Opinions for Job Adjustments

[The Q]

/facepalm

I give up.

[Kenji]

Wrong, it isn't a crutch, it's a necessity for a lot of the content I play with. Take big bomb for example - My redmage duo partner just has to keep debuffs up. Aside from vulcanian impact/hellstorm, I take very few, if any, normal hits during the fight between evasion and blinking. No amount of blood tanking buff will ever make up for this, EVER.

I feel bad for you if you think thieves can only tank charybdis, really, I do. In any lowman content I can out-tank a war, ninja, and hell even a paladin (Lowman content without capped accuracy that is, like LBC) - But it's highly dependant on blink and haste, and the ability to keep hate because we take no blood damage. If we get hit, we lose hate.

Well, you heard him. All you paladins, Ninja, warriors and the one sam tank can go home. Thieves are better tanks, and any tanking adjustments shouldn't negatively affect them. I mean, if we lose thief tanks, FFXI will die!

[Khamsin]

Once any job can sub /PLD and, without sacrificing attack power, take 0 damage then they can make /NIN Utsusemi useless.

With some of the changes I'm hearing, it'd relegate Utsusemi to merely some sort of "just in case" thing if the mob happens to turn and whack at you a time or two before the tank gets hate back, or for SATA assistance.

[Damane]

correct DEF/VIT calculations on dmg taken problem solved

[SeraphusRagnarok]

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6...rthreadeu3.png

[ronin sparthos]

I equate anyone that brings up changing from utsusemi to anything else like the world changing from oil to alternative fuel.... its just not gonna happen unless something drastic happens

...and even then people wont give it up without a fight.

Its the one broken thing ingame that everyone cant help but love.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

I'd like to remind the above poster of the food nerf of 2004.

[ronin sparthos]

Food Nerf? Peanuts compared to what would happen if Utsusemi (on subs.) was nerfed in any way.

The game would go back into the Dark Ages, people would cry Ranger Nerf all over again.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Part of the RNG nerf was the Utsu nerf back then. Remember RNG weren't just broken simply because they could do insane damage, it was also due in part that they subbed NIN and with Utsu suffered no penalty. Therefore it was the ultimate damage dealer coupled with the ultimate defense. When a job has high attacking power it usually balanced with poor HP,defense and evasion but utsu ni/ichi conveniently cover all that up. It used to be multi hit ws and AoE TP moves only took 1 shadow, during the same time, Third eye also Anticpated magic and aoe ws (you could third eye Spike Flail)

[Loziel]

A major Utsesemi nerf would be VERY bad business at such a late stage in the games life, especially with how disgruntled people are with SE right now.

[ronin sparthos]

Yes now imagine a 'adjustment' where the chance of your attacking being blinked depended on ninjutsu skill, effectively turning 100% damage mitigation into something only a NIN main could do 100% of the time.

You'd be looking at something that'd make the Ranger 'tweak' look like a joke. I could see the fallout of that kinda switch, entire strategies reduced to dust overnight and the ensuing madness of people going emo.

The games long past any kinda major change like the death of Utsusemi, the best SE can do is bring DEF/VIT up to par (so that actually... like matter) or make monsters that ignore shadows more. (namely HNMs)

[Khamsin]

Yes now imagine a 'adjustment' where the chance of your attacking being blinked depended on ninjutsu skill, effectively turning 100% damage mitigation into something only a NIN main could do 100% of the time.

You'd be looking at something that'd make the Ranger 'tweak' look like a joke. I could see the fallout of that kinda switch, entire strategies reduced to dust overnight and the ensuing madness of people going emo.

The games long past any kinda major change like the death of Utsusemi, the best SE can do is bring DEF/VIT up to par (so that actually... like matter) or make monsters that ignore shadows more. (namely HNMs)

Guesh Urvan was the Utsusemi nerf.

[ronin sparthos]

lol. now lets imagine if every HNM was like that >.>

[The Q]

So basically we come back to, "Everything is fine the way it is."

Awesome.

[ronin sparthos]

I never said everything was 'ok' but the facts remain that a substantial Utsu nerf would be the biggest nerf ingame hands down. Unless SE overhauls things to work in a different way its just going to piss off half the community of players.

[Nyuneko]

I don't know, from what I read, if they fix the DEF/VIT formula, a lot of the melee DD that sub NIN solely for the purpose of Utsusemi(ie. MNK, seems everyone is forgetting about us, WHY?) will probably change to a more damaging sub, which, in a way, is already a /NIN nerf. I know for one, I would sub WAR to MNK if I wouldn't be a massive MP sponge when I pull hate, and I can probably sub WAR to THF if on the rare occasion that I am needed for damage.

[ronin sparthos]

Your forgetting solo, like the THF so happily mentioned above - situations where tanks like RDMs solo really hard things, BLU tank @ Nyzul Isle etc etc.

It'd take precision balancing to not completely eradicate these things while making defense more effective. Balancing im almost confident SE cant handle.

[The Q]

I never said everything was 'ok' but the facts remain that a substantial Utsu nerf would be the biggest nerf ingame hands down. Unless SE overhauls things to work in a different way its just going to piss off half the community of players.

Well, like I've said, as it stands right now if an Utsu nerf happened with no other changes that would be bad. Right now Utsu isn't the problem, it's the stop-gap solution to a bigger problem: VIT/Def.

Should VIT/Def be fixed to any reasonable amount it would, in turn, make Utsu even more overpowering. Now, in this scenario, not only are you taking a properly reduced damage per hit, you're also blinking away hits. Pretty overpowered, and in this case downgrading Utsusemi on subbed NIN to an improved but not 100% blink would be a proper balance.

Then again you have the hard-headed die-hards like Slott who believe that taking hits in any situation is the end of the world. Ugh, seriously that whole post of his just reinforces what I've been saying all along. God forbid a healing-capable mage with a nigh-limitless MP pool have to actually cure someone from time to time.

Taking no damage will always be better than taking some, but being able to actually defend yourself and reduce damage taken is a LOT better than getting torn apart like in Rambo from 2 hits. Right now we "live" in an "Utsusemi or die" world. It seriously stifles diversity and skews game balance dramatically.

It could be changed, it should be changed, but knowing SE and seeing just how mindlessly attached some players are to "invincible mode" I know that the world will refuse to change.

[ronin sparthos]

Change is something id enjoy seeing but the problem atm is if SE attempted to 'fix' DEF/VIT and as a part of that fix nerfed utsusemi - we'd be in a position where if that DEF/VIT change wasnt 'good enough' that we'd have an issue where the game took 2 steps back instead of 2 steps forward.

SE would need to hit the nail on the head for it not be a major step backwards.

[Xno Kappa]

Fix Defenese/VIT, fix Guarding Skill, fix Evasion Skill, fix all these damn defensive Combat Skills so they're actually worth a piss so the majority of players aren't so god-damn dependent on blinks. Utsusemi should have never evolved into the must-have-crutch it is today.