Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Spider-Dan]

People stopped going to KRT the day TAU came out, and it had nothing to do with the difficulty of bones.

This sounds suprisingly like this:

[quote:1n2jhmdl]When something better comes along, how often do people use the old things?

Which was what I posted. Thanks for agreeing with me wholeheartedly. Moving on..[/quote:1n2jhmdl]
Do you even read the post at all before you start mashing reply? You somehow managed to skip over the important part.

The lack of parties in KRT has nothing to do with shadows, or offense, or mob level, or new vs. old, or ANYTHING BUT SANCTION EXP BONUS. Period.

Let me state it again, since you clearly failed to read it the first time: if Signet received Sanction's exp bonus, KRT would be full of monks the same day. Likewise, if keeping the AC somehow became impossibly hard, KRT would immediately return to top-tier camp status.

KRT's abandonment has NOTHING to do with any damage taken/given dynamic, and would be just as valid/popular a camp today as it was 2 years ago if not for Sanction's exp bonus.

Socially acceptable = accessible. Everyone says it all the time: you can do what you want to do, but not in MY party, and they raise a good point. /Whm is a great sub in that situation for drg, but not the best, and its certainly not socially acceptable. My only "excuse" in that situation is that I cannot sub /whm because I CANNOT get a party there with that sub.

Full stop.

You're arguing for social acceptance over actual performance? Please. If your demands can only be met by /NIN becoming a socially outcast SJ, then let's just stop now; DRG is the best DD on colibri as is and people still consider DRG a stepchild job.

If the game isn't "fixed" until DRG/WHM gets the same invites as WAR/NIN, have fun in FFXI-2, because this game will never be fixed.

Then why do we even care about them? Honestly, with all the defense spamming they do, no one would ever treat that camp like a speed-burning camp, unless SE suddenly started taking moves from them. They're irrelevant to the discussion.

Again, it boggles the mind that you find defense-spamming mobs irrelevant to a discussion about improving and diversifying offensive subjobs.

Who said you hated them? I said you were horribly biased towards rng, much like I am towards drg.

And the basis for this belief is... that the first subjob improvement example I cited (not the only example, just the first one) was /RNG. Outstanding work, detective. You have uncovered my all-encompassing lust for /RNG.

You and I have very different views of hatred. I don't view hatred as reducing an outright obsession with /nin. Maybe eliminating the job entirely would be hatred, but I have an annoyance with it, not a hatred of it.

Your "adjustments" would have the effect of completely obsoleting /NIN. When I correctly called you out on this point, your response was, and I quote, "And if it does, is that a crime?"

You don't want to reduce it, you want to end it.

[quote:1n2jhmdl]I propose improving and expanding upon additional offensive SJs and/or MP mitigation SJs like /DNC.

So your answer to the MP sponge complaint is to improve /dnc and have everyone sub that?[/quote:1n2jhmdl]
Wait, I'm confused... do I want everyone to always use /RNG because of my incredible bias towards my own main job, or do I want everyone to always use /DNC as the lockstep replacement for utsusemi instead?

Please hurry up and decide which SJ you want to accuse me of being blindly obsessed with whoring. It's getting kind of hard to keep track of which subjob is "the only one I like." Thanks.

[quote:1n2jhmdl]You claim that no offensive increase would be sufficient, since players are dead-set against taking any damage at all.

Outside of Merits and easy fights/quests, yes. Absolutely.[/quote:1n2jhmdl]

Outside of Merits and easy fights

Outside of Merits

Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the primary point you've been bitching about for the last four pages that players will not merit without /NIN? So, if you are now saying that players don't want to take damage EXCEPT FOR merits and easy fights, what, exactly, are you complaining about???

You cited experience parties, which does absolutely nothing for the flawed end-game damage, as well as end-game events that don't involve fighting the 3 kings. Give some concrete examples of end-game fights where people are content to take damage over shadows, and hell, give examples where people can "afford" to take that kind of damage, what with the mobs hitting for 350+ on anything that isn't an aegis pld.

The only people that use shihei on HNMs are F'ING TANKS. We have already discussed this point in this thread!

