Randomer Question Thread

[Isiolia]

It involves inviting the BRD to the pt and disbanding a lot. BRD songs don't suffer from level issues WHM spells do (protect 4 lasts ~10 mins on a lvl 20, haste wears very quickly, etc). So, Valor Minuet IV will give a lvl 10 and a lvl 75 +~54 attack (depending on the BRD and their gear, etc) and most importantly it will last the full time. 54 attack is huge at lvl 10 (I don't know all the math that well). BRD can also give highest ACC song too. Then, the BRD drops pt and can heal from outside. Another option is to use the highest Regen song. I'm not a BRD, and I only heard about this type of PL once, a long time ago.

Incidentally, this works with Blood Pacts as well.

[Terravcota]

If your songs wear off mid-EXP and you reinvite the BRD, you won't lose EXP as long as neither you nor the BRD uses any action on the mob while he's in party. Simple invite the BRD, turn away from the mob, have the BRD join the party, use the songs, then disband and continue killing.

I've PLed a lot of people with my bard and -never- knew that >.> Awesome information.

[Raineer]

Agreed, that would be what we'd call a protip.

[Meloria]

Yeah, a bard PL in qufim got us in and out very quickly. Wouldn't work if the party leader doesn't understand /pcmd add name though.

Regarding omega drops, we have more hats than anything else and 4 bodies in the 2 or so years we've been doing limbus. I've heard weird ideas that Omega has some set number of gun pods that he'll pop during a run and all of those need to be popped and killed in order to obtain a body, but I really think it just comes down to luck.

[Therin]

75 WAR/SAM, Great Axe (obviously), not merited, but with Fortitude Torque and fairly strong Steel Cyclone gear - Ares's Cuirass, etc., what combo should I use?

1) Perdu Voulge with Raging Rush

2) Martial Bhuj with Steel Cyclone

3) Perdu Voulge with Steel Cyclone

4) Martial Bhuj with Raging Rush

5) Fuck it and use my Algol with 8 Great Sword merits (lolz)

HALP I don't know what combo is best. Also, I assume Byakko's Axe is lesser than both of these other Great Axes, right?

[Suiram]

Has any BLU here ever tried Heat Breath on Temperance? Does it do 0, full damage, or partial damage?

Okay, just did Temperance and it does 0. Question now is for DRGs, do your wyvern's breath do 0 damage? Likewise for BST's if you use Funguar pets (forgive me if you never use funguar pets I don't know much about BST).

[Mugekuge]

75 WAR/SAM, Great Axe (obviously), not merited, but with Fortitude Torque and fairly strong Steel Cyclone gear - Ares's Cuirass, etc., what combo should I use?

1) Perdu Voulge with Raging Rush

2) Martial Bhuj with Steel Cyclone

3) Perdu Voulge with Steel Cyclone

4) Martial Bhuj with Raging Rush

5) Fuck it and use my Algol with 8 Great Sword merits (lolz)

HALP I don't know what combo is best. Also, I assume Byakko's Axe is lesser than both of these other Great Axes, right?

1 is what i use and recommend for merit parties.

[Bagel]

I like 0) Fort Axe and Raging Rush

[Ryushii]

I guess I don't understand the damage formula well: for ranged attacks, how would 1 point of STR compare in increasing damage to 1 point of ranged attack? This question is for both normal shots and WSes. Could anyone point me in the direction of a formula to look at?

it's.. highly complicated.

for the section you're wondering about. until your str is greater than the mobs' vit by twice the value of your ranged weapon's damage divided by 9 (fstr2 cap) then you will always do better adding 1 str vs 1 ratt.


if you're really curious, vzx has great documentation at http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

I'm afraid the only thing I don't understand is how ranged attack factors into pdf, but essentially (for xp mobs in this case; I'll worry about higher lvl NMs later), 2-3 STR will increase your fSTR2 value by 1, which would be comparable to raising your pDIF by 1, yes? So 2-3 STR is going to be = to however much ranged attack is required to raise pDIF by 1, yes? Could anyone explain pDIF to me, the only thing I got from that website was the whole variation part, and that it has something vaguely to do with the difference between your attack and the monster's defense.

