Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Kenji]

Resisting the urge to tell you to go back to zam.
I want to know why you believe such a petition is necessary?
They have been making changes and additions, there are more changes and additions coming.
Why is it important to make another 'zomg everything is broken' complaint?

Good question. It's not that everything is broken. Like the saying goes, everyone complains about the weather, but no one does anything about it. A lot of people complain that it takes them 2 years to make a simple change, or that they misunderstand what we are saying and implement things not quite right. If no one wants to actually do anything about it, and instead just complain, then yes, zam works for them.

What would you suggest? Do nothing and hope SE gets it right on their own? Or rely on everyone just haphazardly subbmitting suggestions and hope they don't pick another Pankration out of the box?

And to be quite honest. I think most of your ideas are unnecessary, asking to be overpowered, childish, or simply dead horses.

Perhaps I took the wrong approach, and instead started with just a few minor adjustments to jobs. I figured by including a lot, I could get more people interested, because it would concern their job. I'm in the process of trimming the list now.

With childish I mean making souleater only be usable with scythe and gsword ... if its such a big deal, just go do the BCNM for the club ... a few hundred times ... no offense, but it is a childish notion that you want to 'level the playing field for drks'.

Kraken-club DRK zerging isn't a problem? If the community really wants to keep it, that's fine. I was under the impression that such tactics are generally looked down upon. And I'd consider it a first step towards making changes to HNMs, to allow them to be challenging again. Changes there are pointless, if you can just KCDRK zerg it down again. And I'd hate to see a single BCNM being run hundreds of times as a requirement for a class to partake in end-game. What do DRK's bring otherwise?

I don't believe brds will appreciate you for thinking they need to carry more instruments around. They already have enough inventory issues without getting extra instruments thrown at them.

I'd see it more as a change in inventory, rather than adding to it. Imagine changing some of your flutes for lutes or trumpets or whatever other instrument you can imagine. These instruments would have the same bonuses as the flute they were replacing. They'd just play a different tune, and allow an extra song to be placed on their targets. Some of the BRD complaints I've read about here, have been with the 2 song limit. The idea of getting new bard tunes was just a pet peeve of mine. Then again, I suppose I can go back to modding the files to hear different tunes.

We all know pup sucks, it's the new drg. Does SE (really) need to be told?

I get the feeling SE is aware of their shortcomings, which is why not much is suggested for it. Most PUPs seem to want a slightly higher h2h skill, however.

There I tried being constructive.

Worked well, thanks! Working on incorporating suggestions thus far.

The problem with this is that meripo mobs don't live long enough to build TP, SC/MB on. And if they did, it wouldn't be worth killing them becasue, well, it just is longer than other options...

The MP returned on MB idea seemed to be something several BLMs liked in the other thread. I agree that the current meripo situation doesn't help it. But it's also to help BLM's leveling up. SE has stated they want to adjust things to bring back the SC and MB, so this suggestion is based on that. I'm also hoping they include some mobs in the new WotG areas that are worth SC'ing on. But this is a petition limited specifically to job adjustments. I could include all sorts of things, but the size would balloon.

[Not Kuno]

I was under the impression that such tactics are generally looked down upon.

wtf? Are you retarded?

[spooky]

The problem with this is that meripo mobs don't live long enough to build TP, SC/MB on. And if they did, it wouldn't be worth killing them becasue, well, it just is longer than other options...

The MP returned on MB idea seemed to be something several BLMs liked in the other thread. I agree that the current meripo situation doesn't help it. But it's also to help BLM's leveling up. SE has stated they want to adjust things to bring back the SC and MB, so this suggestion is based on that. I'm also hoping they include some mobs in the new WotG areas that are worth SC'ing on. But this is a petition limited specifically to job adjustments. I could include all sorts of things, but the size would balloon.

I sometimes forget that people have to actually level up pto 75. >.> I guess it would help with that, but it doesn't seem like BLMs actually have a problem getting an invite then anyway. These days it seems like every low level PT sucks (comparative to melee burn and pre-ToAU areas anyway), and with less people leveling you take what you can get.
So far RDM have ways of getting MP, so does WHM and BRD, soon to be SNM too from the looks of it. That does just leave BLM and I guess SCH, but that's a whole other thread anyway.

