Opinions for Job Adjustments

[BRP]

EDIT: WRONG THREAD LAWL

[Max™]

There is no advantage to subbing DRG over SAM in a merit party. You do more damage as /SAM than /DRG, and you mitigate more damage as /SAM than /DRG.

Maxaru is delusional. Please don't feed him, you don't want to know how stupid and narrow minded he becomes.

Redshit just loves me, pay no attention too it.

The only advantage /Drg has over /Sam is variety, it's more fun to jump on things than meditate, but yes, /Sam wins out over all for gaxin it up.

Way to take an old topic from another convo on another board and fail at disproving a point I didn't even make.

Rerail: SE now isn't the SE that it was, I don't believe they feel the need to nerf everything into oblivion any longer. Adjusting the way mob damage works, or fixing Def/Vit to counter the broken mob damage would both solve things without nerfing the crap out of the way we do things now. The sky most likely is not falling.

[BRP]

Grips should be equippable on all weapons, not limited to 2-hand.

[The Q]

So if someone could clear this up a bit for me I'd apreciate it. The defense page on wiki doesn't tell a whole lot of info.

So, using a scale of 0-100 for the amount of damage a mob can hit you for in a hit. You stack enough VIT so that the scale is now at 0-75. DEF works on adjusting the point of the curve you will be hit at. Say this theoretical character has enough Defense so that the low-end hits are 45, high end are 75; 0 being there for misses, etc.

So I'm guessing the above scenario is more of a lower end one. Then at the higher end you have scales of something like 0-500, where you can push it down to say 0-300 with a 200-300 realistic damage range.

So, if I'm getting all this right, at such high damage ranges you're still going to get pummeled for a lot no matter how much def you stack. Is this a realistic view or am I skewing it a bit?

[Lucavi]

So, if I'm getting all this right, at such high damage ranges you're still going to get pummeled for a lot no matter how much def you stack. Is this a realistic view or am I skewing it a bit?

More or less. You can either blink it away for 0 damage, or take it for anywhere from 300-650. Tell me which one the player base is going to (logically) gravitate towards?

[The Q]

And how much HP can be achieved? I'm guessing like low 2k's if you go all out?

In that case you'd be losing like 10-25% or more of your HP per hit... No wonder people cry MP sponge.

I just can't see how people see that as just fine.

[The Q]

Grips should be equippable on all weapons, not limited to 2-hand.

That or give some kind of advantage, perhaps based on sub, to having a free hand.

[Nirokun!]

Grips should be equippable on all weapons, not limited to 2-hand.

That or give some kind of advantage, perhaps based on sub, to having a free hand.

its called a shield

[ronin sparthos]

Grips were made to give 2h weapons a bonus that they usually only dual-wielders get.... why would 1handers get the bonus obviously targeted towards the 'then' struggling 2h weapons?

1h weapons get shields/dual-wield, 2h get grips.

[BRP]

Ah yes, I forgot about the powerhouse 2 weapons, 2 grips combo.

Using a grip forces you to sacrifice a shield slot or another weapon. This is not a simple choice. There are no powerhouse 1-hand weapon user, they rely on dual wield. Add offensive stat shields(outside like 2 or 3 that exist now) would be another option. A 1-hand user struggles more than any 2-hand user.

[ronin sparthos]

SE attempted to compensate the lack of status boosts for 2handers via the grips, the 1 handed jobs are all addicted to dual-wield which crushed 2handers pre-patch. Now the community has shifted to using 2h weapons and 1h weapons are a matter of 'preference' doesnt mean all of a sudden '1h needs a boost', the grips offset any bonuses a dual-wielder might get.

Frankly the Grips arent that amazing until post-60, most before that are just seasoning for a mage or a stat or two on the offhand slot.

[BRP]

the 1 handed jobs are all addicted to dual-wield

More like have to use dual-wield. Grips and dual-wielding can't mix obviously and dual-wielding is obviously superior. This boosts(slightly even) subs outside /NIN, which sounds like SE wants to do.

[The Q]

the 1 handed jobs are all addicted to dual-wield

More like have to use dual-wield. Grips and dual-wielding can't mix obviously and dual-wielding is obviously superior. This boosts(slightly even) subs outside /NIN, which sounds like SE wants to do.

Lost cause. Already been "durr, shield"'d. Because every job that uses 1-handed weapons can, and has a good enough skill and selection to make it worthwhile.

[XxSlusherxx]

mabye just adding some killer shields to HNMs like "enhances triple attack" or Haste+5% dex+3 agi+3 would be cool, as it stands Viking/tatami as endgame equipment is kinda a joke.

[Lucavi]

Lost cause. Already been "durr, shield"'d. Because every job that uses 1-handed weapons can, and has a good enough skill and selection to make it worthwhile.

Agreed, and thf/war is a primary example of this. The problem with thf/war? "Omg now you've pulled hate and will proceed to get 85% of your hp knocked out in 2-3 hits! You should have fucking subbed /nin! What the fuck were you thinking?!"

A single dagger is very good, but you're either "feeding the mob too much tp", or running the risk of taking any damage and thus, having the rest of the party screaming at you for getting hit. As it stands, thf evasion does absolutely nothing -- I still like how WoW gives rouges that flat 20% evasion rate, even when you first start the game. It makes rouges feel more... sneaky and tricky, which, ironically, are two moves that thfs in FFXI are supposed to have and feel like.

So yes, if SE introduces a one-handed grip that either acts like a permanent sentinel or a permanent blink spell, you'd probably see people using 1-handed more often, but since you cannot, people simply will not.

[Oulanbator]

So yes, if SE introduces a one-handed grip that either acts like a permanent sentinel or a permanent blink spell, you'd probably see people using 1-handed more often, but since you cannot, people simply will not.

So ninjas and paladins would drop the second katana or shield to have sentinel or blink up full time ?

[Kazen]

So yes, if SE introduces a one-handed grip that either acts like a permanent sentinel or a permanent blink spell, you'd probably see people using 1-handed more often, but since you cannot, people simply will not.

So ninjas and paladins would drop the second katana or shield to have sentinel or blink up full time ?

Screw that, just let plds equip 2 shields so they can go /nin with 2 shields.

[Olo401]

Something that I'm surprised has not come up yet in this extensive discussion...

Barspells should provide elemental resistance from ALL sources of a given element, not just damage which is magic-based. I can understand that barspells shouldn't provide additional MDB, but the idea of Barfira providing absolutely no resistance against Mijin Gakure is ludicrous.

BTW, the idea early on about Azure Lore allowing access to a BLU's entire catalog of learned spells is terrific.

[ronin sparthos]

So yes, if SE introduces a one-handed grip that either acts like a permanent sentinel or a permanent blink spell, you'd probably see people using 1-handed more often, but since you cannot, people simply will not.

So ninjas and paladins would drop the second katana or shield to have sentinel or blink up full time ?

Arguably hes talking about jobs like THF/WAR or THF/DRK that could use some form of damage mitigation when subbing damage dealing jobs over the 'life-conservation' /NIN. Now to surpass /nin you'd have to have a grip that either gave you blink, something near the potency of blink or insane defense. NIN and PLD are tanks, i think the arguement was pointed towards jobs that use mainly a 1 handed weapon like THF above or DNC, BLU etc and are are 'damage-dealers' but are forced to sub /nin or face getting ripped apart if the tank sucks or hate goes your way due to the nature of DEF in this game.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

In Final Fantasy 5 and Final Fantasy Tactics you could equip 2 shields :D