at 160...then hit the next mob you engage once after that and are over 170, use Shiki.

If you're using it properly, it gives your group extra WSes -and- SCs. As for Einherjar/Limbus [lowman], I don't know if most groups have people Opo/Sleep pot or not, but the mere fact people can enter with TP that otherwise wouldn't beats 2.5sec off Blade Bash on it's own.

Blade Bash is great...but Shiki gives your character so much more versatility, and adds damage to the group. If you want more stuns, why not bring a DRK or BLU?