EDIT: @Kuno: lol, maybe their LS still kites Kirin?

[Kenji]

I was under the impression that such tactics are generally looked down upon.

wtf? Are you retarded?

Just don't participate in end-game activities really. Regardless, I've dropped that part from the list.

[Octavious]

Everyone knows these things don't work unless they're posted on petitiononline.com

This made me fall out of my chair...cheers to you sir.

Slightly back on topic, I would wait till SE implements the promised adjustments from Fanfest before asking for more, heh seems greedy IMO.

edit: just noticed the SCH comment, if the game wasn't broken yet lets allow a job to stack 3-4 massive DoT's on a mob and have them proc like bio, wonderful...lol

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Penetration is a permanent +20% attack boost! Broken!

[Shojin]

BLU: SE did a great job with BLU, as it is highly balanced and well-liked by the community. The only adjustments suggested, would be to smooth it's use, and encourage use of more of their lesser used abilities. 1000 needles is currently not used much due to high resist rate and MP cost. As it's a staple Blue mage spell, we'd like to see it used more. An adjustment so that it hits more often and slightly reduce MP cost would allow it to find use again; it's balanced due to a long cast and recast time. Also, the following spells could benefit greatly from an extended duration: Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge. This would encourage their use more often. A macro command to set Blue Spells would be nice as well. As for new spells, most BLU's would like the following: Mighty Guard(protect and shell for party), Battery Charge(self MP restore), and White Wind.

One thing I would actually like to see fixed with Blue Mages, is multi-hit physical spells doing 10TP per hit, that's some bull shit. As powerful as Disseverment is, giving 50TP to a mob, especially certain high-level ones with nasty TP moves, is a little unnecessary. Either cut it down to something like 5TP per landed hit, or make it work the same way as multi-hit weapon skills.

[Jeryhn]

I don't agree with a lot of your changes either. Some just plain seem out-of-place, like Dark Knight having Enspells with no native Enhancing skill, and some are just plain dumb, like adding more Bloodpact categories when Rage and Ward are more than enough and a new line of Enspells that are basically carbon copies of the Scholar's Storm series. Regaining MP on MBs doesn't solve the issues a BLM has that makes it less attractive to parties than other jobs.

Some things that some jobs would actually benefit from:

WAR:
- What a Warrior does is bap things with weapons. That's their job. As such, they should be a master of weapons and highly proficient in most, if not all, weapons. Increase their combat skill rating in Daggers, Swords, Clubs, Staffs, and Polearms to at least B+ to match their Great Sword and Scythe ratings. Raise Axe to A+ to match Great Axe. Leave H2H, Archery, Marksmanship, Throwing and Shield as-is.

WHM:
- A practical boost to Barstatus spells through the use of Barspell merits to make them actually resist incoming status effects. This not only makes the spells more useful, but addresses a good amount of the issue of the 10 minute cooldown on Divine Veil.

BLM:
- BLM is a fine job by itself. In reality, a lot of BLMs issue lie in the mobs that we fight. The problem is there are not mobs in the game that are specifically weak to magic. In fact, the vast majority of EXP-able mobs resist spellcasting, or have job traits that make casting on them a hinderance (see Colibri's Magic Counter trait). This issue could be addressed by revamping a number of mob classes to resist physical damage, but be specifically weak to magical. Crabs, Slimes, Flans, Ghosts, Elementals and some other mobs would be absolutely perfect to fulfill this role. For example, elementals could easily be reworked to take more damage from an elemental spell that beats their own, instead of simply not resisting the damage.
- Skillchain damage should experience less resists to make them more worthwhile. Magic Bursts should also be improved, but not just numerical damage on nukes - Enfeebling spells should also see a potency and/or duration increase on Magic Bursts.

