Opinions for Job Adjustments

[Max™]

You forgot Shield Break on the Great Axe good WS list. I mean hell, not like having ridiculous accuracy while eating attack food when there is NO accuracy gear available isn't cool or anything.

As for Blus, you get Homam gear, as one of the melees who doesn't, and from all the rest of us who don't, shut the fuck up.

I would stomp a kitten for Homam Feet on Warrior, Triple proc Steel Cyclone's would be pretty sweet too.

[Isiolia]

If Ridill did not occasionally hit two to three times, would Warriors use it? Does WAR/NIN with Ridill/Joyeuse out-parse one with Maneater/Ridill because of the extra hits? Seiryu's Sword has a DPS of 11.25, which Ridill has a DPS of 10.17- how many WARs use Seiryu's Sword over a Ridill?

Part of the reason for that though is that WAR's sword skill is what it is.

From a pure DPS standpoint, swords are quite similar to axes. A Perdu Hanger is, technically, higher DPS than a Maneater. As is Seiryu's Sword. Both are also higher DPS than a Woodville's.

The multi-hit factor makes a Ridill or even a Joyeuse effectively a higher DPS than the simple damage/delay would indicate. But compare apples to apples with single-hitters and things really are pretty comparable.
IMO, were the two skill caps swapped, and WARs had B Axe and A- sword, even aside from Ridill, you'd see swords being used a lot more. Vorpal Blade isn't quite Rampage, but still...

[LD]

As for Blus, you get Homam gear, as one of the melees who doesn't, and from all the rest of us who don't, shut the fuck up.

I would stomp a kitten for Homam Feet on Warrior...

............

[Redshift]

I tend to ignore Maxaru, really... It's best everyone does.

[Maxxthepenguin]

You forgot Shield Break on the Great Axe good WS list. I mean hell, not like having ridiculous accuracy while eating attack food when there is NO accuracy gear available isn't cool or anything.

As for Blus, you get Homam gear, as one of the melees who doesn't, and from all the rest of us who don't, shut the fuck up.

I would stomp a kitten for Homam Feet on Warrior, Triple proc Steel Cyclone's would be pretty sweet too.

Funny you didn't mention homam legs

[Xno Kappa]

You forgot Shield Break on the Great Axe good WS list. I mean hell, not like having ridiculous accuracy while eating attack food when there is NO accuracy gear available isn't cool or anything.

As for Blus, you get Homam gear, as one of the melees who doesn't, and from all the rest of us who don't, shut the fuck up.

I would stomp a kitten for Homam Feet on Warrior, Triple proc Steel Cyclone's would be pretty sweet too.

Funny you didn't mention homam legs

I was thinking the same exact shit.

[FinalJustice]

The big three can do just as good on BC "HNM" (if you can even consider them HNMs) besides a select few, ouryu and bahaV2 comes to mind. And I don't even know why you're complaining if you don't do HNMs that actually matters.

And I dont know why you think i dont do HNM in your eyes that matter. ENDGAME content involves a hell of Lot more then Aery, Sorrow, Dominion, lolRange, Chasm, and lolTomb (things i fought countless times and still do). Speedbelt wyrm, is just as much a "hard notorious monster" as Onryuu, and Bahamut. Does something have to have uber drama and be camped before it is considered an endgame hard notorious monster? I dont even know what your argument is about...

The "big 3" do not do "just as good" endgame. They only one that does just as good is Cannonball. And the rest are "ok". And everyone knows it. And is the exact reason no one ever "desires" blu endgame because so many other melee do it better, except for the few hnms they want you to spam cannonball on, cause no one is meleeing it.

[Chupunpupun]

The big three can do just as good on BC "HNM" (if you can even consider them HNMs) besides a select few, ouryu and bahaV2 comes to mind. And I don't even know why you're complaining if you don't do HNMs that actually matters.

And I dont know why you think i dont do HNM in your eyes that matter. ENDGAME content involves a hell of Lot more then Aery, Sorrow, Dominion, lolRange, Chasm, and lolTomb (things i fought countless times and still do). Speedbelt wyrm, is just as much a "hard notorious monster" as Onryuu, and Bahamut. Does something have to have uber drama and be camped before it is considered an endgame hard notorious monster? I dont even know what your argument is about...

The "big 3" do not do "just as good" endgame. They only one that does just as good is Cannonball. And the rest are "ok". And everyone knows it. And is the exact reason no one ever "desires" blu endgame because so many other melee do it better, except for the few hnms they want you to spam cannonball on, cause no one is meleeing it.

Tell me what is "endgame" then cause you've only mention wyrm which has lower evasion, def and HP among other things.

[FinalJustice]

Then you need to go back, and read again, because i sure as hell listed more then Wyrm AS being something that is considered ENDGAME. So what are you talking about at this point or do you even know?

[Chupunpupun]

Then you need to go back, and read again, because i sure as hell listed more then Wyrm AS being something that is considered ENDGAME. So what are you talking about at this point or do you even know?