[FinalJustice]

http://www.vertex.umea.com/nr3-97/bild/Cat.Fight.gif




btw, Sanction bonus isnt the only reason old areas like KRT were abandoned. Its the fact that just about every merit area before were in dungeons with everything having 15min timer repop, or in Lufease meadows case, big things with annoying AoE attack TP moves, and lots of HP. IMO sanction exp isnt the only thing that would ressurect those camps.

[Baha]

I don't know but, /NIN isn't really as prevalent as it used to be. Merit, HNM, Dynamis or whatever, onehanders go /NIN, and twohanders are free to go /SAM. A subjob being improved like /SAM was would be nice, but I don't think there's a serious pressing need for nerfing utsu. Merits are already so easy, making def migitate better would just turn everything into super-easy mode. A change in some subjob akin to seigan, where you sacrifice some offensive power, and some sense of timing is necesarry would be far better.

[Kenji]

I don't know but, /NIN isn't really as prevalent as it used to be. Merit, HNM, Dynamis or whatever, onehanders go /NIN, and twohanders are free to go /SAM. A subjob being improved like /SAM was would be nice, but I don't think there's a serious pressing need for nerfing utsu. Merits are already so easy, making def migitate better would just turn everything into super-easy mode. A change in some subjob akin to seigan, where you sacrifice some offensive power, and some sense of timing is necesarry would be far better.

That's kinda been brought up, but you summed it well. However, /NIN does need a slight nerf, in order to ween people off it. Changing it into only a *chance* to absorb an attack like the Blink spell, seems about right. This should also come in the form of SJ enhancements for other subs, so that they are attractive enough to want to sub.

/PUP - I've heard of people using the healing puppet for a sub, and having it cast healing spells. With the ability to refresh it's MP by re-activating it, it could theoretically be used to heal up any damage taken. The downside, is the lack of offensive power, but I don't see a way around this. However, if 1 person subs PUP, and the puppet can assist cure on the party with virtually unlimited MP, it might be worth a slot.

/DRK - Attack bonuses and Soul Eater, which aren't seen as useful enough. To make it a viable sub, it needs something defensive. Either a passive enmity down, or a JA that reduces enmity by quite a bit. You won't need shadows if you're reducing your enmity enough that you don't take hate. Or perhaps a parry increasing JA?

/DRG - In lower levels, with the latent haste gear, it's not too bad. In higher levels, it's not used much. Add another jump or two, at least one that can be used as a SJ, that helps build TP; Double-jump(2 hits, half enmity) and Triple-Jump(3 hits, 1/3rd enmity of normal damage.) Perhaps let the wyvern be called when /DRG is subbed(but would be summoned at the SJ level and thus weaker). You can summon avatars and puppets, and charm mobs; why is this the only pet class that the pet can't be used while subbed?

/RNG - Add a hate loss component to camouflage? Not total like Hide, just by a decent bit. Still, not too many classes use ranged attacks, so probably not needed. Only ones who might, would be COR and SAM. Perhaps WAR, if the sub is improved enough. Or perhaps just the addition of high level worm-type mobs that you can xp on, at higher levels, and thus people would sub /RNG for weaponskills and stronger ranged attacks.

At this stage of the game, I think we need more aggro-reducing abilities scattered throughout the various dps classes. Tank aggro generation is the only thing we have going, mostly, which is why people sub NIN. It allows you to use your abilities to the fullest without dying. Give the other classes more access to aggro-reduction abilities, so hate control becomes more than just "hold back so I don't pull aggro" or sub /NIN(which would still be a viable choice).

[Lucavi]

Last reply, since this is all winding down anyway:

I'm pretty sure that this:

The lack of parties in KRT has nothing to do with shadows, or offense, or mob level, or new vs. old, or ANYTHING BUT SANCTION EXP BONUS. Period.

..Combined with this:

Its the fact that just about every merit area before were in dungeons with everything having 15min timer repop, or in Lufease meadows case, big things with annoying AoE attack TP moves, and lots of HP.

...Equals old being phased out by new. You're searching for a dozen reasons, when the reasons really don't matter. That content was replaced by something better, so the playerbase uses the better "something". Period. End of story. Stop trying to find ways to go back to the old. They took damage there because it was the most efficient, when you needed to make long, LONG runs to keep chains going against extremely weak-hitting mobs while using a weapon that those mobs were extremely weak to. Only mnks could hope to amass that amount of xp in that amount of time, but even that is inefficient now. If SE wanted people back there, they'd do what they should do if they want people back in besieged, pokemon, garrison, many BCNMs, and other dead, stale events: Update. That. Shit.

