Axe/Axe > Axe/Sword?

[Ferien]

And for the whole /NIN sucks with GAxe, I'd prefer the protection of shadows, especially when wyverns can take you out in one fang rush.

Ironically, Third Eye is better than Utsusemi for Fang Rush (and the whole assortment of multihit WSes that merit mobs throw at us). I much prefer to have the whole thing be anticipated and leave Third Eye still up than take damage from it.

[IncredibleGulk]

i noticed TE absorbed all 3 attacks from goblin rush at the cost of 1 anticipated attack. does fang rush also only take 1 attack? would be much better than having 3 shadows sucked up

[shaddix]

How are you getting close to acc cap with a sword in xp?

[alt]

i noticed TE absorbed all 3 attacks from goblin rush at the cost of 1 anticipated attack. does fang rush also only take 1 attack? would be much better than having 3 shadows sucked up

Third Eye, for a long time now, has treated multiple-hit ws's as one attack. So it would probably be safe to assume so.

[Max™]

I'm a Rampager believer myself, no Perdu yet, but given how Rampager does vs Byakko's, I suspect it will be pretty comparable vs Perdu.

Fort is fun, ridiculously so at times, but Rampager gives much more consistent WS damage, and often times you waste a lot of TP with Fort because the difference between 80% TP and 130% Tp is the blink of an eye.

I've played around with Mbhuj in Meripo, it will match up with an average RR, but if you don't double/are firing at 100%, the random spikes RR gives and the misses SC randomly gives will leave it behind over time.

The DoT argument is retarded, it isn't like it was before the 2h update (when, lo and behold, well set up gaxers could still rape face) and the addition of Raging Rush rocking (yes, it siriusly fucking rocks) puts Gaxe War/Sam ahead of Axe/Joy at equivalent gear levels.

Will the Ebody Man/Ridill destroy my 3rd in line for Haidate 14% Haste Rampager swinging War?

I should hope so.

Will another Ebody Fort Torque/Gaxe War/Sam make the Man/Ridill fight tooth and nail for every % on the parser?

Yes, yes it will.

[Khajit]

WHile we're discussing thing would anyone mind telling me what would turn out better in most merit situations?
fortitude axe
perdu voulgue
I have the IS for the perdu but I don't want to waste a ton of IS on it if it cant even beat out my current fortitude.
I currently have about 17% haste if that matters. I usually go /nin since in a pickup the chances of someone dealing enough damage for me to not be in perma siegan isn't high enough for me to safely bring out hasso and i endup as an mp sponge instead.

[Wizerd]

WHile we're discussing thing would anyone mind telling me what would turn out better in most merit situations?
fortitude axe
perdu voulgue
I have the IS for the perdu but I don't want to waste a ton of IS on it if it cant even beat out my current fortitude.
I currently have about 17% haste if that matters. I usually go /nin since in a pickup the chances of someone dealing enough damage for me to not be in perma siegan isn't high enough for me to safely bring out hasso and i endup as an mp sponge instead.

I don't know exactly how DMG ratings really work against damage done, but since Fort Axe attacks ~1.5 on average, and Perdu ~1x on average (minus Double Attack traits/equipment), I view them as the same damage. (64 * 1.5 = 96, and Perdu is 96) However, Perdu has the added advantage of hidden attack/accuracy, so I'm a believer in Perdu and when watching a few WAR/SAMs I know play around with the two, Perdu always seems to outperform.

[Aragon of Odin]

For now 20-25k exp/hr seems to be the cap, and /Sam will not change that.

Not true, as far as what you believe to be the cap exp/hr is.

Over 30k/h is possible, and in my honest opinion I believe if anything the cap is about 35k/h fighting at Mamool Ja Staging point. With the only limiting factor being mob respawn time and the distance of pulls. Otherwise, I'd even believe close to 40k/h was possible.

Personally I've seen about 30-32k/h across 5 different PTs now. All of which were lacking some major points towards perfection and maximizing exp/h, whether it being a PT member DC'ing for a long period or competing with other PTs or not having equally decked DDs or there being a death, etc.

Sorry but when I stated that it was just a generalaztion of what I've found to be true on my server. At any given time you are looking at 2-3+ parties at the Mamool Ja Staging point and 3-4+ at Colibri camp. If you are lucky enough to get a level on the Colibri camp to your own party chances are that within an hour there will be another party there to camp on top of you, making it impossible to hit the 30-40k/hr cap.