I'm just waiting for you to bust out Dynamis, Limbus, KS30s, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, Assault, and many other timed events cause world events isn't endgame. And if you're a full time BLU, I should remind you that there are magical spells that scale beautifully on ouryu, fafnir, wyrm, etc but I guess you're just another BLU that only know of the big 3.

[Charismatic]

and what spells might these be?

[Chupunpupun]

and what spells might these be?

heat breath, eyes on me, mind blast, frost breath.

[FinalJustice]

I listed all that already, and since when isnt king camping endgame? Are we going to argue about semantics now? While you're at it, let me remind you that the conversation was about PHYSICAL blu spells (and melee since ppl were talking about SWORDS and RIDILLS and Blus low DOT endgame) and why Blu lack zerg power for endgame activities and will take a back seat to everyone else in most cases. No one was talking about magical blu spells, which also do not allow blu to zerg and dont solve its endgame short comings (which is what this conversation was about since you cant get that). SO i guess youre one of those guys who cant read. Since you like to assume stuff and pull arguments and points out the sky.

[Chupunpupun]

Blu sucks on HNM cause the 3 muti-hit spells suck and must take a backseat on HNM

Nope, BLU does just fine if you knew how to play it. If you've actually played WAR doing HNM (ones that matter) you would know you ain't throwing down 800-1.5k rampages like in merits unless you full buff with MS, hell you'll be lucky to break 600.

2h melee owns blu's damage yadi yadi

With the exception to SAM and maybe DRK using spinning slash, go ahead and try to do a WS without SA with 2h'd weapon. You might be surprise on how many 300-500 you'll see.

why it has no zerg power, is because on most things only 2 spells are decent, and one really really need SA. VC is severely less powerful on HNM then 2 hander WS.

Really on most things, I count more stuff BLU can zerg than they can't but I'm not gonna list them cause I already have. Don't be butt hurt cause you can't run up to tiamat and cast the 3 muti-hit spells for a total of 3k.

Look at MNKs who tank and dmg Salvage bosses. Asuran fist seems to do pretty well to me

No it doesn't, if you've actually seen a MNK tank a salvage boss and not read about it on the forums, you would know it does 300-500 damage. They keep hate mainly with their dot genius. And before you start arguing how BLU ain't got DoT to do what a MNK does, then you should remember all the stuff blu can do while mnk can't.

Yet if a Blu used hysteric Barrage on the same thing, he's lucky to break 200 dmg if that.

Maybe because they had to get 100%TP to get that 300-500 damage while you can just cast it with 79mp.

Does something have to have uber drama and be camped before it is considered an endgame hard notorious monster? I dont even know what your argument is about...
The "big 3" do not do "just as good" endgame. They only one that does just as good is Cannonball. And the rest are "ok". And everyone knows it. And is the exact reason no one ever "desires" blu endgame because so many other melee do it better, except for the few hnms they want you to spam cannonball on, cause no one is meleeing it.

What's endgame then?
Limbus? BLU owns that shit including Omega. And Ultima with magical spells
Dynamis? BLU does just as good as any melee with self curing, haste, stun, etc,etc
Salvage? BLU requires too many cells to operate but can drop the best spike damage
Einherjar? BLU does just as good as any melee
Sky? Don't kid yourself
Sea? BLU owns it with the ability to switch between physical and magical

So what if the convo is about BLU's lack of DOT, crappy damage with the big 3 on world hnms. They can swap on eyes on me, mind blast, heat breath build and put down just as much damage. I get it, you don't want to make magical build for harder HNMs so you whiny about how physical spells are useless and needs a massive buff so you can do three 1k damage spells every 40sec on tiamat.

P.S. Back to camping NH.

[FinalJustice]

Blu doesnt OWN shit, its out classed by everyone else on most endgame bosses/hnm, and until you show new data to debunk what everyone else already posted before, youre full of shit.

You lost all credibility when you dare said blu OWNS omega. Blu does "OK" on omega, Mnks and Sams do better, and thats a fact.

Einherjar?

on the regular mess yea, but not on bosses, its back to Cannonball, or SA VC. It STILL lacks zerg power on those bosses. (which is what the argument was about)

Dynamis? BLU does just as good as any melee with self curing, haste, stun, etc,etc

Yes because self curing and stunning is what everyone was talking about....

Salvage? BLU requires too many cells to operate but can drop the best spike damage

Congrats on missing the point genius!!

Sky? Don't kid yourself

Yes Because I was talking about some pop holder...

Sea? BLU owns it with the ability to switch between physical and magical

With the exception of a jailer, what does blu OWN on huh? Yes because its ability to swap between physical and magic make it own in regards to what was being discussed before you derailed the argument.

Nope, BLU does just fine if you knew how to play it. If you've actually played WAR doing HNM (ones that matter) you would know you ain't throwing down 800-1.5k rampages like in merits unless you full buff with MS, hell you'll be lucky to break 600.