You're arguing for social acceptance over actual performance? Please. If your demands can only be met by /NIN becoming a socially outcast SJ, then let's just stop now; DRG is the best DD on colibri as is and people still consider DRG a stepchild job.

Ages ago I argued for "something" like it, but then I woke up, just like you should wake up and realize that your little /rng sub will never become a prime choice like you want it to be. This game has a habit of crushing people's ideas and grinding them into a fine little powder. To be more clear, though, I argued that the disparity between what jobs and subjobs offered was far too wide, when the playerbase only wanted damage, healing, and damage mitigation. Why give a subjob that provides oranges and grapes when the playerbase CLEARLY only wants apples, and has only wanted them since the game's release?

If the game isn't "fixed" until DRG/WHM gets the same invites as WAR/NIN, have fun in FFXI-2, because this game will never be fixed.

Hence why I'm somewhere where the game boils down to what you have and how good you can personally play, not what job you decided you want to be. FFXI is the game where any asshole or trash can pick up rdm or brd and at the very least, be initially accepted and desired. There's something wrong with that -- let it come down to skill and gear not just after the first impressions are made.

Again, it boggles the mind that you find defense-spamming mobs irrelevant to a discussion about improving and diversifying offensive subjobs.

Because SE isn't going to adjust how they spam their defense, and SE isn't going to seriously adjust how we improve our damage short of a few measly +weapon skill new merits and some armor that may give us an overall boost to 10-15 attack over the last set. I'm sorry you can't see that.

And the basis for this belief is... that the first subjob improvement example I cited (not the only example, just the first one) was /RNG. Outstanding work, detective. You have uncovered my all-encompassing lust for /RNG.

It comes from your comments here, the fact that 85% of your KI posts are on the rng forums, the fact that you were one of the staunch whiners when the "amazing" arrowburn "nerf" hit, among other things. Thanks for supporting my detective work, though.

Your "adjustments" would have the effect of completely obsoleting /NIN. When I correctly called you out on this point, your response was, and I quote, "And if it does, is that a crime?"

You don't want to reduce it, you want to end it.

I want it reduced, but I wouldn't MIND if it was ended, ONLY if it was replaced by something that is more fair to everyone, without being as restrictive. Is that so hard to understand? Keep drawing from a fraction of what I say and claiming it to be the major point -- it makes you so dreadfully effective.

Wait, I'm confused... do I want everyone to always use /RNG because of my incredible bias towards my own main job, or do I want everyone to always use /DNC as the lockstep replacement for utsusemi instead?

Now you're just being an idiot... again. Where was it written or stated that just because you have a strong bias towards rng, that you cannot like any other job, nor can you promote any adjustment to any other job? I have a strong bias towards drg, and yet I promoted changes to /sam, /war, and /drk. Apparently, in your little one-track world, that cannot exist, so I've created a paradox just by stati-

Also, you didn't even touch the fact that I was absolutely correct by your little /dnc adjustment whoring everyone over to /dnc. That's not fixing the game -- that's just creating a new fad for everyone to latch onto until the next guy complains that its too subjob restrictive. You want to find at least 5 subjobs for melee and I'd say at least 3 for mages to reasonably choose from with not only everyday, but end-game events.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the primary point you've been bitching about for the last four pages that players will not merit without /NIN? So, if you are now saying that players don't want to take damage EXCEPT FOR merits and easy fights, what, exactly, are you complaining about???

No, Chester, and try to follow along. The point isn't that players won't merit without /nin. Its the opposite, you fool! Its that the players won't fight anything any stronger than the average (read: fucking AVERAGE - not skoffins, and NOT imps) merit mob without shadows. Its that the players wont go on any quests or events that aren't weaksauce without /nin. Most importantly, its the fact that players do this not simply out of comfort with the subjob, but because everything else hits too fucking hard in relation to your level -- something 5 levels higher than you should NOT take you down in just 5 hits! That's the problem, now stop hurling insults and actually READ.

