Anon vs. Scientology

[Furtwangler]

I'm not one for debates like this so I'll just go back on the original topic, I've been checking that wiki in the OP every day or so, and lol'd at 2 of the phone numbers in particular:

Orange County: 714-544-4577 <-- Wrong? It's some guy's house, got REALLY angry. (holy fuck just realised it was wrong.. was pranking this guy for AGES lmao.. poor cunt)

and

Salt Lake City: 801-485-9992 * << Phone unplugged due to aids and 20 minutes nonstop rickrolling.

[archibaldcrane]

What's the big deal anyway? It's a small group of rich people pissing their money away.

Most scientologists weren't rich when they joined, and they are very poor now. Most are like the 3 guys in that youtube trying to get the guy to admit his sins, just regular people that get sucked in.

[Kaelan]

and focus on the fact that scientology fucking sucks.

I'm not sure why you're labeling atheists as a group, but I don't think anyone on this thread is debating this.

Edit: Rofl, that video is amazing. Can't wait to see what happens next

link

That's great, but where does it stand against Islamic suicide-bombers and Buddhist suicide-protesters who kill themselves in accordance with their religious beliefs?

I agree that refusing necessary medical care is akin to blowing yourself up or lighting yourself on fire. (same goes for teaching/directing people to do so)

So, what's your point exactly? That we should just let Scientology continue to kill people because other religions kill people? Why are you arguing with us?

I think the people that are arguing against what me or Beckwin or whoever else is saying is missing the point here. Scientology is retarded. We agree on that, that's not the problem. I'm glad the chans are doing something useful for a change, I hope they get somewhere, anywhere with it, if only to expose it more for the fraud it is and let the "real world" close it down.

What we're saying here is if you're going to see it like that, then don't forget to not arbitrarily protect your own convictions (or other people's similar, but more "accepted" convictions) from the same kind of reasoning. The problem is whenever you criticize someone for behaving in some way or doing something, if you behave the exact same way or by the exact same principles you're criticizing, you, well, look like a hypocrite. It's the same reason most halfway intelligent atheists(even the more aggressive ones like Christopher Hitchens) say the existence of God is "extremely unlikely" or "statistically very improbable" or something of the sort instead of saying "absolutely, completely impossible". If we said we knew it was completely impossible without any concreted evidence for it, we'd be just as bad as the people we're criticizing.

Not to make a huge tangent here, but to take another example: it's like this other time I was watching stuff on youtube and found an episode of the Ali-G show about religion. If you've never seen Sasha play that character before, you can think of it being the same basic idea of Borat - he acts in a way that is completely ridiculous and says things no sane educated person would ever say. But that's not why he's funny - the reason it's funny is when you see people's reactions to what he says. Anyway they had a bunch of people (an atheist, a jew, a catholic preacher and someone else I forget) and at one point he said something ridiculous (that was obviously provoking the preacher) about most nuns working part time as strippers because he went to this one strip club and there was a "nun" there stripping. And then, to defend himself, the preacher tries to act all reasonable and educated and says(roughly paraphrased): "but you can't say that, how can you arbitrarily believe any of your claims when it's not documented or supported by any kind of evidence". Without realizing that that was exactly what he himself was doing. Regardless of how obviously ridiculous (on purpose, of course) Sasha was being, that preacher doesn't have any license to criticize him for it if he's going to act in the exact same way himself. If he's prepared to say that about what Ali was saying, he needs to be prepared to hold his own beliefs to the same standard.

[Senoska]

What's the big deal anyway? It's a small group of rich people pissing their money away. For colossally stupid reasons, sure, but I'm gonna have to agree with the sentiments about other religions being similarly as stupid. Mormonism is another recent development, and they've got some batshit stuff going on too. Special underwear, gold tablets in a buried hat, your own planet in the afterlife, church influence on parishioner's income, etc. I suppose there's something noble in trying to cut it off before it can gain too strong a foothold, but the bottom line is that the concept isn't so different from just about every other religion- it's a means of control, thusly power, via answering fears of the unknown. And if you can't see money's relation to power and vice-versa, you'd be woefully ignorant of the society and world we currently live in.

This is why the "church" is worse than most others.

suplol

link

That's great, but where does it stand against Islamic suicide-bombers and Buddhist suicide-protesters who kill themselves in accordance with their religious beliefs?

I agree that refusing necessary medical care is akin to blowing yourself up or lighting yourself on fire. (same goes for teaching/directing people to do so)

So, what's your point exactly? That we should just let Scientology continue to kill people because other religions kill people? Why are you arguing with us?

I think his point was rather clear, he isn't saying Scientology isn't bad, I mean come on anyone can see the harm it is doing, however I think that he is saying that other religions have bad things that go along with them. Even things such as Christianity has bad things that go along with them. From burning people alive to killing woman and children just because.

IMHO the only reason people see the bullshit with Scientology is because it doesn't have the element of time to hide behind. People didnt grow up being told it was true, and you cant say "well we don't know because it was so long ago" etc. But thats just my personal belief.