THF:
- Finally address Perfect Dodge. Or pull a DRG and give them and entirely new Two Hour ability that actually makes a difference in a party and/or event (hell, even a forced Treasure Hunter as a Two Hour would make a THF absolutely needed at, like, everything), and make Perfect Dodge a normal JA to allow more use for pulling. Do something with it.
- Perfect Dodge should be able to allow the Thief to dodge any damage considered to be physical (I'm looking at you ranged attacks).
- Allow THF to use Marksmanship weaponskills, particularly things like Split Shot or Sniper Shot which would solidify their role as an enfeebler through the use of ranged attacks.

PLD:
- SE has done a great job with PLD, but there is still one glaring error. Invincible should reduce damage from all attacks - physical, ranged and magical. It should also prevent all incoming status effects and spells. For example, an invincible Paladin should not be able to be slowed, paralyzed, stunned, silenced or even dispelled while their Two Hour is active.

DRK:
- DRK is also a pretty fine job, but Blood Weapon needs some work as well. One of two things need to happen: It should deal additional damage with its Drain effect, or it shouldn't be considered an Additional Effect. While the first option might be overpowering, particularly with Kraken Club owners, the second would be easier to implement and probably makes more sense. Instead of seeing "Additional Effect: The Goblin was drained for 50 HP." make a message that shows "The DRK recovers 50 HP." Then allow Blood Weapon's effects to stack with Additional Effects applied to their weapon, and that's all you need.

RNG:
- Eagle Eye Shot's damage should be improved. It should not miss unless the target is under a special effect that makes them immune to physical or ranged damage.

NIN:
- Instead of giving NIN a new Ninjutsu spell that adds a Sneak effect, simply change Tonko to add both Sneak and Invisible.
- Improve the availability of Shurikens to allow NIN more ranged damage-dealing options.

SAM:
- The only thing that Samurais could really use is access to Archery weaponskills (similar to my earlier proposal for THF to have Marksmanship weaponskills). The only reason: It gives SAM more skillchain options.

SMN:
- SMN's summoning skill should be A+.
- Retreat should transfer the summoner's enmity to their summoned avatar.
- The effect range of Ward Bloodpacts should be dramatically increased.
- Introduce a number of new Ward Bloodpacts that the SMN has access to while under the effect of Astral Flow.

BLU:
- Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.

COR:
- Stored Quick Draws look to be an excellent addition to COR. Allow them to store up to 6 shots (Hexagun yo).

SCH:
- Biggest issue with SCH is lack of spell availability. They should get the six elemental defense spells (Spikes, Blink, Stoneskin, Aquaveil). They should get some basic debuffs (Slow, Paralyze, Blind, Stun).

[Shojin]

BLU:
- Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.

That is an awesome idea. for you.

[Tajin]

Since Bankitty gave his blessing to shit on your parade:

WHM: With the rise of the RDM healer for merit parties, the white mage is losing it's shine as the premier healing class.

RDM: Enthunder active would grant a boost to thunder spells the RDM would cast.

BLM: If SC's are going to be made attractive again, then BLMs would benefit greatly from a passive ability to return 25-50% MP on Magic Bursts.

WHM: I can get parties / spot in alliance just fine.

RDM: Yay, because we know RDM nukes do so much damage and SE macros are flexible enough to allow for multiple gear swaps

BLM: Fuck regular xp parties, make more camps with mobs similar to puddings. The MP return idea seems nice; waiting for melees with TP however is not. Much less having to listen to <call> and reading retarded macros.

[Rena]

So far RDM have ways of getting MP, so does WHM and BRD, soon to be SNM too from the looks of it. That does just leave BLM and I guess SCH, but that's a whole other thread anyway.

What? BLM gets aspir, conserve MP, and clear mind V, WHM gets... clear mind IV.

[spooky]

So far RDM have ways of getting MP, so does WHM and BRD, soon to be SNM too from the looks of it. That does just leave BLM and I guess SCH, but that's a whole other thread anyway.

What? BLM gets aspir, conserve MP, and clear mind V, WHM gets... clear mind IV.

