Randomer Question Thread

[Bakthi]

Herder's Subligar is supposedly 10 pet accuracy, but I haven't seen any tests, and don't even remember where I saw that. I figure that even a few pet accuracy is probably going to help more than 5 attack. Plus my inventory is so fucked thanks to BLM + COR + BRD + gear obsessiveness, and I'm not going to /toss Herder's, so using it instead of republigar is Total Inventory +1 while on DRG, which is important. Also, it's the bone/beetle subligar model, so it's somewhat more modest/non-stupid-looking tights.

I guess I should really stop being lazy and parse them on BST to make sure.

Replying to myself, but I finally got a chance to do some parsing. I was in an East Ronfaure (S) party with a Galka DRG. We were both /WAR, and had similar gear, except he had a republigar and I had the Herder's. His real level was a few higher than mine, but I hope that doesn't matter. Also, he had been killing before I arrived, and I did die and thus have to re-power-up my wyvern, but even if that affects pet acc, it should only be for about 10 of the fights.

We exp'd for a few hours. The parser (DirectParse) says it was 104 battles, but it also says we only killed 13 Ladybugs, so that total is a bit low. The Galka's wyvern accuracy was 86.06%, and my wyvern came in at 89.26%. The level fluctuated between 37 and 40 as we kept bringing in new people for sync (it started with BRD/COR + 3 DDs and eventually became a full party).

If it's percentage-based, looks like it's about 3%, although for most of the party it looked more like 5%. If it's fixed, then I have no idea, because I'm really not sure about base wyvern stats versus mob stats at any level. I still think I'm going to use the Herder's for a good long while.

[Pendulum]

I've always heard how brd is a great PL job.

I assume march is fairly useless at level 12, so you have them sing their highest march and minuet? The brd will only be lvl50 is it still worth using brd or would i just be better off eating food and using the account's smn75 with limitless mp?

[Amele]

With fighter's roll, it gets very very close to that. Without, it's closer to 65-70.

I'd still want to see a parse showing that; doing 70% damage in ws means an average ws in the 1400-1600 damage range*, which is a very high average for gkt even allowing for DAs on top of overwhelm, etc. for 75% you'd need to be pushing 1800+ average, which I don't really find credible regardless of how much DA you have.

(assumes ~25 seconds per regular weaponskill, 7.5 weaponskills per meditate cycle, 5 regular tp hits per ws)


*1400 if average regular hit is 100; 1600 if average regular hit is 120.

[Amele]

Are there any parse proofs or tests done on the crit+3% strap to show if it's a direct +3% added onto your parsed melee crit rate?

Added to that is if there's any tests that the 3% works on ranged attacks as well.

superficially it appeared to be a direct 3% increase to melee crit rate when I used one with soboro (vs. parses prior to having any grip) but I never set out to do a direct test.

I've not had an opportunity to test it yet on ranged attacks, but once my ranger is 65 I'll make a point of looking into it if you don't have an answer yet

[Kirschy]

For what it's worth, my SAM usualli parses 60-70% in WS damage compared to melee damage. Which is almost the opposite of my DRK.

[FailureMidgard]

I'd still want to see a parse showing that; doing 70% damage in ws means an average ws in the 1400-1600 damage range*, which is a very high average for gkt even allowing for DAs on top of overwhelm, etc. for 75% you'd need to be pushing 1800+ average, which I don't really find credible regardless of how much DA you have.

(assumes ~25 seconds per regular weaponskill, 7.5 weaponskills per meditate cycle, 5 regular tp hits per ws)


*1400 if average regular hit is 100; 1600 if average regular hit is 120.

25 seconds is a high estimate, 7.5 weaponskills is a low estimate. With fighter's roll, you're looking at 4 swings worth of delay per WS, and that is still on the higher side. If you're at 50% haste, your delay is 225, or under 4 seconds. Assuming 4 seconds swings :

4x4 or 16 seconds to reach 100 TP. With capped accuracy, it will average to 17 seconds to reach 100 TP. This is assuming a DA rate of 25%, which is actually low for /war with a war + fighter's roll (worst case roll outside of unlucky is 8%, which puts you at exactly 25). It's not that infrequent to have 100tp after 3 swings.
That is 8.8 WSes per meditate cycle before counting the TP from meditate, putting you at ~10.5 WSes per meditate cycle total. In this time, you have 44 normal swings assuming you never overshoot 100tp, probably closer to 47 normal swings. out of the 8.8 WSes.