[Amele]

I guess I don't understand the damage formula well: for ranged attacks, how would 1 point of STR compare in increasing damage to 1 point of ranged attack? This question is for both normal shots and WSes. Could anyone point me in the direction of a formula to look at?

it's.. highly complicated.

for the section you're wondering about. until your str is greater than the mobs' vit by twice the value of your ranged weapon's damage divided by 9 (fstr2 cap) then you will always do better adding 1 str vs 1 ratt.


if you're really curious, vzx has great documentation at http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

I'm afraid the only thing I don't understand is how ranged attack factors into pdf, but essentially (for xp mobs in this case; I'll worry about higher lvl NMs later), 2-3 STR will increase your fSTR2 value by 1, which would be comparable to raising your pDIF by 1, yes? So 2-3 STR is going to be = to however much ranged attack is required to raise pDIF by 1, yes? Could anyone explain pDIF to me, the only thing I got from that website was the whole variation part, and that it has something vaguely to do with the difference between your attack and the monster's defense.

no. not close at all

pdif is a value not greater than 2.4 - increasing by 0.01 adds 0.01 * ( D(weapon) + D(ammo) + Fstr2 ) increasing by 0.01 will take approximately 3-4 ranged attack depending on what you're fighting. (things with defense >500 will take more)

d(weapon)+d(ammo)+fstr2 is a very large number. increasing it by 1 adds approximately your pdif in additional damage. this will take 2 str (approximately). but has a cap.

so 1 str is always better than 1 ratt, and 1 str is typically better than 2 ratt. until you cap one or the other. (if you have a D total of say, 150. each 3-4 attack is worth ~1.5 damage. if your pdif is ~1.5 average then +1 fstr2 (2 str) is worth approximately 1.5 damage. etc)

the formula for cRatio is basically RATT/DEF - 0.025 * dLVL
pdif varies around that based on another equation that you don't have control over so it doesn't *really* matter until you try to calculate 'actual damage' and not just improvements.

[JigglyJam]

Is it more efficient damage and MP-wise to spam lower levels spells rather than higher level spells?

EX: Casting Aero + Stone on earthsday over Water II + Stone II in Yhoator Jungle on Yhoator Mandragoras.

I noticed the fights seemed faster and less MP was consumed. (placebo effect?) Is this always the case or was it a fluke? Enlighten me, I don't have too much experience with mage jobs.

EDIT: I also get tons of resists, at least half of my casts are 1/2 resisted. Does this change as I get higher in level?

[evilpaul]

Take the damge you did with each spell, and divide it by the MP cost. Compare the couple.

At higher levels, you can get more consistent resist rates. They either suck, or they're easy basically.

[Suiram]

Pretty sure damage/MP always improves as you go up in tier, assuming reasonable difference in INT. AM2 I believe fits in somewhere between tier 2 and tier 3? And yeah, that's if you don't feel like actually just dividing. As for accuracy, I wasn't comfortable with my resist rate until I was in my 50s personally (well I should say i wasn't comfortable 20~50, pre-20 I don't think I had any clue wtf I was doing ;x).

[VZX]

pdif is a value not greater than 2.4 - increasing by 0.01 adds 0.01 * ( D(weapon) + D(ammo) + Fstr2 ) increasing by 0.01 will take approximately 3-4 ranged attack depending on what you're fighting. (things with defense >500 will take more)

Don't forget he's talking about ranged attack. It caps at 3.0 on non-critical hit.

[Zarath]

I guess I don't understand the damage formula well: for ranged attacks, how would 1 point of STR compare in increasing damage to 1 point of ranged attack? This question is for both normal shots and WSes. Could anyone point me in the direction of a formula to look at?

it's.. highly complicated.

for the section you're wondering about. until your str is greater than the mobs' vit by twice the value of your ranged weapon's damage divided by 9 (fstr2 cap) then you will always do better adding 1 str vs 1 ratt.


if you're really curious, vzx has great documentation at http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