I take it you've not herd of devotion then?
EDIT: Aspir, only works if what you fight has MP or doesn't totaly resist it anyway. Conserve MP, lol. clear mind V lmfao.

[Tajin]

WHM:
- A practical boost to Barstatus spells through the use of Barspell merits to make them actually resist incoming status effects.

lol indeed, The best use for those spells to avoid the useful buffs from being dispeled

[Rena]

So far RDM have ways of getting MP, so does WHM and BRD, soon to be SNM too from the looks of it. That does just leave BLM and I guess SCH, but that's a whole other thread anyway.

What? BLM gets aspir, conserve MP, and clear mind V, WHM gets... clear mind IV.

I take it you've not herd of devotion then?

I thought you meant ways of recovering MP for yourself only. :x

[BRP]

WHM:
- A practical boost to Barstatus spells through the use of Barspell merits to make them actually resist incoming status effects.

lol indeed, The best use for those spells to avoid the useful buffs from being dispeled

Why limit it at Barstatus spells? Resist traits(especially up to IV) should be even more noticeable(along with gear). A DRK with barparalyze should basically be laughing at attempts to paralyze him by anything within 10 levels of him.

[Dreampainter]

The OP seems to have a distorted view of most of the jobs he's commenting on. Drg stuck out like a sore thumb with the fact that most ToAU mobs are weak to piercing. The fact that you name the idea for the new drg job trait "Penetration" is somewhat disgusting. I go anon now half the time when i switch to drg because i keep getting merit invites. The notion that drg is behind on invites these days just seems like an outdated notion for me.

Also as a player of the pup job, I think H2H skill boost is a "whatever" adjustment. It wouldn't excite me at all. It would be like telling rangers,"Hey! we just boosted your axe skill, even though your main weapon is ranged attacks"

[Kenji]

One thing I would actually like to see fixed with Blue Mages, is multi-hit physical spells doing 10TP per hit, that's some bull shit. As powerful as Disseverment is, giving 50TP to a mob, especially certain high-level ones with nasty TP moves, is a little unnecessary. Either cut it down to something like 5TP per landed hit, or make it work the same way as multi-hit weapon skills.

Sounds reasonable and good. Adding it to the list.

I don't agree with a lot of your changes either. Some just plain seem out-of-place, like Dark Knight having Enspells with no native Enhancing skill, and some are just plain dumb, like adding more Bloodpact categories when Rage and Ward are more than enough and a new line of Enspells that are basically carbon copies of the Scholar's Storm series. Regaining MP on MBs doesn't solve the issues a BLM has that makes it less attractive to parties than other jobs.

Good point about DRK. I was looking for a way for them to get some MP back, since they aren't a target for refresh. I'll remove those for now. The idea behind the RDM enspells, is to allow them to get away from using the staves. SE wants to give RDM more reason to use their swords, which they'll only do while soloing unless we can get away from staves. If RDM's don't mind sticking with staves in parties, I'll delete this part, and then Enspell IIs can just be a toy for solo RDMs.

WAR idea is good. I'll add it to the list, although I'm trying to focus more on jobs which could use a boost. WHM Barstatus idea is good, although the chance to full resist an enfeeble is already there, via the Barelement line. However, Barstatus could use a boost.

- Finally address Perfect Dodge. Or pull a DRG and give them and entirely new Two Hour ability that actually makes a difference in a party and/or event (hell, even a forced Treasure Hunter as a Two Hour would make a THF absolutely needed at, like, everything),

"We all buffed? Ready to go again?" "Not yet, the THF's 2hr is down now." "Damn." I agree it needs something, but I admit I don't know what right now. Added your other thf suggestions.
Let's see... aggre about PLD; I've wanted that ever since I leveled Paladin as my first advanced job, way back when. Eagle Eye Shot suggestion is good. Added NIN, DRK, BLU suggestions, but hesitant to add SAM, as they are already pretty good right now. Perhaps later on, when other classes have received their needed adjustments. I believe your COR suggestions are already coming.

- SMN's summoning skill should be A+.