If you assume you auto swing for 100 dmg, you have 4700 damage from auto-swings.
To hit 70% WS dmg with that, you only need 1050 WS average, which is not actually that high, with Fighter's Roll. 75% I listed as the upper cap, I've never actually seen that, but I have seen lower 70s.

There are a few other things skewing this though...if you take an AFK break, but still meditate while you're afk (or for that matter, any downtime at all between pulls) will up the % of your WS damage. So will blowing 2 hr (which I of course do when I'm parsing against others!). Any human error in being late to WS will err towards lower WS dmg %, however, any human error in being slow to engage/getting disengaged between pulls/etc will err towards a higher % WSes. I generally try my hardest to never have the first happen, I am more slack about the 2nd (if a mob is on someone else and I'm about to WS while another mob is being pulled, I choose overwhelm over auto engaging the next mob, which may be wrong, but meh).

Also, the more you go away from merit towards events that may have a pause in pulling...yea...just did apollyon NE, granted i 2hred 4 times, but with no corsair and generally poor play on my part with WSes (was eating/chatting on vent more than trying to optimize every bit of my damage..was also /nin, having to cast shadows makes me go above 100tp quite a bit), parsed 30.5% melee, 69.5% WS.

[Valyana]

I've always heard how brd is a great PL job.

I assume march is fairly useless at level 12, so you have them sing their highest march and minuet? The brd will only be lvl50 is it still worth using brd or would i just be better off eating food and using the account's smn75 with limitless mp?

Madrigal/Minuet from a BRD75 will turn any pre-40 job into a melee powerhouse. I've soloed a lot of subjobs that way.

With BRD50 the songs won't be as strong, but will still help a lot. You also won't have access to Ballad II, so once you get into the mid 20s you'll probably start running into MP issues.

[Vaxx]

With fighter's roll, it gets very very close to that. Without, it's closer to 65-70.

Agree with this statement, I usually parse my ws dmg on sam to be around 66%.

[Amele]

25 seconds is a high estimate, 7.5 weaponskills is a low estimate. With fighter's roll, you're looking at 4 swings worth of delay per WS, and that is still on the higher side. If you're at 50% haste, your delay is 225, or under 4 seconds. Assuming 4 seconds swings :

4x4 or 16 seconds to reach 100 TP. With capped accuracy, it will average to 17 seconds to reach 100 TP. This is assuming a DA rate of 25%, which is actually low for /war with a war + fighter's roll (worst case roll outside of unlucky is 8%, which puts you at exactly 25). It's not that infrequent to have 100tp after 3 swings.
That is 8.8 WSes per meditate cycle before counting the TP from meditate, putting you at ~10.5 WSes per meditate cycle total. In this time, you have 44 normal swings assuming you never overshoot 100tp, probably closer to 47 normal swings. out of the 8.8 WSes.

If you assume you auto swing for 100 dmg, you have 4700 damage from auto-swings.
To hit 70% WS dmg with that, you only need 1050 WS average, which is not actually that high, with Fighter's Roll. 75% I listed as the upper cap, I've never actually seen that, but I have seen lower 70s.

There are a few other things skewing this though...if you take an AFK break, but still meditate while you're afk (or for that matter, any downtime at all between pulls) will up the % of your WS damage. So will blowing 2 hr (which I of course do when I'm parsing against others!). Any human error in being late to WS will err towards lower WS dmg %, however, any human error in being slow to engage/getting disengaged between pulls/etc will err towards a higher % WSes. I generally try my hardest to never have the first happen, I am more slack about the 2nd (if a mob is on someone else and I'm about to WS while another mob is being pulled, I choose overwhelm over auto engaging the next mob, which may be wrong, but meh).

Also, the more you go away from merit towards events that may have a pause in pulling...yea...just did apollyon NE, granted i 2hred 4 times, but with no corsair and generally poor play on my part with WSes (was eating/chatting on vent more than trying to optimize every bit of my damage..was also /nin, having to cast shadows makes me go above 100tp quite a bit), parsed 30.5% melee, 69.5% WS.

autoswing of 100 is low for a merit situation - that's only a pdif average of something like 1.16 (514 attack). push it to something more realistic (~560 attack) and you're looking at an autoswing of 111, bringing the expected average up to 1660 for 70% and a prohibitive 2000 for 75%.

obviously outside of merit you can see all sorts of weird things - a situation where there's significant pull stoppage like some limbus zones is functionally the same as a continuous fight where you can't melee regularly (JoL/older style kirin, etc.) but these are generally the exception rather than the rule.