I'm afraid the only thing I don't understand is how ranged attack factors into pdf, but essentially (for xp mobs in this case; I'll worry about higher lvl NMs later), 2-3 STR will increase your fSTR2 value by 1, which would be comparable to raising your pDIF by 1, yes? So 2-3 STR is going to be = to however much ranged attack is required to raise pDIF by 1, yes? Could anyone explain pDIF to me, the only thing I got from that website was the whole variation part, and that it has something vaguely to do with the difference between your attack and the monster's defense.

no. not close at all

pdif is a value not greater than 2.4 - increasing by 0.01 adds 0.01 * ( D(weapon) + D(ammo) + Fstr2 ) increasing by 0.01 will take approximately 3-4 ranged attack depending on what you're fighting. (things with defense >500 will take more)

d(weapon)+d(ammo)+fstr2 is a very large number. increasing it by 1 adds approximately your pdif in additional damage. this will take 2 str (approximately). but has a cap.

so 1 str is always better than 1 ratt, and 1 str is typically better than 2 ratt. until you cap one or the other. (if you have a D total of say, 150. each 3-4 attack is worth ~1.5 damage. if your pdif is ~1.5 average then +1 fstr2 (2 str) is worth approximately 1.5 damage. etc)

the formula for cRatio is basically RATT/DEF - 0.025 * dLVL
pdif varies around that based on another equation that you don't have control over so it doesn't *really* matter until you try to calculate 'actual damage' and not just improvements.

I may add that pDif improvements become nicer on higher Base DMG weapons than improving fSTR on certain slots. I'd suggest hitting up the WHM melee thread and COR + Meat thread if you wish to learn a bit more, I did a lot of explaining about it not too long ago (should be near the end in both cases)

[amylea]

Sometimes when I'm bored in class I browse random LS front pages, and I noticed for some LS's, they always place their tanks behind Cerb. Is there some obvious reason that I'm missing?

[Haunted]

Sometimes when I'm bored in class I browse random LS front pages, and I noticed for some LS's, they always place their tanks behind Cerb. Is there some obvious reason that I'm missing?

not 100% sure, but i think it uses Scorching Slash instead of one of its other tp moves (Lava Spit or Sulfuric Breath i think, cant remember which)

[Amele]

pdif is a value not greater than 2.4 - increasing by 0.01 adds 0.01 * ( D(weapon) + D(ammo) + Fstr2 ) increasing by 0.01 will take approximately 3-4 ranged attack depending on what you're fighting. (things with defense >500 will take more)

Don't forget he's talking about ranged attack. It caps at 3.0 on non-critical hit.

good catch, thanks. doesn't really change the conclusions fortunately for me ! :X

[Therin]

Sometimes when I'm bored in class I browse random LS front pages, and I noticed for some LS's, they always place their tanks behind Cerb. Is there some obvious reason that I'm missing?

not 100% sure, but i think it uses Scorching Slash instead of one of its other tp moves (Lava Spit or Sulfuric Breath i think, cant remember which)

I've often wondered if this tactic would make him prefer Lash over Gates of Hades, but I've never tried it. I know wyrms prioritize flail over everything else.

Also - Scorching Lash (and Plague Swipe, for that matter) are hardly devastating, so it's also a good idea to have a tank move behind the mob for SATA occasionally. Sets hate nicely toward the beginning of the fight, or when hate transfers dramatically and you need to place it back on a tank who hasn't caught up with the others yet.

[Tricen]

Sometimes when I'm bored in class I browse random LS front pages, and I noticed for some LS's, they always place their tanks behind Cerb. Is there some obvious reason that I'm missing?

not 100% sure, but i think it uses Scorching Slash instead of one of its other tp moves (Lava Spit or Sulfuric Breath i think, cant remember which)

I've often wondered if this tactic would make him prefer Lash over Gates of Hades, but I've never tried it.

I'll let you know.




NO. Do NOT back tank Cerb during GoH. It only has like 2 TP moves to chose from so it's spamspamspam GOH from behind. But, until GoH, back tanking is a little safer, the flail type move absorbs 2 shadows, and he attacks only once per attack round iirc. So with elegy and slow, it's like *ustu* "K afk". But back tanking it is harmful if swallowed.