The only issue here, is that SMN skill doesn't do much for the summoner besides spell interruption *unless* it's over the cap. So raising the cap does nothing. There would need to be a change to SMN skill itself, for what it affects, because a cap raise would be meaningful. If no other SMNs want more BP commands, I'll remove them. Adding the Ward range issue, too.

- Biggest issue with SCH is lack of spell availability. They should get the six elemental defense spells (Spikes, Blink, Stoneskin, Aquaveil). They should get some basic debuffs (Slow, Paralyze, Blind, Stun).

We can focus on a SCH's spells first, from reading the SCH thread, most want the strategems and recharge timer adjusted first. Removed the Helix suggestion for now. We'll focus on buffing SCH via strategems and spells right now.

RDM: Yay, because we know RDM nukes do so much damage and SE macros are flexible enough to allow for multiple gear swaps

Added your BLM suggestion. As I mentioned above, the idea for Enspell IIs was to mimic staves, since SE wanted RDMs to melee. But I think I'll delete that part, since it appears RDMs don't want to melee in parties.

Good stuff, keep the suggestions rolling. Try to remember that a suggestion should address a perceived issue, and make sure the issue is clearly defined. Devs like hearing the "Why" more than "This is broke; fix it!" Will help them to see your point of view more easily. Also dropped the DRG changes for now. Will wait to see what wyvern commands SE is adding first.

[Jeryhn]

The idea behind the RDM enspells, is to allow them to get away from using the staves. SE wants to give RDM more reason to use their swords, which they'll only do while soloing unless we can get away from staves. If RDM's don't mind sticking with staves in parties, I'll delete this part, and then Enspell IIs can just be a toy for solo RDMs.

It won't get RDMs away from staves, rather the smart RDMs will be stacking the effects of the spells with the staves to get an even higher boost on their magic. So really, this fixes nothing.

The only issue here, is that SMN skill doesn't do much for the summoner besides spell interruption *unless* it's over the cap. So raising the cap does nothing.

Baby steps principle. If you know a SMN, you also know they likely solo a good amount. Preventing spell interruption really helps for certain situations.

[techun]

Author is obviously a noob. Since he missed out mentioning on some key jobs

[Kenji]

It won't get RDMs away from staves, rather the smart RDMs will be stacking the effects of the spells with the staves to get an even higher boost on their magic. So really, this fixes nothing.

Good point. Could always code it so they don't stack. One or the other. Or Enspells only working with 1 handed weapons.

Baby steps principle. If you know a SMN, you also know they likely solo a good amount. Preventing spell interruption really helps for certain situations.

Very familiar with SMN soloing. If they're doing it right, they shouldn't get hit, as summoning while something is close enough to you, gets you hate you don't want. You should be summoning far away from the mob. And in the case that it's unavoidable, that's what Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaveil are for.

Although, granted, I do agree with you. I'd like to see SMN skill mean more. But I feel it's a back burner issue for now. I am confused as to why they gave it an A- in the first place, instead of an A+.

The OP seems to have a distorted view of most of the jobs he's commenting on. Drg stuck out like a sore thumb with the fact that most ToAU mobs are weak to piercing. The fact that you name the idea for the new drg job trait "Penetration" is somewhat disgusting. I go anon now half the time when i switch to drg because i keep getting merit invites. The notion that drg is behind on invites these days just seems like an outdated notion for me.

At 75, yes, you're fine. Plus you have Angon. Have to consider people leveling up as well, and the amount of crabs and beetles parties will fight. There is nothing disgusting about the name, other than 3rd grade toilet humor. Which can be fun at times. Still, if you have a better name, I'm open to hearing it. The idea was for a spear to penetrate armor a bit. I suppose we could just call it an "Ignore Defense" trait.

I've still dropped DRG from the list for the moment, until I see what SE is planning for the wyvern commands.

And the jobs that are missing are deliberate. Generally, they are seen as good enough at the moment, like SAM. The idea is to get other jobs on par, as opposed to nerfing the good jobs down to everyone else's level.