The point about /nin in merits was to show that the comofort level of having to use /nin everywhere else has completely engulfed merits to the point where its a main focus on utsusemi, and a situational focus on other subjob choices, instead of there being a situational focus to all subjobs. Yes, its the most efficient, which is why we've seen brds evolve from /whm to /nin, but again, you ask "why" it is so efficient? Because taking damage is the chief cardinal sin in this game, apparently to the dev teams that create the content. They are responsible for creating terrible rates of mp regeneration compared to other games, to the point where things become even more of a crawl then they already are if you start adding recovering heaps of damage into the equation. They are responsible for making everything your level or higher hit like a fucking truck. They are responsible for giving weak mobs abilities that annoy you (blood saber for bones, amnesia for imps), yet average, meritable mobs easy-ass moves that basically beg to be utsued through (pecking flurry for birds? Come on!).

The only people that use shihei on HNMs are F'ING TANKS. We have already discussed this point in this thread!

Step away from the 3kings, champ. List other end-game fights, and tell me who uses shadows. It ain't just the tanks, and it ain't just for thoseguys. I personally know of lots of blms using /nin for proto-omega, because it far more easy to keep up with stuns and to kill pods instead of getting clocked for 500+ a hit. If you can't reasonably burn it to the ground, like with Kirin, somebody outside of the tank is using either shadows or /thf to plant even more hate on the tank so everyone else doesn't have to get hit. At all.

[ronin sparthos]

SE is pretty much trying to fix the unbalanced issues of melees and mages at the moment so i think in terms of a /nin nerf the only solution is to change the defense/VIT formulas for the better, hope that its enough to get players from outta the /nin 'shell' and be able to choose subs more diversly. Regardless of what SE does/says, people will always pigeonhole jobs and will always preach 'this is better than that so shut up and sub it.' mentalities.

When i used to LFP on jobs, i never asked the PT leads what they want me to sub because its a pointless question in this day and age (unless its people you know well) and it always boils down to the stereotypical subs or /nin pigeonholing from people who unless they levelled the job before dont know shit. lol

It applies to many other things like missions (oh, we HAVE to do mammets this way or else, we HAVE to have NIN tanks for this mission, we CANT win without items yadayada) exp camps (shades? sounds hard. dude i cant tank these ziz im taking actual damage and having to do actual work, why cant we just camp on top of everyone else and compete for mobs and lag out instead?) and HNMs (dude melee outside SAM cant melee because your feeding it TP and its omg gonna spam the minute you touch it.)

[Amok]

Not to sidetrack too much from the /nin and damage formula discussion, but this is a general job adjustment thread. One of my oldest gripes about the game is that there are many jobs that have no real function in certain events/battles. It would be great if using non-optimal party setups didn't immediately make a NM fight or group event so much harder. A good deal of jobs don't fit into any of the Damage/Healing/Tanking/Support categories or try to do multiple things in a much less effective way. They slip through the cracks because they can't replace the jobs that were designed to do the things they TRY to. In much fewer words:

PUP, THF, BST, and to a lesser extent DRG and SCH need improvements in one or more of the Damage/Healing/Tanking/Support categories.

IMO other jobs seem to have their niche and perform well at their respective tasks.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

See it's a problem SE never intended on. Play any FF game with a choice of job classes.


FF3: Jobs were definitly not balanced and most jobs were upgrades of older ones. People used Monks and Warriors until they unlocked better jobs like M.Knight and Ninja because of better stats and gear availability.
FF5: Had about 25 jobs, were all of them balanced and useful? Not at all, in fact all jobs were inferior to the default job (Bare) once al the jobs were mastered, and some jobs were clearly upgrades of other ones. The earlier jobs like Warrior were obsolete compared to later jobs like Ninja and Dragoon because of higher stat bonuses and better weapons.
FFT: While you could use the standard jobs, NPCs had way better jobs.

I know that FFXI is supposed to be balanced because it's online;however, SE doesn't really have much experience with balancing issues because most of their prior job systems had novelty jobs or jobs that had a 'gimmick' but weren't a specialist. Red Mages in the old FF games were GODS 1-20 because they dealt roughly the same damage as the best melee classes and could nuke and heal, but worthless after about level 20 when the other melee got heavier armor and better swords. Jobs like Berserker and Trainer were cute but they weren't amazingly useful. Hell even Black Mages were worthless once you got a Summoner. So now that SE has made a game with 20 jobs it's hard to make them all balanced without being redundant.