Yet youre lucky to break 150 with Dissv,so whats youre point? If a Blu could pop 500-600 dmg Dissv and Frentic rips, hardly no one wwoudl complain about them. Where did I say I wanted a Blu to be able to pop 1k+ Diss liek at merit???? Being able to pop 500-600 dmg physical spells without the need for SA would do wonders for blu endgame. And if there was "better" lvl correction on its spells you would see just that.

Really on most things, I count more stuff BLU can zerg than they can't but I'm not gonna list them cause I already have. Don't be butt hurt cause you can't run up to tiamat and cast the 3 muti-hit spells for a total of 3k.

Then list all the shit Blu can ZERG endgame, better then everyone else, that doesnt involve "minions" on youre way to the boss. Go ahead. Youre talking out of your ass. We're talking about Blus lack of zerg power endgame. Not about how you can do the same current dmg with a magic build. NO amount of EoM, or MB, HB Builds will change that. In fact your Zerg is reduced with the proper EoM, or MB, since youd most likely have a staff. What part of your ignorance wont let you see that you are arguing about something no one is talking about??? You insist on arguing about stuff no one is talking about... but hey go ahead and post more crap in your attempt to save face.

Since when did Curing, and debuffing become apart of the argument?? Grasping straws ftw. Youre just one of the retarded Blus who in his mind thinks he is more "awsome" then he really is.

With the exception to SAM and maybe DRK using spinning slash, go ahead and try to do a WS without SA with 2h'd weapon. You might be surprise on how many 300-500 you'll see.

I like how you try to narrow the conditions to be in your favor, bravo. WHy cant SAM be apart of the equation? Because everyone KNOWS it doesnt need SA to do well? Why would i want to discount that? Do you forget it Much higher melee dot too? So youre saying Out of a DRG, SAM, DRK, and GA WAR, only the SAM, and MAYBE DRK can break 300 dmg with no SATA?

Maybe because they had to get 100%TP to get that 300-500 damage while you can just cast it with 79mp.

By that stupid logic a BLM should have reduced dmg nukes because a melee has to wait for
100TP... not to mention TP is virtually unlimited as long as youre fighting where in MP youll run out.

No it doesn't, if you've actually seen a MNK tank a salvage boss and not read about it on the forums, you would know it does 300-500 damage. They keep hate mainly with their dot genius. And before you start arguing how BLU ain't got DoT to do what a MNK does, then you should remember all the stuff blu can do while mnk can't.

Oh so now we are gonna argue about the amount of dmg meant by the words "pretty well"... 500 dmg from Asuran Fists sound "pretty well" to me. Now if you want to argue about "pretty well" feel free to, because no one cares.
Maybe your point would matter if i used the words "FANTASTIC". The argument was never about being able to DOT for DOT a mnk dumb ass. NOw you want to bring in Curing, debuffing, and buffin and mu ability to stun up again? God you suck at reading what a conversation is about.

[Max™]

While I did skip over having Haidate, I also forgot Homam Hands, Acc+Haste again, and Body would make some fun SS's with triple proc Steel Cyclones, plus, Homam is nice looking, and I can't simply wardrobe it on, silly PS2.

As for doing 300-500 Dmg on mobs above merit level, especially with a 2h weapon, your melees suck... suckity suckity suck suck suck.

Yes, TP is easy to get, but the big strength of Blm, and Blu in many cases, is not having to TP to do said damage.

Once I get 100 Tp, I've given what, 130-140 to the mob? I forget exactly how the calcs work out, but man it sure rocks having mobs with potentially horrible WSes being able to spam them every few seconds huh.

[LD]

Yea, on the mobs that you don't want to melee, it's a caster's game. But there are more than enough HNM that you wont mind a bit of TP on, and that's when SAM & DRK pull ahead by leaps and bounds (more DRK than SAM, but there you go).

Also, Adaberk and Ridill. Now, fuck off with that homam body horseshit.

[FinalJustice]

Well yea, on mobs you dont want melee on, Casters win hands down. And blu wins that one by default in terms of other DDs. Which goes back to:

...lack of sustainable output via spells would do wonders for making it wanted for something other than Cannonball on a handful of HNMs.

Every Blu would be doing Cartwheels in the street if their spells like FR could do 500-600 dmg without SATA on Cerberus or something. And would probably be a small adjustment on SE's end. As opposed to more drastic changes.

[LD]

Frankly, I think there are better ways to help BLU on HNM than a (physical) damage formula change or a straight boost to multi-hits (the only change multi-hit spells need is to give TP like WSs, full TP for the first hit, 0 for the rest).

The spells that are mainly used for HNM just need a boost in reliability and effeciancy, and that can be done in ways other than a massive spell overhaul or attacking level correction.

[FinalJustice]

But wouldnt enhancing CB and VC be about the same thing? But just focused on those spells instead? I mean why not also enhance the reliability and effeciancy of Disserv too? Unless you are also talking about magical spells too. Like Dmg vs MP cost? But that would be also similar and probably even more massive dont you think?

What are you idea's on how to fix its zerg capabilities without touching multihit spells? I mean, im all for ways to fix it. I just figured that way would be the most simple solution as opposed to inventing swords the game doesnt already have and such, or giving it a Ridill.