I think the people that are arguing against what me or Beckwin or whoever else is saying is missing the point here. Scientology is retarded. We agree on that, that's not the problem. I'm glad the chans are doing something useful for a change, I hope they get somewhere, anywhere with it, if only to expose it more for the fraud it is and let the "real world" close it down.

What we're saying here is if you're going to see it like that, then don't forget to not arbitrarily protect your own convictions (or other people's similar, but more "accepted" convictions) from the same kind of reasoning. The problem is whenever you criticize someone for behaving in some way or doing something, if you behave the exact same way or by the exact same principles you're criticizing, you, well, look like a hypocrite. It's the same reason most halfway intelligent atheists(even the more aggressive ones like Christopher Hitchens) say the existence of God is "extremely unlikely" or "statistically very improbable" or something of the sort instead of saying "absolutely, completely impossible". If we said we knew it was completely impossible without any concreted evidence for it, we'd be just as bad as the people we're criticizing.

Not to make a huge tangent here, but to take another example: it's like this other time I was watching stuff on youtube and found an episode of the Ali-G show about religion. If you've never seen Sasha play that character before, you can think of it being the same basic idea of Borat - he acts in a way that is completely ridiculous and says things no sane educated person would ever say. But that's not why he's funny - the reason it's funny is when you see people's reactions to what he says. Anyway they had a bunch of people (an atheist, a jew, a catholic preacher and someone else I forget) and at one point he said something ridiculous (that was obviously provoking the preacher) about most nuns working part time as strippers because he went to this one strip club and there was a "nun" there stripping. And then, to defend himself, the preacher tries to act all reasonable and educated and says(roughly paraphrased): "but you can't say that, how can you arbitrarily believe any of your claims when it's not documented or supported by any kind of evidence". Without realizing that that was exactly what he himself was doing. Regardless of how obviously ridiculous (on purpose, of course) Sasha was being, that preacher doesn't have any license to criticize him for it if he's going to act in the exact same way himself. If he's prepared to say that about what Ali was saying, he needs to be prepared to hold his own beliefs to the same standard.

Also, huge QFT.

[BRP]

Crusades had less to do with religion and more to do with ignorant people who didn't shower and threw shit into the streets who happen to worship that religion. Those were the Middle Ages, fuck if anything from then should be considered relevant. And Crusades don't really happen any more(in before Middle Eastern wars hurr).

Scientology hides it's facts when you join and makes you pay an insane amount of money to be a real member of the religion. It's a bit extreme.

[levish]

This is why the "church" is worse than most others.

This is why Catholicism / Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse

And if ANYONE thinks that there are more people pissing away money in Scientology I offer nothing less than ZOMG LULZ if you start poking around the figures that Catholics handle.

Cult is such a nasty word, Basically organized cults that are socially acceptable = Religions

[BRP]

Money isn't heavily required in Christianity. There donations and individual churches may organize drives. No one is spending thousands on courses. Compare a what a church does for a community to Scientology. One claims to help people and other actually does.

And again, Crusades happened long before many other human fuck ups that we don't hold other people liable for(forgiven). A traditional Crusade is outside of the realm of possibility.

[Charla]

This is why the "church" is worse than most others.

This is why Catholicism / Christianity was several orders of magnitude worse about a thousand years ago lolhyperbole

fixed.

[Parshias]

Money isn't heavily required in Christianity. There donations and individual churches may organize drives. No one is spending thousands on courses. Compare a what a church does for a community to Scientology. One claims to help people and other actually does.

You forgot to mention that donating in Catholicism (I don't have any experience with other denominations of Christianity's donating practices) is completely voluntary and not required. The most I've donated as a Catholic is a six pack of Campbell's Chunky Soup during a canned soup drive, not thousands upon thousands of dollars before I find out that Jesus was, in fact, super keen.

[Maxxthepenguin]

link

That's great, but where does it stand against Islamic suicide-bombers and Buddhist suicide-protesters who kill themselves in accordance with their religious beliefs?

I agree that refusing necessary medical care is akin to blowing yourself up or lighting yourself on fire. (same goes for teaching/directing people to do so)

You can NOT say the Buddhist suicide protesters are even close to the Islamic suicide bombers. They are fighting off a continual invasion where they still live and an attempt to eradicate their 'religion' (it is not a religion, it is not faith based). They are also going strictly against the Buddhist views and central philosophy of "cause no harm to yourself or other sentient beings."

This is why the "church" is worse than most others.

This is why Catholicism / Christianity is several orders of magnitude worse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

Hurray religion haters!

[levish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

Hurray religion haters!

I r not commie, and I know it was a thousand years ago.

My point was to illustrate that acceptable cults (religions) have commited far more henious crimes in the pursuit of Christianizing the world.

The Catholic Religion casting the proverbial first stone is hipocracy at its finest.

While it does have some great teachings, its a far from perfect religion considering it's official stances on certain issues.

btw I am Christian

[Parshias]

So remember, people: bad things happened in the past, so it is our duty to do absolutely nothing about bad things in the present. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical.