I blame parsers. Before parsers came out shortly after NA release(JPs dont use them, 99% of them play on PS2) nobody cared about which job did more damage, people didn't min/max either, they played for fun. Nobody would kick you because you did slightly less damage than the other melee, it sounds kinda rediculous if you think about it. People just assumed, oh Rangers are supposed to be the highest damaging job, thats their thing, but oh Monk can do similar damage but can do some things Rangers can't, and Warrior does decent damage, not as much as the former but can also sub-tank,etc... In older FF games did all the DD jobs do equal damage? No, they always varied depending on their roles. Most people would have it ideal that WAR,MNK,DRG,DRK,SAM,RNG,THF,PUP all did the same damage but it's not feasible and it's redundant.

While parsers increase effeciency they also show what SE never wanted people to see, that some DD jobs DD better than others. See without parsers you never really know who's out damaging who, most cases in parsed parties the damage differential is like 5-10% and that's not calculable by the naked eye. Pre-RoZ before the 55 cap was when FFXI was most balanced. Rangers had high damage per shot, but didn't have Sidewinder/Slugshot yet, Warriors had Sturmwind but no rampage or /NIN, DRK was the highest DPS because they really did lack good defense and often pulled massive hate and died alot back then. PLD and WAR were the only tanks, WHM was the best and only healer, RDM was a support job not a main healer.

Everything was harmonious until they released NIN, added new weapon skills, increased the level cap, added 3 Kings with their outrageous drops,changed mechanics and added merit points. The entire FFXI community are min/maxers(wiki it) and that sucks the fun right out of the game...

[Not Kuno]

You are so completely retarded I can't begin to slowly take apart your post and destroy you because it's more fun then any person can take and I would just explode.

[Zilong]

Yeah, blame knowledge for all the misfortune in this world.

Maybe you just fucking suck.

[Amok]

Unrelated to why/when people started being more picky about jobs is the fact that as-is certain jobs can't carry their own weight through many HNM fights and exp pt's. THF and DRG got a nice gift with AU expansion in all the weak-to-piercing mobs, which makes them more able to catch up in exp pt's. However, I still feel like THF is 'just' there for TH in fights with actual drops and DRG is a second tier DD. PUP and BST seem like novelty classes that are fun to play but never had a defined role in exp and HNM. SCH, well, I'll refrain from saying anything about that cus I don't know enough about it. Other than those IMO, it really is a pretty well balanced game.

[Spider-Dan]

...Equals old being phased out by new. You're searching for a dozen reasons, when the reasons really don't matter. That content was replaced by something better, so the playerbase uses the better "something". Period. End of story. Stop trying to find ways to go back to the old. They took damage there because it was the most efficient, when you needed to make long, LONG runs to keep chains going against extremely weak-hitting mobs while using a weapon that those mobs were extremely weak to. Only mnks could hope to amass that amount of xp in that amount of time, but even that is inefficient now.

Your argument sounds great until one realizes that when the AC is gone, by some amazing coincidence, outdated camps become quite desirable again. At exactly the same time that the exp bonus from Sanction doesn't apply. Funny, that.

[quote:10eyjn14]And the basis for this belief is... that the first subjob improvement example I cited (not the only example, just the first one) was /RNG. Outstanding work, detective. You have uncovered my all-encompassing lust for /RNG.

It comes from your comments here, the fact that 85% of your KI posts are on the rng forums, the fact that you were one of the staunch whiners when the "amazing" arrowburn "nerf" hit, among other things. Thanks for supporting my detective work, though.[/quote:10eyjn14]
You might want to try checking some COR or THF forums, Columbo. Just because the only posts of mine you read are in RNG forums doesn't mean that's the only job I post about (or even the job I post most about).

Also, you didn't even touch the fact that I was absolutely correct by your little /dnc adjustment whoring everyone over to /dnc.

...except that if everyone is on /DNC, then no one is on /RNG. And since I'm supposed to be frothing at the mouth over /RNG, how can everyone whoring /DNC simultaneously be my goal?

The point isn't that players won't merit without /nin. Its the opposite, you fool! Its that the players won't fight anything any stronger than the average (read: fucking AVERAGE - not skoffins, and NOT imps) merit mob without shadows.

[...]

Step away from the 3kings, champ. List other end-game fights, and tell me who uses shadows.