[Bagel]

I'm a huge fan of Fort Axe. Don't have a Perdu Voulge to compare it to, but Byakko's is basically the same in terms of damage.

[Mugekuge]

WHile we're discussing thing would anyone mind telling me what would turn out better in most merit situations?
fortitude axe
perdu voulgue
I have the IS for the perdu but I don't want to waste a ton of IS on it if it cant even beat out my current fortitude.
I currently have about 17% haste if that matters. I usually go /nin since in a pickup the chances of someone dealing enough damage for me to not be in perma siegan isn't high enough for me to safely bring out hasso and i endup as an mp sponge instead.

I have done a lot of merits these last months with both Gaxes (at colibri and mamool camps) and comparing parses, Perdu Voulge has given me better results than F.Axe, Perdu is a bit better at least for me, i use RR on exp parties, imo Perdu worth the IS, you won't regret getting it. :D

[Ferien]

Fort Axe is so much more fun though.

[RKenshin]

Sorry but when I stated that it was just a generalaztion of what I've found to be true on my server. At any given time you are looking at 2-3+ parties at the Mamool Ja Staging point and 3-4+ at Colibri camp. If you are lucky enough to get a level on the Colibri camp to your own party chances are that within an hour there will be another party there to camp on top of you, making it impossible to hit the 30-40k/hr cap.

Nothing to be sorry for! I'm just pointing out something I believed to be false.

Actually on that topic, key exp points are almost always packed if not occupied by 1-2 PTs at most of the ideal times of the day on my server as well. Most of those PTs I mentioned before actually started off with competing groups in Mamool, it's just that 10-20 minutes of two BRDs and a roaming PT full of Provokers getting 95% of the mobs drives everyone out without fail. <.<

Darwinism wins for fast exp!

[aurik]

Last time I went to XP, there were 2 crappy camps on the middle level of Colibri. Within 10 minutes we had it to ourselves.

[Max™]

I'm a huge fan of Fort Axe. Don't have a Perdu Voulge to compare it to, but Byakko's is basically the same in terms of damage.

What I wanna know is, Rampager vs Perdu.

Rampager is the little unloved bastard great axe that could, and it parses better than Byakko's I've been told, so given that, I want to know how it stacks up against Perdu.

I have Mbhuj for Steel Cyclone, so Perdu would just get me killed faster dropping a 300 Tp to open Kirinburns.

Fort is fun, fun fun, but it's best for soloing with War/Dnc (yes, soloing, I can kick a Tough Phuabo's guts out with it, which is sexy for blood tanking Warrioring) or just screwing around/Kirin burning. (thing almost got me killed, but I did something like 6k Dmg, which is made of happy)

Perdu could be a goal I could shoot for, I missed the rush to do assaults and have only gotten to SP on pickup groups, but if anyone has Rampager/Perdu it would be nice to see them tested against each other, as I know my Rampager made me put the Byakko's in the Mog House for meriting.

[Aymee]

Edit: Forgot to put this in, in regards to a 6-hit setup. Person who responded to me is correct--don't think you need Askar body for it, but you do need to use a breads meal with the +StoreTP to get there otherwise (and use chiv vs pcc or torque yet?). A lot of people use carbonara anyway and don't even understand this benefit of it, lol. Whatever the exact number is, it's still an awesome setup to have going for you and something most don't realize WAR can do.

War/Sam might produce more spike damage but my overall DoT will crush him.

You mean the other way around, right? That it's more DoT but rampage spike dmg will do more in the end? ...Or do less? Wait no, it's neither of those. They're both perfectly plausible for merit, but seriously the DoT on /SAM is amusingly sick as well. Doing a double-critical for 300 300 on a colibri and seeing the chunk fall out of its hp bar is comical. Well actually, yea the DoT is going to be a little better with /nin, regardless of axes or axe/sword... but that's kinda what SAM does as a sub... you know, adds TP, gives you more WS and whatnot. This is why some people used it before hasso/seigan even.

So get off your high horse stop pretending that you're better then everyone and realize that a War who knows how to play their job and is geared towards that play style is gonna be able to perform with todays expectations in most given roles.