[Charla]

As I hope anyone can see from the direction this thread went, only Anonymous can actually get anything done around here, and they will only do it for the lulz.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Actually I'm all for taking Scientology down. It hurts far more people than it helps, which is my criteria for saying GTFO.

My Stalin thing was just me being sick of people saying 'look what religion has done! Its so evil!'

BTW I'm glad Anonymous is putting it's power of Legion to good instead of raiding kids games.

[Creeps]

I find it odd that Hubbard was a Science Fiction writer.
They're all believing in one of his books is my guess.

Wait a minute... I THINK YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING HERE

holy shit, general forums are making my brain hurt today.

[Beckwin]

link

That's great, but where does it stand against Islamic suicide-bombers and Buddhist suicide-protesters who kill themselves in accordance with their religious beliefs?

I agree that refusing necessary medical care is akin to blowing yourself up or lighting yourself on fire. (same goes for teaching/directing people to do so)

You can NOT say the Buddhist suicide protesters are even close to the Islamic suicide bombers. They are fighting off a continual invasion where they still live and an attempt to eradicate their 'religion' (it is not a religion, it is not faith based). They are also going strictly against the Buddhist views and central philosophy of "cause no harm to yourself or other sentient beings."

Actually, I can say that they're close in the sense that these people are convinced to kill themselves by their respective religions.

So remember, people: bad things happened in the past, so it is our duty to do absolutely nothing about bad things in the present. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical.

Are you really gonna conveniently overlook the rampant spree of little-boy diddling and brainwashing like http://youtube.com/watch?v=8bB2rt3IKJc. Let's not forget the hate-mongers as well.

The bottom line is that this whole Scientology raid is sniping an easy target.

[Charla]

Kids' games? I thought until now they only raided Habbo and Hal Turner.
*checks wikipedia*
Holy crap, Habbo really does say it's "aimed at teenagers". I thought it was all the same people that use Second Life to cyber with low-poly furries.

[Jefe]

Not to make a huge tangent here, but to take another example: it's like this other time I was watching stuff on youtube and found an episode of the Ali-G show about religion. If you've never seen Sasha play that character before, you can think of it being the same basic idea of Borat - he acts in a way that is completely ridiculous and says things no sane educated person would ever say. But that's not why he's funny - the reason it's funny is when you see people's reactions to what he says. Anyway they had a bunch of people (an atheist, a jew, a catholic preacher and someone else I forget) and at one point he said something ridiculous (that was obviously provoking the preacher) about most nuns working part time as strippers because he went to this one strip club and there was a "nun" there stripping. And then, to defend himself, the preacher tries to act all reasonable and educated and says(roughly paraphrased): "but you can't say that, how can you arbitrarily believe any of your claims when it's not documented or supported by any kind of evidence". Without realizing that that was exactly what he himself was doing. Regardless of how obviously ridiculous (on purpose, of course) Sasha was being, that preacher doesn't have any license to criticize him for it if he's going to act in the exact same way himself. If he's prepared to say that about what Ali was saying, he needs to be prepared to hold his own beliefs to the same standard.

Also, huge QFT.

"Huge QFT"? That's an irrelevant conclusion. And you can see it clearly by plugging w/e subject you want into their premises. Here, Beck and Kae, et al. (even you) are saying:

1. X and Y share similarities (actually they meant are equal, but w/e).

2. Y does shitty things, but it shares similarities with X.

3. Therefore, one must conclude that X & Y = the same.

The cult, Scientology, is far from asking people to make a "leap of faith." I'm no connoisseur, but charging people, to the point of going bankrupt, to "learn" how to achieve a "higher understanding" (is not even that, I can't think of anything since I just woke up) is just taking advantage of them; to force mentally ill people to disregard medical attention is a crime. Anything cult, group, etc. that violates any natural law (read: hurting others, oneself physically or mentally) should be avoided, end of story.

Edit: clarity, etc.

[Maxxthepenguin]

link

That's great, but where does it stand against Islamic suicide-bombers and Buddhist suicide-protesters who kill themselves in accordance with their religious beliefs?

I agree that refusing necessary medical care is akin to blowing yourself up or lighting yourself on fire. (same goes for teaching/directing people to do so)

You can NOT say the Buddhist suicide protesters are even close to the Islamic suicide bombers. They are fighting off a continual invasion where they still live and an attempt to eradicate their 'religion' (it is not a religion, it is not faith based). They are also going strictly against the Buddhist views and central philosophy of "cause no harm to yourself or other sentient beings."

Actually, I can say that they're close in the sense that these people are convinced to kill themselves by their respective religions.

No, they're convinced to kill themselves DESPITE Buddhism and they mostly know it.

[Day]

Man you guys always gotta suck the fun right out of making fun of something like Scientology. I'm open minded, and respect others beliefs but still, ello fucking elle @ these guys... mainly Tom Cruise. Fuck him.