So here we get to some actual meat. Where do people use /NIN?

kings: no
sky: no
Limbus: maybe for low-manned groups, depending on the quality of your DDs
Proto-Omega: no, moves ignore shadows anyway
Proto-Ultima: possibly for Armor Busters at <20% (we personally don't)
Dynamis: Windy, Sandy, Bubu
DL: no

Where, exactly, is the gaggle of endgame events where people are required to /NIN?

You'll notice a common thread in /NIN events: blinkable AoE moves. The reason why we sub NIN in those Dynamis zones is not because players can't take damage; it's because 1 mob AoE does ~4000 damage to the LS with no one subbing NIN and ~1000 damage to the LS with DDs subbing NIN. This "problem" is not fixable without the AoE moves themselves being nerfed to the point of inconsequentiality.

If you can't reasonably burn it to the ground, like with Kirin, somebody outside of the tank is using either shadows or /thf to plant even more hate on the tank so everyone else doesn't have to get hit. At all.

Oh no, people are using hate management subjobs to solidify enmity on the tank! We can't have the tanks actually, you know, tanking.

[Sprint]

Your argument sounds great until one realizes that when the AC is gone, by some amazing coincidence, outdated camps become quite desirable again. At exactly the same time that the exp bonus from Sanction doesn't apply. Funny, that...

Yeah its all about that small exp bonus, the fact that you can't use the runic portal and people are too lazy to walk to camps has nothing to do with it.

[Spider-Dan]

Your argument sounds great until one realizes that when the AC is gone, by some amazing coincidence, outdated camps become quite desirable again. At exactly the same time that the exp bonus from Sanction doesn't apply. Funny, that...

Yeah its all about that small exp bonus, the fact that you can't use the runic portal and people are too lazy to walk to camps has nothing to do with it.

And what, exactly, do you think people are doing without the AC? Taking the runic portal to KRT instead? When AC was gone, people would still walk their asses to sky, even before crag sky warp.

In any case, since the existence of a runic portal is not a battle-related issue, it's irrelevant. When the AC is down, people turn around and head to the old camps like clockwork, so the issue is obviously not the difficulty/tactics of old mobs, it's exp bonus (and/or travel convenience), neither of which have anything to do with shihei.

[Almalexia]

Where, exactly, is the gaggle of endgame events where people are required to /NIN?

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...alvage_top.jpg
and
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...01-2007%29.jpg
...at least in my experience.

[ronin sparthos]

Dont forget Einherjar~

[Septimus]

Good lord... Parsers?

Sage Sundi said "Let there be Wut", and Vana'diel was born. From the dust of Vana'diel, Sage Sundi created the JPs, and used their ribs to make the NAs. Sage Sundi told them not to eat from the Tree of Parsing of Awesome and Gimp. The JPs happily ignored the Tree, but the NAs were tempted by the serpent to eat the fruit, and thusly all were cast out of the Garden of I Don't Know, to wander the land forever.

I remember back before parsing came out. Everyone thought that DRK, SAM, DRG (pre-Pentanerf), and RNG were the end-all-be-all of melee damage because they did OMGBBQKittens damage on weaponskills and hated MNK and WAR because their weaponskills sucked. Then suddenly people realized that there was such a thing as "DoT Damage", aka, the damage between weaponskills. What a wacky concept!

[Spider-Dan]

Where, exactly, is the gaggle of endgame events where people are required to /NIN?

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...alvage_top.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...01-2007%29.jpg

Salvage I'll give you, though that's kind of a unique situation; since MNK is effectively a main tank for much of Salvage, subbing NIN isn't exactly the same as it would normally be for a DD elsewhere. Nyzul is similar to a low-manned Limbus, so /NIN usage will apply to similar configurations. But again, that isn't a case of blind /NIN sheeple as it is a case of "sh*t is situational." Pathos is about as far as you can get from a standard scenario, and low-man endgame events where people are expected to do a bit of everything is not a balance flaw, any more than BLMs subbing WHM so they can throw out backup status cures is broken.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

I remember back before parsing came out. Everyone thought that DRK, SAM, DRG (pre-Pentanerf), and RNG were the end-all-be-all of melee damage because they did OMGBBQKittens damage on weaponskills and hated MNK and WAR because their weaponskills sucked.

So sayeth the Brady Bible.

lolwar

[Tonko]

lolyou

Go away.