(also, the cast time on shadows has a similar effect to time off target relative to how much damage is contributed by meditate. 50% haste is also an aggressive haste value when considering fighter's roll, unless you're normally in the habit of having a double bard + corsair party; not that this affects your numbers, since 45% haste is almost exactly 4 seconds per swing)

[FailureMidgard]

autoswing of 100 is low for a merit situation - that's only a pdif average of something like 1.16 (514 attack). push it to something more realistic (~560 attack) and you're looking at an autoswing of 111, bringing the expected average up to 1660 for 70% and a prohibitive 2000 for 75%.

obviously outside of merit you can see all sorts of weird things - a situation where there's significant pull stoppage like some limbus zones is functionally the same as a continuous fight where you can't melee regularly (JoL/older style kirin, etc.) but these are generally the exception rather than the rule.

(also, the cast time on shadows has a similar effect to time off target relative to how much damage is contributed by meditate. 50% haste is also an aggressive haste value when considering fighter's roll, unless you're normally in the habit of having a double bard + corsair party; not that this affects your numbers, since 45% haste is almost exactly 4 seconds per swing)

Nah, I estimated the 4sec on purpose (while being lazy and doing no math), because 50 is a little high, but 4 sec is about right.

At 111:

111x47=5217.
5217/.3-5217=12173
12173/10.5=1160 average WS needed....you ignored all the rest of my math. I still think you are underestimating the # of WSes per meditate period with fighter's roll.

Anyway, I think everything outside of merits starts to lean more and more towards higher WS % values (a lot of my parses are from things like limbus/salvage/etc...I get stuck on bard way too often in merits, and if you want to talk about bird camps, feather tickle destroys any chance at a high WS %age), and I think it's more important to perform well in salvage/einherjar/whatever than in merits.

[Bishop1]

WS during hundred fist yes or no? I see some people WS and some people just keep punchin. Whats better?

[Cream Soda]

WS, don't boost.

[fren.]

What causes a Smn to get hate on a group of mobs that they wanna Astral Flow on?

We tried the astralburn and all 3 smn's wound up getting smashed. Is it a proximity issue?

[Aragon of Odin]

Dinged 75 PLD and trying to cap my Shield Skill now, read about where and how to do it just seem to be having a problem. I read about people bringing like 5 Pucks to the zone in DoR and just let them wale away on them but I'm finding even with 3 on me they hitting me too hard to last more then a couple min. Maybe I'm gearing wrong for it, not too sure. Also been going /RDM, when using Phalanx do you generally equip as much enhancing or just go with PLD's natural enhancing skill?
My Set up:
Chainsaw+1
Light Bucker (Chose this cause of the 5 Shield skill, should I go with a different shield?)
Bibiki Seashell
Koenig Schaller
Shield Torque
Buckler Earring
Parry Earring
Ares Cuirass (Should I go to Haub or stick with the Refresh/Vit?)
Koenig Handschuhs
Jelly Ring
BQR
Boxer's Mantle
Trance Belt
AF2 Legs
AF1 Feet

Also have a Brd with me, was trying Minne's but didn't notice a difference so switched to Ballad2/Paeon, this was just eyeballing though so not 100% sure. Just don't understand why I'm not able too handle as many as I read others handling at once. Any suggestions?

[Callisto]

Dinged 75 PLD and trying to cap my Shield Skill now, read about where and how to do it just seem to be having a problem. I read about people bringing like 5 Pucks to the zone in DoR and just let them wale away on them but I'm finding even with 3 on me they hitting me too hard to last more then a couple min. Maybe I'm gearing wrong for it, not too sure. Also been going /RDM, when using Phalanx do you generally equip as much enhancing or just go with PLD's natural enhancing skill?
My Set up:
Chainsaw+1
Light Bucker (Chose this cause of the 5 Shield skill, should I go with a different shield?)
Bibiki Seashell
Koenig Schaller
Shield Torque
Buckler Earring
Parry Earring
Ares Cuirass (Should I go to Haub or stick with the Refresh/Vit?)
Koenig Handschuhs
Jelly Ring
BQR
Boxer's Mantle
Trance Belt
AF2 Legs
AF1 Feet

Also have a Brd with me, was trying Minne's but didn't notice a difference so switched to Ballad2/Paeon, this was just eyeballing though so not 100% sure. Just don't understand why I'm not able too handle as many as I read others handling at once. Any suggestions?