I'm on no highhorse here, nor is anyone else I don't think... we're just firm believers that war/nins that have nothing but a Ni macro, a gearswap macro and a rampage macro hardly counts as a playstyle. Anyone who takes WAR seriously enough to read threads like this or comment on them should know it's more complicated than that.

i will never take a /nin 2hander to a merit pt. that's ridiculous. in fact i won't take a war/nin at all without a ridill

...You would have a terrible time making PTs on my server then... WAR/SAM is like a sin on Garuda unless you're one of the few NAs that has a Bravura and ever uses it (hi guys!). Never taking a war/nin without a ridill might be a tad extreme, but yea I would never want a 2-hander /nin in a merit PT unless maaaaybe it was mamool/puks (some AOE) and even then only if there was no NIN or PLD or 2x other WAR/NINs there to bounce hate.

I run a /sea All WAR 75 sometimes, just for fun... it makes me cry how much /nin still rules the universe. If they all had ridills, meh... but I know they don't. Even if I had one, I'd probably have more fun /sam.
Like... right now... *searches*...
36 75WARs...... 1 is /THF (a farming seacom), one is /BLM (to HP), one is /DNC (and doing campaign), 31 are WAR/NIN, 15 of which are in PTs of some sort and only 5 are in Whitegate. Wow that makes me cry. I know this is hardly a scientific method, but it's still depressing.

What I wanna know is, Rampager vs Perdu.

Hmm. Now I want to do this, too... which is ironic given how many of these I've NPC'd for gil. I've always just looked at the low base dmg on it and gone "sigh...". Honestly, I've never seen a single person using the thing. Ever. Or even equipping it around town... nothing.

+9 base dmg +18attk +3acc vs +6% crits. 11.43 DPS vs 10.36.
That's +10.3% over the Rampager.

NIN is the job that abuses the +crit latent weapons the most, so I'm going to ramble a little.
Senju is base 38 and are overwhelmingly used for NIN--if we're going to go with generic curve of sacrificing base dmg for the same critical rate bonus (in other words, a DPS adjustment)...

10.04 * 1.103 = 11.07ish.
The only Katanas with a DPS over that are lvl4 and 5 relic. The old standard was fudo main, so let's use that for numbers.
That's... 10.31 vs 10.04 (with +6% crits) is +2.6% DPS.

... This isn't a judgment about whether it'd work out well or not, but theoretically that means you'd have to give Rampager 4x the benefit of the doubt on dmg based on the gap in DPS. Well wait... Senju's +6% is only on mainhand, so actually that gives it an effective +5.2%DPS (x2), so twice the gap. Still.

You're giving up twice the difference in DPS that a NIN surrenders using their +6% crit weapon if you use rampager vs perdu, and you sill lose the +attk+acc bonus. Honestly, I don't like those numbers, so I see no reason to spend my time unlocking a Rampager to run a lot of tests that would need controlled situations to compare to how much I've used Perdu (and Byakko's before it). Again, this is not a judgment.

[Capo]

you only need 22 store tp for a 6 hit with 504 delay, dont need to eat any "breads meal"

/sam(15), rajas(5), brutal(1) and chiv chain(1) will get you there, if you have askar body you can drop the chiv chain for pcc or torque, or i guess you could use store tp food instead of askar body, but thats not really cost-efficient at bird camps

[Wizerd]

you only need 22 store tp for a 6 hit with 504 delay, dont need to eat any "breads meal"

/sam(15), rajas(5), brutal(1) and chiv chain(1) will get you there, if you have askar body you can drop the chiv chain for pcc or torque, or i guess you could use store tp food instead of askar body, but thats not really cost-efficient at bird camps

You can drop the Chiv Chain for a PCC if you plan on hitting 2+ hit Raging Rushes more often that not can't you? Or would the loss of 1 Store TP result in more than a 1 TP difference when dealing with 99-100ish? (Yay for multi-hit WSes)

[Capo]

21 store tp would be 16.6 per hit so 83 from 5 hits. so yeah if you are using RR fulltime you can drop the chain, never really considered that, guess i can sell mine now :3

[shaddix]

1 75 war/sam on my server yay!

[Ferien]

1 75 war/sam on my server yay!

4 on mine, and one of them is me 8) I switch between /SAM and /NIN pretty often, depending on the situation, though since I swapped my Sattva for Rajas /SAM has seen much, much more usage than before. I think it's safe to say that once I finally get Perdu it'll be even better. For now it's Fort and Choppa though, and I'm quite happy with the results.