Pucks actually hit pretty damn hard for their level, the people grabbing 5 at once were typically using a 2boxed RDM casting Phalanx II on them. You want to put Enhancing+ gear on for the actual cast of the spell, then go back to your normal gear. I would not use the Parrying Earring as a parry proc takes away a chance for a shield block.

As far as shield, I had tried a Light Buckler as well for the shield skill/buckler proc rate, they should hopefully make up for taking a bit more damage per block. And obviously, make sure you're casting Reprisal as often as it's up, and try to swap in some Haste when casting it to keep recasts low.

[Tomiko]

Dinged 75 PLD and trying to cap my Shield Skill now, read about where and how to do it just seem to be having a problem.

I capped mine in Boyahda Tree on Steelshells as Pld/Dnc. I occassionally pulled Korrigans but it was mainly 2 crabs at a time.

I just stacked defensive gear (M.legs & Ares's Cuirass for example) where I didn't have shield skill and used Curing Waltz to keep myself alive. If for some reason my TP was low I usually had full mp for cures so it was easy to stay alive. But with TP from Shield Mastery having TP was rarely an issue.

What causes a Smn to get hate on a group of mobs that they wanna Astral Flow on?

Using an offensive Blood Pact on a mob generates enmity and is considered an attack (kinda hard to word). Example: If you have sneak on and walk up to a mob and use a Pact on it you'll lose sneak before the pact even goes off.

[Aragon of Odin]

Not sure why I even used Parry earring, not engaging the mobs so it's not gonna proc but didn't have Ethereal so just threw something in there, also I don't have /Dnc, haven't even unlocked the job.

Was thinking of switching to the Master Shield (Size2 with +10 shield skill), pretty sure I was near capped block rate with Size 1 so wanna see if I can mitigate just a bit more damage.

Thanks for the advice.

[Max™]

/Dnc is godly on Pld dude, I was soloing the T robbers in Kuftal at 59 earlier out of curiousity/recapping shield after I dinged, with food and 300% Tp I'm pretty sure I could solo the VT ones.

Totally worth getting the sub up for shit like skilling/campaigning for I.R. shit/variety/longevity.

[Amele]

Nah, I estimated the 4sec on purpose (while being lazy and doing no math), because 50 is a little high, but 4 sec is about right.

At 111:

111x47=5217.
5217/.3-5217=12173
12173/10.5=1160 average WS needed....you ignored all the rest of my math. I still think you are underestimating the # of WSes per meditate period with fighter's roll.

Anyway, I think everything outside of merits starts to lean more and more towards higher WS % values (a lot of my parses are from things like limbus/salvage/etc...I get stuck on bard way too often in merits, and if you want to talk about bird camps, feather tickle destroys any chance at a high WS %age), and I think it's more important to perform well in salvage/einherjar/whatever than in merits.

my math was off - was neglecting to remove the autoswing damage from the total before determining per ws amounts. Is what I get for trying to do it quickly after a long day of work.

1160 is a very high average; but certainly possible :) I withdraw the argument.

(I was mostly thinking MMJ anyway; I almost never go to birds on my sam) but the biggest differences are when and how people use weaponskills; getting a killing blow with a ws will tend to inflate ws damage and personal parse amount - while hurting xp/hr slightly - but it's really common to see people doing this (because it increases personal parse amount!)

If I ever get to go to limbus on sam I'll pay closer attention to my %'s. I just hover closer to 45/55 tp/ws in merit on mmj so it seemed incredible to get to 30/70 or 25/75 in any configuration that wasn't nearly 'ws only'

[FailureMidgard]

my math was off - was neglecting to remove the autoswing damage from the total before determining per ws amounts. Is what I get for trying to do it quickly after a long day of work.

1160 is a very high average; but certainly possible I withdraw the argument.

(I was mostly thinking MMJ anyway; I almost never go to birds on my sam) but the biggest differences are when and how people use weaponskills; getting a killing blow with a ws will tend to inflate ws damage and personal parse amount - while hurting xp/hr slightly - but it's really common to see people doing this (because it increases personal parse amount!)

If I ever get to go to limbus on sam I'll pay closer attention to my %'s. I just hover closer to 45/55 tp/ws in merit on mmj so it seemed incredible to get to 30/70 or 25/75 in any configuration that wasn't nearly 'ws only'

1160 is very high for normal, it's right around expected range with 30%+ DA rate. Anyway, my WS gear also has room for improvement (need Osode, Hachiryu, HQ head), while upgrading my TP gear (Haub+1->Usukane) will actually lower the % of my damage that is auto-attack. And I'm lower haste than I should be.